When Christ says only though him one can reach Heaven, what does that mean precisely?

[Villager]

We fully agree about His crucifixion.



I quote an official Baha'i source:

"The crucifixion as recounted in the New Testament is correct. The meaning of the Qur'anic version is that the spirit of Christ was not crucified. There is no conflict between the two."
̶(From a letter written on behalf of the head of the Baha'i Faith to an individual believer, July 14, 1943)

Peace,

Bruce

So is a person saved by faith in the penal subsitutionary atonement of Jesus, or by the five pillars of Islam?

 

[Averroes]

God loves me sooooooo much. So long as I believe in some Jewish guy+2,000 years ago. It's sad I'm not welcomed in God's kingdom because I don't believe in Jesus

 

[Pegg]

God loves me sooooooo much. So long as I believe in some Jewish guy+2,000 years ago. It's sad I'm not welcomed in God's kingdom because I don't believe in Jesus

the Kingdom of God has been handed to Christ... he is the King and it is to him that "every knee must bend in heaven and on earth" in submission of Christs authority.

so if someone is unwilling to accept Jesus, why would God allow that person to be apart of his kingdom?

 

[Averroes]

the Kingdom of God has been handed to Christ... he is the King and it is to him that "every knee must bend in heaven and on earth" in submission of Christs authority.

so if someone is unwilling to accept Jesus, why would God allow that person to be apart of his kingdom?

First off Christianity has been tainted through the influences of various scholars, some with academic intentions others with motives to push their own agenda. If I truly have doubt about Christianity whycan't I discuss this with God in the afterlife? There are billions of solar systems not to mention possible multiverse. I am a dust particle in this whole universe. Of all the planets,stars, galaxies and the various life forms that glorify God in their own way, you're telling me for a simple belief I am not welcomed because I don't believe in a human's interpretation. Rather, I seek God elsewhere?

 

[Villager]

First off Christianity has been tainted through the influences of various scholars, some with academic intentions others with motives to push their own agenda. If I truly have doubt about Christianity whycan't I discuss this with God in the afterlife?

Because there is enough evidence to go on already. If one knows that there has been 'scholarly' taint, if one knows that false claims have arisen, and there can hardly be doubt about it, one knows that there is a genuine article to be appraised, here in this life. Indeed, one's moral sense will drive one to seek it out and appraise it.

But why would one suppose that a deity capable of creating a moral world like this one would act with prejudice when judging one's life? If one has a clear conscience, one has nothing to fear, surely.

 

[Averroes]

Because there is enough evidence to go on already. If one knows that there has been 'scholarly' taint, if one knows that false claims have arisen, and there can hardly be doubt about it, one knows that there is a genuine article to be appraised, here in this life. Indeed, one's moral sense will drive one to seek it out and appraise it.

But why would one suppose that a deity capable of creating a moral world like this one would act with prejudice when judging one's life? If one has a clear conscience, one has nothing to fear, surely.

You really want to know?

I have grown up in a culture where Chriatianity was used as a guise for Eurocentric Imperialism to enslave my ancestors (Africans), not to mentioned used to subdue and rule the Aztecs, Mayans, Native Americans, and other cultures unfortunate enough to encounter these unforgiving people. I have studied the middle ages and how Christianity was used to slaughter thousands of Jews and Bedouin Arabs (Saracens).

I have seen Christianity drown women for the accusation of witchcraft or burned alive-whichever punishment came first. I have seen modern day pastors glorify tragedies as "acts of God." I have seen Muslims state that I cannot reach God if I do not subscribe to Islam. With all the countless stimuli that shows God's seemingly conditional love for this creature how can I NOT have this negative view on these conditional standards God sets in his book.

What is truth when there are so many interpretations?

Which is why I would rather ask God myself.

I truly believe if such a being exist, then surely God is aware of all the contradictory sects and influences these views have on determining one's own belief system.

 

[Villager]

What is truth when there are so many interpretations?

If there are interpretations, there must be some core to interpret. There are some who call themselves Christians who are never violent; never greedy, never jealous, never dishonest, unkind, unjust, lecherous, out of control; never a threat to any— except the violent, the greedy, the dishonest, the lecherous, the unjust, those out of control due to alcohol, drugs or ill temper, those who give common offence. Those people have an interpretation that is worth investigating by those who value peacefulness, concord, self-control, kindness, willingness to forgive, patience, compassion and humility. It is those qualities that they considered precious, that attracted them to Christianity, and it is those same qualities that they exhibit.

 

[atanu]

It can be taken literally because Jesus is the mediator between God and man.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If YOU men had known me, YOU would have known my Father also; from this moment on YOU know him and have seen him.”

Jesus is the only way to approach the Father because Jesus is the Messiah, the one God chose to be the mediator.

I have doubt that many comprehend ".....the truth and the life .............."

That which is Truth and Life in ALL is not a Man like you or me. It is all pervasive Life and Truth within and without every being. Individual who has understood his/her reality (the life itself and the intelligence) as God's son has also understood that the same life and intelligence empowers All.

Whereas, the common christian view seems to be that a select few are privy to Jesus Christ, whom they erroneously consider as a localised person. If that was true then those christians have no way to enter that localised person who is no more there and cannot be found, except in stories of Bible.

In contrast, those who understand that ".....the truth and the life .............." is all pervasive and can be found most easily as one's own life and as one's true wisdom (which is even the source of one's ego that opposes the wisdom), then the meaning of "I Am" is comprehended.

Every man or woman's pure awareness of "I am", unadulterated with attributes of localised body-mind is son of God. Those who have never known the "I am" through meditation, IMO, have not yet found the all pervading Truth and Life.

 

[Villager]

That which is Truth and Life in ALL is not a Man like you or me. It is all pervasive Life and Truth within and without every being.

