When I Die

[Draka]

I’m afraid the above list is skewed. No one is all good.

Please list a few mean, unkind, and just plain bad-type things you’ve done.

Well, I'm not legally married. I thought that was considered a no-no by some people.

I tried acid once.

What do you consider mean or unkind or bad? I can be blunt and come off as rude sometimes. Does that count?

I'm actually wracking my brain here, but don't know what to say. Other than speeding I've commited no crimes. I've never even been in a physical fight with anyone unless you count my ex-husband who used to beat on me...but I wasn't the aggressor and only ever fought back to defend myself really.

I picked on my brother when I was a kid.

I've flashed my breasts in a bar a few times a few years ago.

I swear.

Honestly though, I'm a stay-at-home-mom now, it's not like I have any opportunity to go on a "behaving badly" streak even if I wanted to.

 

[Kcnorwood]

before you start to refute someone, why don't you get your head out of a rock or a stone henge and say something actually constructive- not become defensive yourself

First of all I love how you avoid the issues. Satanism & Wicca are totally different things but sence you have your head stuck in the sand I can see where you don't know the differences. Even if Crowley & Gardner knew each other that means nothing. Wiccan is a part of the Pagan umbrella so in effect your attacking my belifes as well. It's really sad when people think they know something,when in fact all they know is what someone else had told them.

 

[Kcnorwood]

I’m afraid the above list is skewed. No one is all good.

Please list a few mean, unkind, and just plain bad-type things you’ve done.

She never said she was perfect no one is but she was defending herself.

 

[tennis_hero]

First of all I love how you avoid the issues. Satanism & Wicca are totally different things but sence you have your head stuck in the sand I can see where you don't know the differences. Even if Crowley & Gardner knew each other that means nothing. Wiccan is a part of the Pagan umbrella so in effect your attacking my belifes as well. It's really sad when people think they know something,when in fact all they know is what someone else had told them.

My apologies good sir.

Satanism and Wicca are indeed different.

Gardner did more then just "know" Crowley.

“There are indeed certain expressions and certain words used which smack of Crowley; possibly he borrowed things from the cult writings, or more likely someone may have borrowed expressions from him” – Gerald B. Gardner, “Witchcraft Today”, 1954.

He has been accused of wholesale copy of Crowley in his works.

of Crowley in his 1934 court case which he lost and had to declare bankruptcy

I have been over forty years engaged in the administration of the law in one capacity or another. I thought that I knew of every conceivable form of wickedness. I thought that everything which was vicious and bad had been produced at one time or another before me. I have learnt in this case that we can always learn something more if we live long enough. I have never heard such dreadful, horrible, blasphemous and abominable stuff as that which has been produced by the man (Crowley) who describes himself to you as the greatest living poet.

—Mr Justice Swift
​

the only abomination i read from that quote was that Crowley considered himself a talented poet....

 

[turk179]

My apologies good sir.

Satanism and Wicca are indeed different.

Gardner did more then just "know" Crowley.

“There are indeed certain expressions and certain words used which smack of Crowley; possibly he borrowed things from the cult writings, or more likely someone may have borrowed expressions from him” – Gerald B. Gardner, “Witchcraft Today”, 1954.

He has been accused of wholesale copy of Crowley in his works.

of Crowley in his 1934 court case which he lost and had to declare bankruptcy

I have been over forty years engaged in the administration of the law in one capacity or another. I thought that I knew of every conceivable form of wickedness. I thought that everything which was vicious and bad had been produced at one time or another before me. I have learnt in this case that we can always learn something more if we live long enough. I have never heard such dreadful, horrible, blasphemous and abominable stuff as that which has been produced by the man (Crowley) who describes himself to you as the greatest living poet.

—Mr Justice Swift

​

the only abomination i read from that quote was that Crowley considered himself a talented poet....

