When Christ says only though him one can reach Heaven, what does that mean precisely?

[Me Myself]

They won't be judged for rejecting someone they never heard of. I believe that while all men do not have the light of Christ, they do have the light of conscience and creation, thus they know when they do wrong and can call on God for forgiveness. God is good, just and fair, all who call upon him may be saved. However, many people worship idols, demons, and do not seek forgiveness of sins but rather love their sins and false gods and will be judged accordingly. If you are worried about them, go or give to missions.

The jews that crucified Jesus were very clearly rejecting him, yet "Forgive them Father, because they don´t know what they are doing".

The way I read it, Jesus won´t shut you out of heaven even if you rejected him.

 

[InChrist]

I believe Jesus' words are to be taken literally. Throughout the scriptures Jesus Christ is revealed as the Savior, meaning that He is the one that saves people from their sins and gives them the gift of eternal life. Good deeds, charitable acts, and forgiveness are all good things, but these do not paid the penalty for the sins each person has committed. Jesus paid for the sins of the world. I believe as the scriptures indicate, it is appointed for men to die once and then comes the judgment ( Hebrews 9:27). I also believe that everyone is given plenty of opportunity to choose to be with Christ and have eternal life, those who reject this gift are not forced into heaven.

 

[javajo]

So, someone can "call on God", and reach Heaven? If someone has not heard of Christ, we can assume they're not a christian. As such, if they call on God, they are calling on their version of God, or God as they understand him to be, and this version of God is likely different than yours, you being a christian. So, wouldn't this person then be chastised for worship of a false God, and not be on the path to Heaven that you describe?

Here is how I understand it. Our conscience tells us when we do wrong. The creation shows forth a Creator. Some who have this light still turn from God and worship the creation rather than the Creator, it is true, but when one calls on God, God accepts them:

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Romans 10:13
God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. Acts 10:34b-35

The jews that crucified Jesus were very clearly rejecting him, yet "Forgive them Father, because they don´t know what they are doing".

The way I read it, Jesus won´t shut you out of heaven even if you rejected him.

My belief is in Acts 2, Peter preached to these same people who crucified Christ and they were "cut to the heart" and 3,000 trusted Christ and were saved. Jesus was clear that those who trust or believe in him are freely saved, but those who ultimately and finally reject him are not because they have not accepted his payment for their sins.

 

[Madtown]

Here is how I understand it. Our conscience tells us when we do wrong. The creation shows forth a Creator. Some who have this light still turn from God and worship the creation rather than the Creator, it is true, but when one calls on God, God accepts them:

I hope you're right, 'cuz this is pretty much how I see it!

 

[Spirited]

Christ certainly says that the only way to heaven is through him in the Bible. However, people interpret that line in varying ways.

- By believing in Christ you go to Heaven (Fundamentalist)

- By following Christs teachings and living an exemplary life, after accepting his blessing you may go to Heaven (more baptist view).

- By taking Holy Communion whenever possible and following Catholic Law, you go to Heaven (Catholic)

Just some examples of what people think that line means.

 

[javajo]

Christ certainly says that the only way to heaven is through him in the Bible. However, people interpret that line in varying ways.

- By believing in Christ you go to Heaven (Fundamentalist)

- By following Christs teachings and living an exemplary life, after accepting his blessing you may go to Heaven (more baptist view).

- By taking Holy Communion whenever possible and following Catholic Law, you go to Heaven (Catholic)

Just some examples of what people think that line means.

I believe if we hear the Gospel:

We hear that all have sinned,
The penalty of sin is death,
Christ paid the penalty, he died,
If we trust him to have done this for us, we are freely and forever saved.

Its as simple as that.

 

[Me Myself]

but those who ultimately and finally reject him are not because they have not accepted his payment for their sins.

Were does he say that?

 

[Spirited]

I believe if we hear the Gospel:

We hear that all have sinned,
The penalty of sin is death,
Christ paid the penalty, he died,
If we trust him to have done this for us, we are freely and forever saved.

Its as simple as that.

