When Hate is a Virtue.

[TransmutingSoul]

To remove human hatred is to deal with it truthfully. It can only be healed by humans owned social changes

Yes indeed this is what we each must do.

It is our choices we get to choose Love or hate.

Regards Tony

 

[Bree]

Are you really sure about this? I mean, I think that is quite a claim, and to attribute this to the Bible, so in a way also to Jesus and even to God. I would not claim such

Suppose the claim "hate the bad = a virtue" is false

I hope you just mean "stay the Hell away from the bad in the world", because that I get. No need to hate it though. We have already too much hate going around. Calling it a virtue is definitely a "no go".

Seems even easy to me to disprove this one for debate experts, which I am not, @Subduction Zone is much better at this. I could create a maths formula that clearly shows that "hate what is bad" does not equal "virtue"

Psalm 97:10 "O you who love Jehovah, hate what is bad...

Psalm 119:104 By your orders I act with understanding. That is why I hate every false path.

It is the hatred of what is bad that gave Jesus such a privileged position at Gods right hand.
Heb 1:8 But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne+ forever and ever, and the scepter of your Kingdom is the scepter of uprightness.* 9 You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you+ with the oil of exultation more than your companions.”+

But you are correct in that hating bad things is not a virtue in itself. To be virtuous we really need to pursue things that are good and virtuous.
Although, to hate the things that God considers to bad, is a protection for us. If you hate something, you wont go near it, correct? So hating bad things will protect us from pursing them.

 

[KWED]

I see it that way as well. A rightful hate is a good thing. Senseless hatred is totally different than hate with cause.

The obvious problem is "rightful" and "senseless" are in the eye of the beholder.
One man's "senseless hate" is another man's "righteous hate".
And we are back to square one.

The best thing is to not give in to emotion when dealing with events but instead present considered, rational, reasonable arguments for and against.

 

[KWED]

But taking a strong stands against any form of voilence is an healthy way of living, IMHO.

Indeed. Down with all manner of sheer fabrics!

 

[Spirit of Light]

Indeed. Down with all manner of sheer fabrics!

Huh? What do you mean?

 

[KWED]

Huh? What do you mean?

It was a pun-based joke.
You said you take a strong stand against any form of voilence.
"Voile" is a thin, sheer fabric (like mosquito net).
I'll get my coat...

 

[Spirit of Light]

It was a pun-based joke.
You said you take a strong stand against any form of voilence.
"Voile" is a thin, sheer fabric (like mosquito net).
I'll get my coat...

Ah my bad i did not catch that

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Ah my bad i did not catch that

You were not the only one. I had no idea what was meant either!

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Please note the morals you practice that surpass lists such as these.

"Be generous in prosperity, and thankful in adversity. Be worthy of the trust of thy neighbor, and look upon him with a bright and friendly face. Be a treasure to the poor, an admonisher to the rich, an answerer of the cry of the needy, a preserver of the sanctity of thy pledge. Be fair in thy judgment, and guarded in thy speech. Be unjust to no man, and show all meekness to all men. Be as a lamp unto them that walk in darkness, a joy to the sorrowful, a sea for the thirsty, a haven for the distressed, an upholder and defender of the victim of oppression. Let integrity and uprightness distinguish all thine acts. Be a home for the stranger, a balm to the suffering, a tower of strength for the fugitive. Be eyes to the blind, and a guiding light unto the feet of the erring. Be an ornament to the countenance of truth, a crown to the brow of fidelity, a pillar of the temple of righteousness, a breath of life to the body of mankind, an ensign of the hosts of justice, a luminary above the horizon of virtue, a dew to the soil of the human heart, an ark on the ocean of knowledge, a sun in the heaven of bounty, a gem on the diadem of wisdom, a shining light in the firmament of thy generation, a fruit upon the tree of humility." Baha'u'llah

That is the standard a person of Faith is called to.

Regards Tony

A very high standard. It creates the problem of having religious people talking about these high ideals, and yet they themselves fall way short. Then about hate... some religious people carry their "hate" to the extreme.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

A very high standard. It creates the problem of having religious people talking about these high ideals, and yet they themselves fall way short. Then about hate... some religious people carry their "hate" to the extreme.

One has to have a goal CG. Those ideals were the essence and life of Abdul'baha.

Abdul'baha asked us to look at Him, follow Him and be as he was.

Yes, an intended positive use of hate, can indeed be clothed in hate itself and not achieve a positive outcome.

The balance must be found in all the virtues, a positive use of hate would not compromise virtue.

Regards Tony

 

[osgart]

The obvious problem is "rightful" and "senseless" are in the eye of the beholder.
One man's "senseless hate" is another man's "righteous hate".
And we are back to square one.

The best thing is to not give in to emotion when dealing with events but instead present considered, rational, reasonable arguments for and against.

There are obvious rights and wrongs in reality.

 

[KWED]

There are obvious rights and wrongs in reality.

But they can be different, depending on perspective and context. We see it all the time.
I am having this very conversation elsewhere here. I am saying that slavery and torture are morally wrong. Others are telling me they are not. They seem just as convinced as I am.
So where does that leave us?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But they can be different, depending on perspective and context. We see it all the time.
I am having this very conversation elsewhere here. I am saying that slavery and torture are morally wrong. Others are telling me they are not. They seem just as convinced as I am.
So where does that leave us?

Slavery and torture are wrong.

So that leaves us with consultation and then the determining by a democratic elected body, the law that we will follow based on those values.

Both slavery and torture do not pass the majority virtue test in this age. Regards Tony

 

[osgart]

But they can be different, depending on perspective and context. We see it all the time.
I am having this very conversation elsewhere here. I am saying that slavery and torture are morally wrong. Others are telling me they are not. They seem just as convinced as I am.
So where does that leave us?

Slavery and torture are wrong. Obviously they have an inferior morality.

 

[KWED]

Slavery and torture are wrong.

So that leaves us with consultation and then the determining by a democratic elected body, the law that we will follow based on those values.

Both slavery and torture do not pass the majority virtue test in this age. Regards Tony

So you believe that morality is developed by individuals and societies, not revealed by god.

 

[KWED]

Slavery and torture are wrong. Obviously they have an inferior morality.

Well yes, we say that. But I am accused of having "no morals" simply because I don't believe in god. They claim that any moral judgement I make is necessarily meaningless, including those on slavery and torture.
To the religionist, what god has decreed is "right" and what he has forbidden is "wrong", and there can be no further discussion. And they are absolutely convinced of the validity of that position.
What can ya do?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Well yes, we say that. But I am accused of having "no morals" simply because I don't believe in god.

Untrue.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So you believe that morality is developed by individuals and societies, not revealed by god.

I see they were developed from the Word of God, which is a potential in all of us.

Regards Tony

 

[KWED]

I see they were developed from the Word of God, which is a potential in all of us.

Regards Tony

In what way was the morality of a modern, secular, liberal democracy "developed from the word of god"?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

In what way was the morality of a modern, secular, liberal democracy "developed from the word of god"?

The Word of God is the capacity of Virtues and Morality, that we all have the potential to bring forth.

These are spiritual capacities , they are not tangible.

Abdul'baha offered, "Reason itself is not tangible, perceptible to the senses. Reason is an intellectual verity or reality. All qualities are ideal realities, not tangible realities."

Regards Tony