Hey buddy. It's already been pointed out once but what does any of this have to do with the OP? I can tell that you are up for some serious pagan bashing so why don't you start your own thread about why you don't know what your talking about in regards to Wicca.:biglaugh:

 

[Gentoo]

***MOD POST***

Folks, let's remain civil here. Focus on the topic, not on attacking each other.
​

This is a reminder, do not ignore these posts or
the thread will be shut down.

Now, back on topic please.
​

 

[Kcnorwood]

My apologies good sir.

Satanism and Wicca are indeed different.

Gardner did more then just "know" Crowley.

“There are indeed certain expressions and certain words used which smack of Crowley; possibly he borrowed things from the cult writings, or more likely someone may have borrowed expressions from him” – Gerald B. Gardner, “Witchcraft Today”, 1954.

He has been accused of wholesale copy of Crowley in his works.

of Crowley in his 1934 court case which he lost and had to declare bankruptcy

I have been over forty years engaged in the administration of the law in one capacity or another. I thought that I knew of every conceivable form of wickedness. I thought that everything which was vicious and bad had been produced at one time or another before me. I have learnt in this case that we can always learn something more if we live long enough. I have never heard such dreadful, horrible, blasphemous and abominable stuff as that which has been produced by the man (Crowley) who describes himself to you as the greatest living poet.

—Mr Justice Swift

​

the only abomination i read from that quote was that Crowley considered himself a talented poet....

So your basing everything you know on Crowley on this one case? Intresting. One's man share's his thought's on someone else you run with it.
Gardner said a lot of things that does not make it true. I'm going to be honest with you I think Gardner was a dirty old man who liked to have sex with young (not underaged) girls. I do not think that a covern of Witches shared thier secrets with him so he could share them with the world. I've never had a problem with Wicca I just don't believe that Gardner was who he said he was.

Now back to the OP just because your believes differ from the rest of us it does not make it true. Perhaps it's true for you& that's great not your truth is not everyones.

 

[Father Heathen]

and might i remind you, that you're quick to attack religions and the religious and call them out on it, but you cry foul when someone calls out someone evil who practiced atheism (Stalin)

How is atheism "practiced"? Is not believing in unicorns practiced? Stalin and the Soviets don't represent those who don't believe in god any more than they represent those who don't believe in unicorns.

And FYI, Anton LaVey, founder of the Church of Satan, loathed Wiccans, and if you actually study the two religions there are a lot of stark contrasts. They're like water and oil.

 

[Heneni]

So, you believe a person who, by all actions, could be considered saint-like but just isn't Christian would not be spared god's wrath (not saying I'm saint-like) and a horribly twisted mass murderer who claimed belief in Jesus before he died would have more love from god because of his belief?

Do you believe in hell or non-existence?

What do you believe the purpose of reincarnation is?

Salvation is the work of god. It is He alone who rouses the soul 'dead in trespasses and sins'.

If anybody has virtues they are gods gift to them.

Sinning is our own doing and righteousness is of god. Christ lives in his people, and it matters not how good we feel we are or how bad we feel we are. It matters not if we do good works or not, what matters is that christ lives in his people.

If christ lives in his people, they will do good works, probably like many other people who do good works who dont have christ in them. But the difference is...its not the good works that makes us 'saints' its the life of christ in his people.

God grants eternal life to those who have the mark of god...that is christ in them.

Reincarnation ..is a way to try again. Or a way to continue the work of god in our lives. For him to work in our lives, we have to have his life in us.

I believe that earth is hell, and it will be destroyed. And so will everybody that does not have the life of christ in them. We dont have any standing before god unless the life of christ is in us. We on our own have no right to be in his presence. What god does for us its because he does it for his son.

We have favour with god solely because his son has favour with god, and his son lives in us. We are blessed because god blesses his son. And we recieve those blessings because of his son in us. Without Jesus, there is no means of coming to the father in right standing with him.