The penalty of sin is death? Where are you getting this? The penalty of sin has always been damnation as far as the Bible is concerned. If it's already completely done without any input from us at all, why then must we believe in Christ? That's like "hey I did your dirty laundry, but if you don't believe me then it's not in your drawer", really? I don't really understand why Christians keep saying this.

 

[javajo]

Were does he say that?

John 3:18 says, He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Basically, I believe the Bible says we all have sinned, the penalty of which is death, so Jesus died to pay the penalty for us. If we trust him that he did that, then we are saved, but if we don't, then we must pay the penalty ourselves, i.e. we are not saved.To trust him is completely free. We repent, that is change our minds about how we might save ourselves (or that we might need saving at all) and just trust in his finished work on the cross for the free gift of salvation. He then saves us just as we are, but he doesn't leave us that way. We are now born again babes growing in grace.

 

[javajo]

The penalty of sin is death? Where are you getting this? The penalty of sin has always been damnation as far as the Bible is concerned.

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23

If it's already completely done without any input from us at all, why then must we believe in Christ? That's like "hey I did your dirty laundry, but if you don't believe me then it's not in your drawer", really? I don't really understand why Christians keep saying this.

In John, Jesus says many, many times we must believe in him for eternal life. Its like he is a parachute. But for the parachute to save us, we must believe it will save us and put it on and trust it. We must trust Christ's death to have satisfied God's justice, to have paid our sin-debt in full and believe completely and utterly in him alone. Only then is his death efficacious to us.

 

[Spirited]

John 3:18 says, He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Basically, I believe the Bible says we all have sinned, the penalty of which is death, so Jesus died to pay the penalty for us. If we trust him that he did that, then we are saved, but if we don't, then we must pay the penalty ourselves, i.e. we are not saved.To trust him is completely free. We repent, that is change our minds about how we might save ourselves (or that we might need saving at all) and just trust in his finished work on the cross for the free gift of salvation. He then saves us just as we are, but he doesn't leave us that way. We are now born again babes growing in grace.

So here is a question. If I believe that Jesus was the first coming of the Messiah, an incredible teacher, and I try to follow his advice and teachings with my life, am I saved? If I believe everything that Jesus taught, believe that he died for my sins, but do not believe that he (or anyone else) is God; would another Christian who believes only that Christ is the savior and lives a life of lust and gluttony go to Heaven while I am left behind?

What is your definition of "belief". For can one truly say they believe that Christ was God and the greatest teacher of humankind, yet sin in their daily life? Can one truly say they know Christ yet practice adultery? Why did Christ offer so many lessons, that have survived to this day, if even his own believers need not practice these things. Judas Ascariot certainly believed in Christ though he failed him, why then would it be better that he had never been born? Surely belief in Christ is a prerequisite but not sole requirement for eternal life in paradise.

 

[Me Myself]

John 3:18 says, He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

He never said that then, because those are not Jesus´ words

 

[javajo]

So here is a question. If I believe that Jesus was the first coming of the Messiah, an incredible teacher, and I try to follow his advice and teachings with my life, am I saved? If I believe everything that Jesus taught, believe that he died for my sins, but do not believe that he (or anyone else) is God; would another Christian who believes only that Christ is the savior and lives a life of lust and gluttony go to Heaven while I am left behind?

What is your definition of "belief". For can one truly say they believe that Christ was God and the greatest teacher of humankind, yet sin in their daily life? Can one truly say they know Christ yet practice adultery? Why did Christ offer so many lessons, that have survived to this day, if even his own believers need not practice these things. Judas Ascariot certainly believed in Christ though he failed him, why then would it be better that he had never been born? Surely belief in Christ is a prerequisite but not sole requirement for eternal life in paradise.

I believe we come to Christ just as we are, sinners without any hope of saving ourselves. Salvation is from God to us, that is the direction. We can only accept it. We just bring our sin. When we place our trust fully in Christ to have paid for our sins, and he also gives us his righteousness in place of our own inadequate righteousness, we are freely and forever saved. But...Jesus does not leave us the way we are. He begins to work in us to make us more like him. He corrects us, which can be painful. He has made us a new creation, given us power over sin and helps us grow and mature. While we still have our old sinful nature and will sin, we will never be the same again, we will change day by day.