What or whom the Greeks knew as Logos- whose existence and identity they could deduce from Israelite lore.

Whereas, the common christian view seems to be that a select few are privy to Jesus Christ, whom they erroneously consider as a localised person.

Was a localised person. He is now the 'I am', the Ground of our Being, who is not far from all of us- to borrow another Greek idea, deducible from emigrant Israelite culture. While with us, the Logos, the I am, said that he could not be known by contemplation or by any other means than by committing oneself to him, in gratitude for a clear conscience. To be, it is first necessary not to be.

 

[atanu]

What or whom the Greeks knew as Logos- whose existence and identity they could deduce from Israelite lore.

There you show your preference.

Was

a localised person. He is now the 'I am', the Ground of our Being, who is not far from all of us- to borrow another Greek idea, deducible from emigrant Israelite culture.

That means that every one must know Islaeli culture and language?

If i were to be as parochial as you, i would point out that arrival of Christ was intimated by wise men of east.

 

[atanu]

It is actually against all religious scripture to even think "I am following the correct way" or that "my way is correct" or something similar suggesting involvement of ego will.

"Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. ----Romans 9:14-21 (KJV)
​

 

[atanu]

To be, it is first necessary not to be.

I am sorry to say that in most common christian assertions herein, one can find upholding of "I am correct" and that is opposite of not to be.

 

[Villager]

There you show your preference.

There I show my scholarship. I leave prejudice to others.

That means that every one must know Islaeli culture and language?

Not at all. The nearness and consciousness of God is not dependent on language. It is part of consciousness itself.

If i were to be as parochial as you

My boundaries exceed the cosmos, space-time. You?

i would point out that arrival of Christ was intimated by wise men of east.

Then wisdom of one sort or another does seem to be widespread.

 

[Villager]

It is actually against all religious scripture to even think "I am following the correct way" or that "my way is correct" or something similar suggesting involvement of ego will.

"Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. ----Romans 9:14-21 (KJV)​

That is saying no more than that God accepts some, and rejects others. And, as Paul makes abundantly clear, that acceptance or rejection is entirely contingent upon man's sovereign, inalienable decision.

 

[atanu]

There I show my scholarship. I leave prejudice to others.

Ha. Ha. That is what i suggested.

I will however depend on life and wisdom that i know to be God's manifestation to show the way.

And let us part there. Follow your scholarship.

 

[Villager]

I will however depend on life and wisdom that i know to be God's manifestation to show the way.

Those who know, demonstrate.

Follow your scholarship.

There being no other available!

 

[atanu]

Those who know, demonstrate.
There being no other available!

There I show my scholarship. I leave prejudice to others.
Not at all. The nearness and consciousness of God is not dependent on language. It is part of consciousness itself.
My boundaries exceed the cosmos, space-time. You?
Then wisdom of one sort or another does seem to be widespread.

I meant to ask these:

• Do you think that coming to know that one's life and awareness is from God and coming to know and believe that All are powered by the same power (and act on that belief) is unique to christians only? In fact i find that most christians do not have this belief and they appear to act from a stand point of being special.
• Whether this belief is arrived without proper enquiry (in other words scholarship)?

 

[Pegg]

First off Christianity has been tainted through the influences of various scholars, some with academic intentions others with motives to push their own agenda. If I truly have doubt about Christianity whycan't I discuss this with God in the afterlife? There are billions of solar systems not to mention possible multiverse. I am a dust particle in this whole universe. Of all the planets,stars, galaxies and the various life forms that glorify God in their own way, you're telling me for a simple belief I am not welcomed because I don't believe in a human's interpretation. Rather, I seek God elsewhere?

of course you are free to make that choice

but our choices do not always lead us to where we think they will lead us.

How do you even know there is an afterlife so that you will meet God in it? You dont. You are already influenced by the imaginations of the very men you are say you dont want to believe in.

Im telling you right now that you wont find evidence of an 'afterlife' in the scriptures. God never told anyone of his prophets that death leads to life....they all state the same thing... death is the opposite of life. That means your chance to know what God says is right now while you are alive because when you are dead, you will not be conscious that you ever lived at all.

 

[Pegg]

I have doubt that many comprehend ".....the truth and the life .............."

That which is Truth and Life in ALL is not a Man like you or me. It is all pervasive Life and Truth within and without every being. Individual who has understood his/her reality (the life itself and the intelligence) as God's son has also understood that the same life and intelligence empowers All.

Whereas, the common christian view seems to be that a select few are privy to Jesus Christ, whom they erroneously consider as a localised person. If that was true then those christians have no way to enter that localised person who is no more there and cannot be found, except in stories of Bible.

In contrast, those who understand that ".....the truth and the life .............." is all pervasive and can be found most easily as one's own life and as one's true wisdom (which is even the source of one's ego that opposes the wisdom), then the meaning of "I Am" is comprehended.

Every man or woman's pure awareness of "I am", unadulterated with attributes of localised body-mind is son of God. Those who have never known the "I am" through meditation, IMO, have not yet found the all pervading Truth and Life.

the wisdom of man sometimes blinds him to the simple truth of a matter.

 

[Averroes]

of course you are free to make that choice

but our choices do not always lead us to where we think they will lead us.

How do you even know there is an afterlife so that you will meet God in it? You dont. You are already influenced by the imaginations of the very men you are say you dont want to believe in.

Im telling you right now that you wont find evidence of an 'afterlife' in the scriptures. God never told anyone of his prophets that death leads to life....they all state the same thing... death is the opposite of life. That means your chance to know what God says is right now while you are alive because when you are dead, you will not be conscious that you ever lived at all.

No offense but then again you are a Jehovah's Witness.... From what I know of JW, they believe in an afterlife. Anyway thank you for preaching your faith