When evangelists knock on your door...

[Hockeycowboy]

The ingrouping/outgrouping aspects of it make for a compelling rationalisation, though.

What do you mean? If you don't mind explaining.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

What do you mean? If you don't mind explaining.

I already did. What part didn't you get?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

As opposed to Matthew 23:15, which they tend to ignore.

Do you think that's what Jesus did? Matthew 10:11?
Do you think we "scare" people with a "hell-fire" scenario? (We don't believe in any literal fire, anyways.) Jesus' words @ Matthew 11:28-29, it was a 'refreshing' message he had for people. The same with us.

It's not for nothing that Jesus said, the "good news" of the Kingdom would be preached....and the benefits that God's Kingdom will bring for mankind, is good news!

Take care.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I already did. What part didn't you get?

I thought I highlighted it.
"the ingrouping/outgrouping aspect"....what's that even mean?

How does it "make for a compelling rationalization"?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I thought I highlighted it.
"the ingrouping/outgrouping aspect"....what's that even mean?

How does it "make for a compelling rationalization"?

I already explained it. Did you read the whole thread? When evangelists knock on your door...

 

[suncowiam]

I do the same, because it's better for myself too. This way I show respect for myself, and thereby avoiding to get irritated by them


Would there not be 1 exception, whose intention is not sinister?


Cult definition: In modern English, the term cult has come to usually refer to a social group defined by its unusual religious, spiritual, or philosophical beliefs, or its common interest in a particular personality, object or goal. Wikipedia

Seems you calling them a cult is true. Cult, according to this definition, seems different than normal, but not "negative" to me

They're on my property soliciting cult idealism using children to do so.

Again, you do what you like on your property. Don't tell me what to do on mine.

 

[nPeace]

It helps to know what 'shaking the dust off your feet' would mean to a first century Jew. Hospitality to strangers was the expected custom, where a householder would wash the feet of a guest in his house. Dusty roads = dirty feet. Remember that Jesus washed the feet of his apostles....an act of humility considering that he would be their future King. He wasn't too proud to do that humble task.

So failing to wash the feet of a visitor or to offer refreshments was basically anti-Jewish. This is why Jesus at first told his apostles not to take anything with them because Jewish hospitality could be relied upon to provide basic needs. Only later when hostility surfaced did Jesus tell them to take provisions.

So if a guest was refused entry and left with unwashed feet, the dust was shaken off by the visitor....but they left that doorstep in the hope of finding a friendly face and a listening ear at the next house. (Acts 20:20) They were to search out who was deserving of their message of salvation....certainly not one with an angry fist or a scolding tongue.



Jesus was addressing the Pharisees, whom he said would "not flee the judgment of Gehenna". Erroneously translated "hell" in many Bibles, Jesus was condemning those wicked men to eternal death (the opposite of eternal life). These are the ones whom Jesus said made converts who became subjects of the same fate, more so than themselves.

So those who twist the truth and promote hate speech based on lies are those who will join those Pharisees in their fate. That is not our judgment to make of course.....Jesus is the judge. He sets the standard of behavior. Being hospitable to strangers is a sign of a humble heart. Hostility is just the opposite. It is about respect...from both sides. There never has to be anger if the person calling is just doing their job.

A polite refusal is usually enough, so why do we keep calling? It's because people can change......I have seen it countless times. Family members are sometimes afraid of what other family members will say if they speak to JW 's at their door, so if those family members are absent for some reason, a nice conversation can ensue.....or someone who was hostile may have a pleasant encounter with a Witness elsewhere and change their mind about us.
People move away and another family may move in who like to receive our visits. You'd be surprised at how many people look forward to our chats and enjoy our publications. It gives them hope in a seemingly hopeless world.

If the only ones you listen to are the haters, then you are going to get a very twisted view of who we are and what we do.

As you said...it's about respect....on both sides.

Well put Deeje!
I couldn't have put it any better.

 

[savagewind]

I thought I highlighted it.
"the ingrouping/outgrouping aspect"....what's that even mean?

How does it "make for a compelling rationalization"?

I think I might know what it means. You go door to door to find people who you can put in your group. Anyone who will not convert to your way you put outside your group. You believe that all those who will stubbornly refuse the saving power of being in your group will be refused by God and so they will miss out on all of God's blessings. That is how you rationalize the unnaturalness of what you are doing.