 

[javajo]

He never said that then, because those are not Jesus´ words

That was Jesus telling Nicodemus how to be born again in John 3.

 

[Me Myself]

That was Jesus telling Nicodemus how to be born again in John 3.

You are right, but on a second reading, he is clearly not talking about himself. He doesn´t say "he send me". He is talking about that part of every one of us that comes from the heaven.

Even more, the says "the son of man" and he is son of no man.

 

[Spirited]

I believe we come to Christ just as we are, sinners without any hope of saving ourselves. Salvation is from God to us, that is the direction. We can only accept it. We just bring our sin. When we place our trust fully in Christ to have paid for our sins, and he also gives us his righteousness in place of our own inadequate righteousness, we are freely and forever saved. But...Jesus does not leave us the way we are. He begins to work in us to make us more like him. He corrects us, which can be painful. He has made us a new creation, given us power over sin and helps us grow and mature. While we still have our old sinful nature and will sin, we will never be the same again, we will change day by day.

I just cannot agree with that. That is years and years of Christian thought ON the Bible attempting to describe how salvation works and I strongly disagree. I have not seen sufficient Biblical evidence to support that claim. I do believe that one must come to the Messiah to receive salvation, but I don't believe that that alone is enough. One has a personal responsibility to stop sinning and improve their life, the Messiah allows that to take place on a more profound level, but none of the responsibility of the individual is alleviated from that.

 

[javajo]

I just cannot agree with that. That is years and years of Christian thought ON the Bible attempting to describe how salvation works and I strongly disagree. I have not seen sufficient Biblical evidence to support that claim. I do believe that one must come to the Messiah to receive salvation, but I don't believe that that alone is enough. One has a personal responsibility to stop sinning and improve their life, the Messiah allows that to take place on a more profound level, but none of the responsibility of the individual is alleviated from that.

I respect your opinion, however the Bible says salvation is a free gift, that once we try to do something or quit doing something to earn it, as Romans 4 says, it is no longer grace, but since we worked for it, it is a debt owed us, and God is a debtor to no man for as Ephesians 2 says, it is not of works lest any man should boast. Christ gets all the glory for our salvation. It says that all our righteousness and good works are as filthy rags to a holy God as far as salvation. God is infinitely holy and one small sin is infinitely offensive to him. Christ paid for ALL our sins so when we trust him all our sins are paid for and he gives us his righteousness in place of our own which is not even close to adequate. Salvation is a free gift, not a wage earned. That's why when we get saved, we are saved eternally and to the uttermost and have full assurance of our salvation and our eternal security, because our faith is in God who saved us, in Christ's finished work on the cross, and not on anything we do. That is why our lives are so radically transformed when we trust alone in Christ alone. If one depends on Christ for salvation, they are on solid ground. When you are trusting in your own merits you're in big trouble. But, well, good luck with that I guess.

 

[BruceDLimber]

So-called 'scriptures' contradict each other....

Only when viewed with prejudice (aka "pre-judging")!

Properly viewed, they form a consistent whole whose differences are INTENTIONAL and EXPECTED as religion evolves from Age to Age! (Quote upon request.)

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Villager]

Only when viewed with prejudice (aka "pre-judging")!

'I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and him crucified.'

'They slew him not nor crucified, but it appeared to them [that he was crucified].'

Please point out prejudice.

 

[BruceDLimber]

'I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and him crucified.'

We fully agree about His crucifixion.

'They slew him not nor crucified, but it appeared to them [that he was crucified].'

I quote an official Baha'i source:

"The crucifixion as recounted in the New Testament is correct. The meaning of the Qur'anic version is that the spirit of Christ was not crucified. There is no conflict between the two."
̶(From a letter written on behalf of the head of the Baha'i Faith to an individual believer, July 14, 1943)

Peace,

Bruce