Averroes
Active Member
I love how you dodged my other responses. Typical Christian
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
When Christ says only though him one can reach Heaven, what does that mean precisely?
- Thread starter HeretoPhilosophize
- Start date
I love how you dodged my other responses. Typical Christian
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
Averroes
Active Member
do we?
thats news to me
Of course...I cannot count how many times I've read the "Watch Tower" readings....
I am intrigued by JW faith and I make an effort to always get the book whenever they pass them out. Many out here subscribed to the 144,000 lucky faithful that will go to heaven...I think I have the numbers right.
Villager
Active Member
That type of comment is unacceptable in a Christian. Never mind drowning people.
Ahem.
It is plain that I didn't dodge those comments, which were anyway unrelated to the issue under consideration, and deserved to be deleted, so this sort of reply to what was already an indulgent one is hardly the stuff of an educational forum.
I wrote that the perception of some is that Christians never commit the sort of deeds that are claimed for them in your post. Both perceptions cannot be true, because they are mutually exclusive. That fact is inescapable to anyone who has much grasp of the English language, so it is for you to explain yourself. An apology may well seem in order; if only for the sarcasm.
On the issue of Christian character, it was just my word against yours, though of course you have now not only made a false accusation against a poster, but also accused Christians without evidence, which may be an attempt to smear, and is out of place, anyway. So the evidence so far is that my version is the correct one. But there is an external authority that may well convince readers- if there are any who are unaware of what that authority indicates in that matter, which seems unlikely.
Anyone who has read the only agreed source book for Christianity is aware that my version of Christian character reflects the moral values that are insisted upon in that source. Anyone who has read the only agreed source book for Christianity is aware that your version of Christian character reflects moral values that are totally prohibited among Christians in that source. Christians are not even permitted by that source to eat with people who call themselves Christians, but allow that such deeds are acceptable. In particular, that source indicates that those who take slaves are due for eternal punishment. It seems ironic if one who claims to have suffered from slave-taking reviles one of the earliest pronouncements, if not the earliest, against it.
Moreover, that source indicated that there would be many claiming to have Christian faith but would act so badly as to give that faith a bad name, perhaps even with that end in view. It seems particularly perverse, though predictable, if people read that prediction but continue to revile Christianity for antisocial acts. It would be a profoundly antisocial act in itself to do that.
Last edited:
BruceDLimber
Well-Known Member
Arguably either or both!
Spiritual teachings are permanent and never change (though they may be expressed in different wordings).
Social teachings are INTENTIONALLY temporary and are EXPECTED to change from Age to Age whenever a new Divine Messenger comes (but are not properly changeable by us).
Peace,
Bruce
Sorry. I do not understand this.
Villager
Active Member
Then there really are at least two deities.
GabrielWithoutWings
Well-Known Member
How exactly do you view the non-Atonement theologies in the East where Augustine and Anselm are considered lightweights?
Me Myself
Back to my username
According to Jesus, we are all deities.
Me Myself
Back to my username
According to that reasoning, and eternal God never was nor will be.
Villager
Active Member
As heresies. Though that is not to say that Augustine and Anselm were orthodox.
The essential for salvation is acceptance of the offence of the cross. No pain, no gain.
GabrielWithoutWings
Well-Known Member
Interesting. In the East, Atonement theology is considered theologoumena at best.
So if you don't think Augustine and Anselm were orthodox, then who exactly is to you and your church?
Villager
Active Member
As one might expect. It, or rather Protestantism, is detested, to be somewhat more frank. It's that offence of the cross, that Paul cites as bringing persecution, but is hardly mentioned in the East- where the 'church' tends to be established.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
yes, that is what the scriptures say:
Revelation 7:4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel
but i have no idea why our interpreting this as a literal number would mean that we are prophets???
Its not like we pulled this number out of a hat When Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" (Jn. 14:6), He was basically teaching what He had already said in Jn. 3:14-18, "Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."
That is, that for a person to not be condemned to hell, one has to believe that Jesus is God's eternal Son, that He died on the cross to pay for their sins, and that they turn from their sinful living and follow Jesus' teachings. For as Jesus said, those who believe this will not be condemned to hell, but those who do not believe will be condemned i.e. perish forever in hell. Therefore, not everyone will be going to heaven when they die, and not everyone will end up in heaven at the end of the world. But only those who believe in Jesus. For God sets the standard or rules, not us. And so if men and women cannot except God's way then that is sad, but too bad. Because God is God and He will have the last say. Why do you think Jesus said in Matt. 25:31-46? "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, `Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' 37 "Then the righteous will answer him, `Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' 40 "The King will reply, `I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.' 41 "Then he will say to those on his left, `Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' 44 "They also will answer, `Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' 45 "He will reply, `I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' 46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
That is, that for a person to not be condemned to hell, one has to believe that Jesus is God's eternal Son, that He died on the cross to pay for their sins, and that they turn from their sinful living and follow Jesus' teachings. For as Jesus said, those who believe this will not be condemned to hell, but those who do not believe will be condemned i.e. perish forever in hell. Therefore, not everyone will be going to heaven when they die, and not everyone will end up in heaven at the end of the world. But only those who believe in Jesus. For God sets the standard or rules, not us. And so if men and women cannot except God's way then that is sad, but too bad. Because God is God and He will have the last say. Why do you think Jesus said in Matt. 25:31-46? "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, `Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' 37 "Then the righteous will answer him, `Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' 40 "The King will reply, `I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.' 41 "Then he will say to those on his left, `Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' 44 "They also will answer, `Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' 45 "He will reply, `I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' 46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Hi Jethro,
I've stated this before out here, I'm not meaning to be a broken record so if you've read it, I apologize. It's just that this idea represents a logical problem for me, the notion that only those who believe in the teachings of Jesus will "end up in Heaven", and those who don't will "perish forever in hell", as you say.
What about God's creations in this world who have never heard of Jesus or the Bible, what do you think happens to them? I'm talking human beings who were just born into a certain region of the world where they were not exposed to christianity, and therefore through no fault of their own, never have the chance to decide to follow Jesus, or not. Would God create entire civilizations of people fated to "perish forever in hell"?
BruceDLimber
Well-Known Member
Definitely not!
The One God is the deity of ALL the major religions (though the name may vary)!
Peace,
Bruce
Averroes
Active Member
yes, that is what the scriptures say:
Revelation 7:4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel
but i have no idea why our interpreting this as a literal number would mean that we are prophets???
Wow I actually guessed that number. Anyway, what were we talking about again?
Villager
Active Member
So there's one, but he's a liar. Or extremely confused.
lunamoth
Will to love
Jesus answered, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (John 14:6)
1. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. (1 John 4: 16b)
2. Jesus is God. (John 10:30)
3. Therefore Jesus is love.
4. The way to God is through love.
Love is the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through love.
1. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. (1 John 4: 16b)
2. Jesus is God. (John 10:30)
3. Therefore Jesus is love.
4. The way to God is through love.
Love is the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through love.