You will say, "we are not putting anyone inside or outside", but that is a lie. It is what you do.

@Kangaroo Feathers Is that close enough?

 

[nPeace]

@Deeje, another thing.... Isn't it sad that people judge an entire group by the actions of a few? Saying, "This is how Jehovah's Witnesses are, or act." Sad.
What's even sadder, is that said persons say they are fair, and not judgmental, and they endeavor to point out these in others.

 

[savagewind]

@Deeje, another thing.... Isn't it sad that people judge an entire group by the actions of a few? Saying, "This is how Jehovah's Witnesses are, or act." Sad.
What's even sadder, is that said persons say they are fair, and not judgmental, and they endeavor to point out these in others.

But "judging an entire group by the actions of a few" is exactly what the Jehovah's Witnesses are being taught to do! Not everyone in the world is bad. So, you say, "it will happen that every person in the world will be bad". You are judging! And, is it sad?

 

[JJ50]

People should not go around proselytising. If they have a faith they should keep it to themselves unless others specifically ask them what they believe and are interested to hear what they have to say.

 

[stvdv]

Again, you do what you like on your property. Don't tell me what to do on mine.

Can you show me where I told you what to do on your property. I usually don't tell people what they should do.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I have often wondered about Messianic Jews as I do not encounter many Jewish people where I live in rural Australia. To have Jews who accept the Messiah is wonderful! But do all Jews believe and teach the same things? How does a Messianic Jew view Judaism for example? Do you see yourselves in much the same way as Jesus' first disciples would have? They saw Jesus as re-establishing the ancient Jewish faith, understanding that the religious leaders over the centuries had corrupted it. They had not corrupted scripture...only the interpretation of it.

Will a Messianic Jew identify as Christian? Do your beliefs clash with those in Christendom?



This is interesting to me. That Jews would accept the trinity. It is not something taught specifically but like you just highlighted, is taken from ambiguous verses that seem to imply a threesome.
That threesome is completely incompatible with the Shema (Deuteronomy 6:4) and also a breach of the First Commandment. Jesus never taught anything that was against Jewish scripture.
Putting the son in equal place with the Father, to an ancient Jew would have been blasphemy! Nowhere is the holy spirit given a name (as Jesus and Jehovah are personal names of two separate and distinct individuals) one of whom called the other "the only true God" without including himself or the holy spirit. (John 17:3) The son is said to be at the right hand of the Father, but there is not a single scripture that places the holy spirit at his left.

There is so much I don't know about Messianic Jews and how they differ from mainstream Christendom....so how do you feel about these things?

Again, it would help discernment if you would ask me what I believe, not what "all of us Christian Jews" believe.

I grew up with a monotheist understanding of the Shema, and would NEVER believe in the trinity if it wasn't a fact. NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER. I was told growing up that the trinity was unbiblical! Does that make sense to you?

The Holy Spirit in Judaism is known as "He who is below [ministering on Earth]". I'm delighted He's not at the left of the throne, although some see Him in the mighty river that flows from the throne.

The Shema uses the word for a "plural oneness", "echad". A man and a woman are ECHAD when they marry. Genesis 2:24. My wife and I are ONE in the same way God is ONE in the shema.

 

[Faithofchristian]

What do you say when members of a religious group (such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses) knock on your door, evangelising?

I currently politely say “sorry, I already have a religion” and leave it as that

But the next time it happens I think I’m going to say something outrageous such as “I don’t need religion, I have a direct line to God” (don’t worry, I don’t believe I have a direct line to God!) or make up a religion and tell them I belong to that

The best way of getting JW's to leave your house, is by telling them, your a Catholic, then watch how fast they leave.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

People should not go around proselytising. If they have a faith they should keep it to themselves unless others specifically ask them what they believe and are interested to hear what they have to say.

That is not what Jesus did. He went looking for others. And wanted his disciples to do the same. Luke 10:1-8

 

[Hockeycowboy]

The best way of getting JW's to leave your house, is by telling them, your a Catholic, then watch how fast they leave.

Why would that work?

 

[stvdv]

Thank you for your generous reply

Remember that Jesus washed the feet of his apostles....an act of humility considering that he would be their future King. He wasn't too proud to do that humble task.

