When Cops Are Indistinguishable From Criminals

[oldbadger]

I'm in Arizona, where it's much much too hot in the summer.

My flag avatar is a big giveaway.

Wow! That sounds really wild!
I've seen too many Westerns.....

 

[Stevicus]

Wow! That sounds really wild!
I've seen too many Westerns.....

It may have been wild at one time, although these days it's pretty hot and boring. It's 104° right now.

As for Westerns, I live less than hour away from Tombstone, where this famous event took place:

Now it's a tourist attraction. People still get shot around here from time to time, though.

 

[Twilight Hue]

We have rights to protect us from the pigs but the ignore those rights, neglect to act on thise rights, and harass, fine, falsely imprison, beat, rape, amd murder with impunity (interesting and infuriating fact, it is NOT illegal in most states for pigs to have sex with those they have detained). We HAVE those rights. The pigs need to learn to respect those rights.

Cops are pretty much allowed to beat people to a pulp and there's nothing that person can do about it. There's no legal allowance made for self-defense for a cop attack on your person.

 

[oldbadger]

It may have been wild at one time, although these days it's pretty hot and boring. It's 104° right now.

As for Westerns, I live less than hour away from Tombstone, where this famous event took place:

Now it's a tourist attraction. People still get shot around here from time to time, though.

That is one of my favourite western films.
I absolutely love the character of Doc Holliday, and was amazed that he survived for quite a few years after those incidents. Wyatt Earp lived until the mid 1940's, didn't he?
All quite amazing folks.

 

[Revoltingest]

Orders rarely do have obvious consequences.
Those cops probably expected to be home and dinner after writing up their statements n stuff.

The boss....
- Go to 123 Easy Street at 5am.
- Break down their front door.
- Don't identify yourselves.
- Brandish weapons.
- If they defend themselves, shoot them.

What could go wrong?
I imagine violent consequences.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Cops are pretty much allowed to beat people to a pulp and there's nothing that person can do about it. There's no legal allowance made for self-defense for a cop attack on your person.

Yup. Its why I keep saying it will not be us versus the military. It will (and is) us against the police. They are not heroes. They are not good guys. They are bullies. They are butcherers. They are sadists. We must not and cannot trust them until they are held accountable, legislators and city councils must put their foot down, trainig must be uniform and not made to portray the job as high stress life and death (its rarely that), the police must never again investigate and pklice the police, and our rights must be held sacrosanct above police actions. They kill us without us posing a very clear, apparent, and obvious danger? They go to prison for long time. And, I will go there, though policing is disproportionately against black people, it's not just black people versus the police, it is all of us versus the police because they murder us all in cold blood. In this case, race really is used to divide, weaken, and conquer.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The boss....
- Go to 123 Easy Street at 5am.
- Break down their front door.
- Don't identify yourselves.
- Brandish weapons.
- If they defend themselves, shoot them.

What could go wrong?
I imagine violent consequences.

If these rioters would firebomb the police stations and the only destroy cars that belong to the police, I don't think I could condemn them or find fault with their actions. At this point, even the good ones who remain silent amd protect the bad ones through inaction are accessories and accomplices to the crimes of the bad ones.

 

[Stevicus]

That is one of my favourite western films.
I absolutely love the character of Doc Holliday, and was amazed that he survived for quite a few years after those incidents. Wyatt Earp lived until the mid 1940's, didn't he?
All quite amazing folks.

Not quite the 1940s, he died in 1929. Things kind of settled down after a while. In Arizona, they taught us about the three C's that made Arizona: Cattle, Copper, and Cotton.

 

[oldbadger]

The boss....
- Go to 123 Easy Street at 5am.
- Break down their front door.
- Don't identify yourselves.
- Brandish weapons.
- If they defend themselves, shoot them.

What could go wrong?
I imagine violent consequences.

That looks like you, going in hard on a late rent payment.
But you just imagine stuff......... you shouldn't work yourself up like that at your age.
I bet you're on tabs for blood pressure.

 

[Revoltingest]

That looks like you, going in hard on a late rent payment.

I'm actually very lax on rent payments.
I gotta get better at that.

But you just imagine stuff......... you shouldn't work yourself up like that at your age.
I bet you're on tabs for blood pressure.

Get'n all worked up is aerobic exercise.

 

[dianaiad]

We have rights to protect us from the pigs but the ignore those rights, neglect to act on thise rights, and harass, fine, falsely imprison, beat, rape, amd murder with impunity (interesting and infuriating fact, it is NOT illegal in most states for pigs to have sex with those they have detained). We HAVE those rights. The pigs need to learn to respect those rights.

what part of wedont when they aer acting properly, and we do if they don"t went woosh?

 

[dianaiad]

Why are we assuming that the cops in that case weren't doing what they were told to do? It's quite possible that they were acting by the book, and the book just happened to be terrible and not very good at dealing with situations like this.

you mean, situations where the cop was immediatly arrested for murde because it looked like he broke all the rules??

 

[Shadow Wolf]

what part of wedont when they aer acting properly, and we do if they don"t went woosh?

Example. Searches and seizures. We are, by the Constitution, granted extensive protections in this area. Do the police care? Do they act in a maner that repsects our rights? Are we protected if we assert we have our rights and demand them? They seatch without just cause, without reasonable suspicion, claim a dog that isn't there smelled something, take whatever they want (foriegners are advised not to carry cash here for that reason), falsely accuse, falsely detain, throw your stuff out and scatter it all over the place, break your stuff, and find nothing.
If they are acting properly the question doesn't apply.

