stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
Can you please explain verse 9:111 for me in that light? And by that, I mean justifying the whole "kill and be killed" thing. Specifically, do I deserve to "be killed"?
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When Hate is a Virtue.
Can you please explain verse 9:111 for me in that light? And by that, I mean justifying the whole "kill and be killed" thing. Specifically, do I deserve to "be killed"?
ppp
Well-Known Member
It doesn't matter what the "Truth of Islam" might be It does not matter whether or not there is a "Truth of Islam." What matters is how the practice of the religion manifests in the real world through the actions of people.
That is applicable to all people, and their willingness so submit to just law while practising all virtues.
The practice of religion is naught but the practice of all God given virtues and following the law applicable to the age.
If people choose not to follow Virtues and Just Law, then it does matter, as the source is not the issue, it is peoples choices that is the issue.
Regards Tony
9:111 with my personal reflections added.
"Indeed, Allah has purchased from the believers their lives and their properties [in exchange] for that they will have Paradise."
This to me is talking about Materialism and Submission to God given virtue and Law, over the material world/choices.
"They fight in the cause of Allah , so they kill and are killed"
The fight is that of a spiritual nature, it is the Word of God against the unbelievers. It is the army of God in Serried lines, fighting the battle with the sword of the tongue.
It is by that Word we are all judged and the unbelievers perish, it is by that Word, the believers are all tested and if found false, also perish.
It is a state of being, the Bible calls this being born again, born from the flesh into the Spirit, the Spirit that is Love.
Happy to expand on more passages in that same light, if you wish.
Regards Tony
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ppp
Well-Known Member
The practice of religion is naught but what people do in the name of their religion. For good or for ill. No more and no less.
There is no religion on earth that does not preach vice. No god described by any religion meets my minimum moral standards.
ppp
Well-Known Member
When someone making your claims can demonstrate that their beliefs comport with reality, then I will disagree, as well. But that day has not yet come.
I personally see that day does come for all of us, either in this life, or upon our passing from this life.
Regards Tony
ppp
Well-Known Member
You are just repeating the same claim over and over. The problem is that there is no reason to believe that you know or are capable of knowing what you are talking about.
Plus, I am more moral than your depiction of your god. Most people are.
Please note the morals you practice that surpass lists such as these.
"Be generous in prosperity, and thankful in adversity. Be worthy of the trust of thy neighbor, and look upon him with a bright and friendly face. Be a treasure to the poor, an admonisher to the rich, an answerer of the cry of the needy, a preserver of the sanctity of thy pledge. Be fair in thy judgment, and guarded in thy speech. Be unjust to no man, and show all meekness to all men. Be as a lamp unto them that walk in darkness, a joy to the sorrowful, a sea for the thirsty, a haven for the distressed, an upholder and defender of the victim of oppression. Let integrity and uprightness distinguish all thine acts. Be a home for the stranger, a balm to the suffering, a tower of strength for the fugitive. Be eyes to the blind, and a guiding light unto the feet of the erring. Be an ornament to the countenance of truth, a crown to the brow of fidelity, a pillar of the temple of righteousness, a breath of life to the body of mankind, an ensign of the hosts of justice, a luminary above the horizon of virtue, a dew to the soil of the human heart, an ark on the ocean of knowledge, a sun in the heaven of bounty, a gem on the diadem of wisdom, a shining light in the firmament of thy generation, a fruit upon the tree of humility." Baha'u'llah
That is the standard a person of Faith is called to.
Regards Tony
ppp
Well-Known Member
You disdain gay relationships. Yes, you hide this disdain behind flowery words of love and acceptance. But in all practical living-ones-life ways, you claim it is wrong. You disdain it.
You have no idea how I see the subject, you have never asked me.
I have a child that is in a same sex relationship.
I will only offer that on this topic, in this OP.
Regards Tony
ppp
Well-Known Member
Your quote was Baha'i. Not personal. I replied in that vein. 'You' is the second person plural. If it makes you feel more comfortable, replace 'you' with y'all.
ppp
Well-Known Member
Which ideals?
All the best, Regards Tony
Very interesting and thought provoking question Tony.
Maybe I’ll try asking it another way. Is it our lack of humanity’s belief in the oneness of mankind that allows oppression to continue or is it we don’t have enough hate for dictators?
When it is pitch dark do we get rid of the darkness with darker thoughts or a light?
I know what you mean just hate is such a negative word. I was thinking more along the lines of having a strong sense of justice to fight injustices which the world currently lacks.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
The inherited human life behaviours.
Family once tribal. Wandered and food gathered. Families scattered as community and working was mutual.
Brother began enforced civilisation design his ownership of family. He didn't want to toil himself. Family forced to grow food near them. Became his slave.
The human life teaching.
Family wandered would come and take toiled grown food. Angered the brother. So he murdered them saying they were stealing. Like him they were lazy and didn't want to travel long distances to get food was his belief.
How we began to form human hate. A hate for our human family.
So wise grand parents would meet and try to waylay the human problem civilization had introduced. Gluttony and greed.
Life became what it has as invention was not for life safety it was for human greed only. As many inventions supported a healthy life and healthy nature. Ignored designs.
So we hated science and scientists and rich men. Who made us their slave. Until human law was implemented.