I know Jesus washed the feet of his apostles. Washing the feet is also an important ritual in Hinduism (named Paduka ceremony in my Ashram )
Did Jesus say this? Is this written in the Bible? Hard for me to believe that Jesus would have this feeling "not too proud to do that humble task". My Master did often similar humble tasks, and He was never too proud to do such a humble task. He always said "One should live by example. He was serving others 24/7. But if it says so in the Bible then I don't know, maybe Jesus said it that way ... I hope not though.

 

[stvdv]

It helps to know what 'shaking the dust off your feet' would mean to a first century Jew. Hospitality to strangers was the expected custom, where a householder would wash the feet of a guest in his house. Dusty roads = dirty feet.

So failing to wash the feet of a visitor or to offer refreshments was basically anti-Jewish. This is why Jesus at first told his apostles not to take anything with them because Jewish hospitality could be relied upon to provide basic needs. Only later when hostility surfaced did Jesus tell them to take provisions.

So if a guest was refused entry and left with unwashed feet, the dust was shaken off by the visitor....but they left that doorstep in the hope of finding a friendly face and a listening ear at the next house. (Acts 20:20) They were to search out who was deserving of their message of salvation....certainly not one with an angry fist or a scolding tongue.

Thank you for explaining it in this way. That seems right also; and always good to know and feel how life was in those days; makes it easier to understand why it was written in a certain way and what was meant by it.

I always try to look for other meaning in Bible verses. Many times there are several layers to interpret, so we keep on learning when reading the Bible over and over again. In a way your interpretation seems right. The disciples wore sandals, so when entering a house it seems good habit to wash your feet. But if this is not done, and you are back on the street, it makes not much sense to "shake off the dust", because it is dusty on the street anyway. Of course it would make sense to shake off some marbles or big grains of sand if they are stuck in your sandals, because they hurt when walking. But I think you take of the dust, when you enter a house. That is why I tried to find another meaning to this verse. I mean, Jesus said this, so maybe there is a big message in it. I know my Master always said verses that seemed simple, but when thinking deeper, there were some hidden gems to be found. When I read scriptures I always try to find new gems

 

[stvdv]

A polite refusal is usually enough, so why do we keep calling? It's because people can change......I have seen it countless times. Family members are sometimes afraid of what other family members will say if they speak to JW 's at their door, so if those family members are absent for some reason, a nice conversation can ensue.....or someone who was hostile may have a pleasant encounter with a Witness elsewhere and change their mind about us.
People move away and another family may move in who like to receive our visits. You'd be surprised at how many people look forward to our chats and enjoy our publications. It gives them hope in a seemingly hopeless world.

It makes sense you give it more tries when visiting people. Especially family easily judge other members who want to follow another religion, so indeed they might want some privacy when you come. Many judged my choice to follow my Master.

Jesus was addressing the Pharisees, whom he said would "not flee the judgment of Gehenna". Erroneously translated "hell" in many Bibles, Jesus was condemning those wicked men to eternal death (the opposite of eternal life). These are the ones whom Jesus said made converts who became subjects of the same fate, more so than themselves.

Thank you. It is very important advice to be very careful selecting a teacher, the wrong teacher might guide you wrong, like the pharisees.

 

[stvdv]

If the only ones you listen to are the haters, then you are going to get a very twisted view of who we are and what we do.

As you said...it's about respect....on both sides.

I do not judge only because what others say. I always check out myself. I invited Jehovah Witnesses at home. They came maybe 16 times. And it was a good experience, until they started to belittle my faith. I told them first time they came, that I have a guru who is to me as Jesus is to them. And my guru advises to learn about other religions also, because if one understands the other person, then it's easier not to judge, which is very important on the spiritual path. But my guru also advises to avoid people who judge the feelings/faith of others. So I told them, if you agree to this, then I will be happy to let you in.

They really did well. We had like 12 wonderful evenings. They kept their word. Only in the end they forgot their promise. But I always look at the positive side. I think it was really good they managed 12 hours. We all make mistakes now and then. But when I explained to them, that I told them from the beginning, and that they promised not to belittle, they told me, that they believe this way. So as you will understand, that was the end of our talks.

I have only 1 criteria ... never criticize the feeling/faith of others (I make also mistakes, but will always say sorry when told so). I can understand that others follow different path, so for them it might be okay to criticize feelings/faith of others. And that is okay with me, only I will not continue conversation with them. That is my choice, my path. No hard feelings this way. Important to know from each other those things; otherwise easy to get misunderstandings or even fights or irritation.