 

[dianaiad]

Example. Searches and seizures. We are, by the Constitution, granted extensive protections in this area. Do the police care? Do they act in a maner that repsects our rights? Are we protected if we assert we have our rights and demand them? They seatch without just cause, without reasonable suspicion, claim a dog that isn't there smelled something, take whatever they want (foriegners are advised not to carry cash here for that reason), falsely accuse, falsely detain, throw your stuff out and scatter it all over the place, break your stuff, and find nothing.
If they are acting properly the question doesn't apply.

If they are acting properly no question applies. The problem is, no matter what, it's the police who are assumed to be acting improperly. And most of the time, they aren't. In this thing with Floyd, the assumption was...the police were acting improperlysy. and the cop was instantly arrested. Instantly. But that doesn't matter, does it? To anybody. It's totally racist. The cop was withe, Floyd was black, therefore the cop could have done nothing right. Because of race.It looks very much as if he broke rules somewhere, and he should have been...AS HE WAS....instantly arrested. But to blame the system that went after him for breaking those rules?

To blame the system for the actions of those who break its rules? I've never figured that out...like blaming the judge for the actions of the shoplifter who appears before him.

And I HAVE (well, my people have, far more egregeiously) been the target of systems that break it''s own rules. The solution is to...go after them in court. Really. it is.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If they are acting properly no question applies. The problem is, no matter what, it's the police who are assumed to be acting improperly. And most of the time, they aren't. In this thing with Floyd, the assumption was...the police were acting improperlysy. and the cop was instantly arrested. Instantly. But that doesn't matter, does it? To anybody. It's totally racist. The cop was withe, Floyd was black, therefore the cop could have done nothing right. Because of race.It looks very much as if he broke rules somewhere, and he should have been...AS HE WAS....instantly arrested. But to blame the system that went after him for breaking those rules?

To blame the system for the actions of those who break its rules? I've never figured that out...like blaming the judge for the actions of the shoplifter who appears before him.

And I HAVE (well, my people have, far more egregeiously) been the target of systems that break it''s own rules. The solution is to...go after them in court. Really. it is.

You apparently missed the part where piggly wiggly knelt down on Floyd's neck, for about 9 minutes, even as he's pleading for help, pleading fir air, and bleeding fron the nose. Whatever he may have done (and resisting does not appear to have been one of those things), what piggly wiggly did was wrong and unjustifiable by any sane or reasonable standards. The cops are not legally allowed to physically abuse in such ways. Their own polocies often have rules against it. Does it matter? Often times no, it doesn't. Fight them in court? Even by the longshot you win, you know have a neon target painted on your back.

 

[Tambourine]

If they are acting properly no question applies. The problem is, no matter what, it's the police who are assumed to be acting improperly. And most of the time, they aren't. In this thing with Floyd, the assumption was...the police were acting improperlysy. and the cop was instantly arrested. Instantly. But that doesn't matter, does it? To anybody. It's totally racist. The cop was withe, Floyd was black, therefore the cop could have done nothing right. Because of race.It looks very much as if he broke rules somewhere, and he should have been...AS HE WAS....instantly arrested. But to blame the system that went after him for breaking those rules?

All I have read on the case so far suggests that they were not "instantly arrested". They were fired on the same day, but charges were not pressed against them until May 29t, as far as I can tell, and so far, out of the four, only one of them has been reported to be in jail.

 

[Tambourine]

You apparently missed the part where piggly wiggly knelt down on Floyd's neck, for about 9 minutes, even as he's pleading for help, pleading fir air, and bleeding fron the nose. Whatever he may have done (and resisting does not appear to have been one of those things), what piggly wiggly did was wrong and unjustifiable by any sane or reasonable standards. The cops are not legally allowed to physically abuse in such ways. Their own polocies often have rules against it. Does it matter? Often times no, it doesn't. Fight them in court? Even by the longshot you win, you know have a neon target painted on your back.

The interesting thing about this case is that apparently two of the officers involved in Floyd's arrest already had an established track record of excessive violence when arresting people. One of them had even stood for trial over it. The trial ended in a money settlement, i.e. no legal admission of guilt by the officer involved.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The interesting thing about this case is that apparently two of the officers involved in Floyd's arrest already had an established track record of excessive violence when arresting people. One of them had even stood for trial over it. The trial ended in a money settlement, i.e. no legal admission of guilt by the officer involved.

Then everyone who has allowed them to continue serving must be held accountable. When there is discord among the troops, the fault lies with those commanding them.
(Really, the whole system needs purged and rebuilt)
And, also, that happens frighteningly often.

 

[Revoltingest]

(Really, the whole system needs purged and rebuilt)

I prefer incrementalism.
(Starting from scratch portends making new unanticipated mistakes.)
But it's gotta happen.

 

[dianaiad]

You apparently missed the part where piggly wiggly knelt down on Floyd's neck, for about 9 minutes, even as he's pleading for help, pleading fir air, and bleeding fron the nose. Whatever he may have done (and resisting does not appear to have been one of those things), what piggly wiggly did was wrong and unjustifiable by any sane or reasonable standards. The cops are not legally allowed to physically abuse in such ways. Their own polocies often have rules against it. Does it matter? Often times no, it doesn't. Fight them in court? Even by the longshot you win, you know have a neon target painted on your back.

I forgot nothing. In fact, I haven't seen the video. and didn't learn about Floyd for about a day. I'm an inpatient at the City of Hope, and have been here for abou two months. I'll remain here for at least another two months, or I die, whichever. The POINT is, the guy broke the rules and was instantly arrested for doing so, which means that while he might be egregiosly wrong, the system evidently, is not. And it is the system, not the cop who did this, which is under attack.

And that, given how fast it responded, that is being unfairly attacked. I, with you, don't like what that cop did....but he did it as an individual and against the rules. Did you miss that part?