Rich man then paid criminals to do crimes that paid bad human behaviour and mutually supports bad human behaviour by rewarding it.
So they contradicted what they had chosen and introduced to support family.
Human hatred of rich man inventor is now acute. As he pays to own bad human criminal behaviour and rewards it. Claiming it's how he controls everything.
So human law failed.
Human hatred and its owned historical evolution. Karmic.
Can we be notified of human hatred to become successful?
In reality one condition totally opposes the other. And it was Introduced by its human inventor.
To remove human hatred is to deal with it truthfully. It can only be healed by humans owned social changes.
As the inventor says once we owned the human need to work and to be naturally rewarded by families mutual wealth in life health and food and community. Is known human spirituality.
Was being taught mutual spirituality.
The inventor has taken that natural humans purpose to be taught by enacting the behaviours away from our natural life.....as has the rich man.
It's all the fault of the men of science and as life was never a problem to be fixed by maths as a problem solver is your advice.
You caused the beginning of an artificial human life yourself. Behaviours is the fact of your evidence...a non mutual or naturally taught human advice.
You inherit all causes of any evil man's choice you ever chose.
As the choice was direct and in the moment only. Any choice was where it needed to be rationalised.
If you say I want to be lazy then let everyone be lazy too...yet your claim I invented. You need to give us the lazy man's lifestyle too. To think and not naturally act.
To claiming thinking is more important than real life.
Instead you demean our human purpose. You claim once domain robitic is established you won't need humans slavery. Human family I won't need he knows is his subject.
By that term all your hateful human inventive theorising said no human life hence would exist as your thesis.
As you own no intention of allowing your type of human lifestyle to be everyone else's. And you also just want a small human society served by robots. Who you claim by hierarchy is a truth.
Which in real human intelligence is totally illogical as you are human family also. As a human became rich by the sacrifice suffering of human family.
Forcing human's to own no natural purpose will increase human hatred and destruction as behaviours.
Saying being poor is because of introduced technology is a ridiculous chosen theme. As humans might be button pushers now... yet in the future you want robots doing it.
As if we can't have your lifestyle then what human answer for humans do you inventor own?
Natural life and live
Family once tribal. Wandered and food gathered. Families scattered as community and working was mutual.
Brother began enforced civilisation design his ownership of family. He didn't want to toil himself. Family forced to grow food near them. Became his slave.
The human life teaching.
Family wandered would come and take toiled grown food. Angered the brother. So he murdered them saying they were stealing. Like him they were lazy and didn't want to travel long distances to get food was his belief.
How we began to form human hate. A hate for our human family.
So wise grand parents would meet and try to waylay the human problem civilization had introduced. Gluttony and greed.
Life became what it has as invention was not for life safety it was for human greed only. As many inventions supported a healthy life and healthy nature. Ignored designs.
So we hated science and scientists and rich men. Who made us their slave. Until human law was implemented.
Rich man then paid criminals to do crimes that paid bad human behaviour and mutually supports bad human behaviour by rewarding it.
So they contradicted what they had chosen and introduced to support family.
Human hatred of rich man inventor is now acute. As he pays to own bad human criminal behaviour and rewards it. Claiming it's how he controls everything.
So human law failed.
Human hatred and its owned historical evolution. Karmic.
Can we be notified of human hatred to become successful?
In reality one condition totally opposes the other. And it was Introduced by its human inventor.
To remove human hatred is to deal with it truthfully. It can only be healed by humans owned social changes.
As the inventor says once we owned the human need to work and to be naturally rewarded by families mutual wealth in life health and food and community. Is known human spirituality.
Was being taught mutual spirituality.
The inventor has taken that natural humans purpose to be taught by enacting the behaviours away from our natural life.....as has the rich man.
It's all the fault of the men of science and as life was never a problem to be fixed by maths as a problem solver is your advice.
You caused the beginning of an artificial human life yourself. Behaviours is the fact of your evidence...a non mutual or naturally taught human advice.
You inherit all causes of any evil man's choice you ever chose.
As the choice was direct and in the moment only. Any choice was where it needed to be rationalised.
If you say I want to be lazy then let everyone be lazy too...yet your claim I invented. You need to give us the lazy man's lifestyle too. To think and not naturally act.
To claiming thinking is more important than real life.
Instead you demean our human purpose. You claim once domain robitic is established you won't need humans slavery. Human family I won't need he knows is his subject.
By that term all your hateful human inventive theorising said no human life hence would exist as your thesis.
As you own no intention of allowing your type of human lifestyle to be everyone else's. And you also just want a small human society served by robots. Who you claim by hierarchy is a truth.
Which in real human intelligence is totally illogical as you are human family also. As a human became rich by the sacrifice suffering of human family.
Forcing human's to own no natural purpose will increase human hatred and destruction as behaviours.
Saying being poor is because of introduced technology is a ridiculous chosen theme. As humans might be button pushers now... yet in the future you want robots doing it.
As if we can't have your lifestyle then what human answer for humans do you inventor own?
Natural life and live
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
The depth of your denial cannot be measured.
I see no reason to continue this.
It could also be seen as a Just and Honest exploration of what it is to have Faith in Muhammad and Allah. An exploration of full submission unto Allah.
Have a great life, be happy stay well.
Regards Tony