It is because god the father sees the son of god in us, that he grants our prayers, looks after us, and secures our eternal life.

heneni

 

[Father Heathen]

So it's not compassion, honor, honestly, integrity and dignity that makes one a good person, but rather whether or not they lick the toes of some cheap Krishna knock-off?

 

[England my lionheart]

First of all I love how you avoid the issues. Satanism & Wicca are totally different things but sence you have your head stuck in the sand I can see where you don't know the differences. Even if Crowley & Gardner knew each other that means nothing. Wiccan is a part of the Pagan umbrella so in effect your attacking my belifes as well. It's really sad when people think they know something,when in fact all they know is what someone else had told them.

I am not a Wiccan but its obvious to me that Satanism has no part in it,if you read their Motto An it harm none,do what thou will it is pretty clear.
There are Christian Wiccans aswell so to link Wicca to Satanism seems crazy IMO so i agree with you.

 

[Renji]

What do you think will happen to me?

I'm a Pagan. I do not and will not follow nor worship the Abrahamic god. I believe there is a possibility that there is a god whom some have taken to be the Abrahamic god, but don't think that god is what it's believers think it to be. I doubt the existence of the man named Jesus Christ.

I use ritual and prayer combined (magic) in cast circles.

I'm a stay-at-home mom of two little children. I play with them, take care of them and tuck them in at night. I make dinners, pay our bills, and clean the house.

I served my country in the U.S. Navy and am proud of that fact.

I prevented my ex-brother-in-law from commiting suicide.

I live with the father of my children and am in a loving relationship with him, but we are not legally married.

I donate food, baby formula, clothes, coats and so on to the local women and children's shelter.


So, according to your ideas/faith/religion what will happen to me when I die?
(Atheists are excluded from this question as I believe we already know the clear cut answer )

That's nice of you Draka, you have a big heart just like the heart of Jesus! If I'm only God, you know, I think that I will place you on heaven after your death so that you can know things about me. I think, you should spend some time to know this man Jesus Christ (I'm not actualy trying to change you into Christianity, ok? Just try to know Him sometime and see a difference)

 

[logician]

"What do you think will happen to me?"

Same thing that happens to all life, you will cease to exist.

 

[Draka]

That's nice of you Draka, you have a big heart just like the heart of Jesus! If I'm only God, you know, I think that I will place you on heaven after your death so that you can know things about me. I think, you should spend some time to know this man Jesus Christ (I'm not actualy trying to change you into Christianity, ok? Just try to know Him sometime and see a difference)

Thank you for your response. I can tell you're not proselytizing so no worries.

 

[Kcnorwood]

Thank you for your response. I can tell you're not proselytizing so no worries.

I love how some people can't leave well enough alone.

 

[Kcnorwood]

I can tell that you are up for some serious pagan bashing so why don't you start your own thread about why you don't know what your talking about in regards to Wicca.:biglaugh:

I'd love that!

 

[Draka]

I love how some people can't leave well enough alone.

I don't understand. Did I do something wrong? I just thanked him for his thoughts and let him know I understood he wasn't trying to convert me like he said he wasn't.

 

[Kcnorwood]

I don't understand. Did I do something wrong? I just thanked him for his thoughts and let him know I understood he wasn't trying to convert me like he said he wasn't.

You did nothing wrong some people just can't help themselves.

 

[tennis_hero]

I was listening to a sermon today, and it shed light on this matter- and if i may I'd like to share

Can someone be considered "good", in the eyes of man perhaps....

but to be good is to not be bad, and to be bad is to sin, and sin is what God hates.

by the life you've lived no matter who you are on the planet today, you deserve to be condemned to hell (and im talking about everyone reading this)

i deserve to be condemned to hell and so do you

why? because I've sinned.

the greatest person you may have known, someone you grew up with- perhaps your mother, or a friend who lived a life of a saint, who saved countless lives with charity work.... they've sinned- they deserve to go to hell

there isn't a case of, "it's okay because you saved your brother in law from suicide- so that cancels out some of the other sins you've committed"

no, its a simple case of- have you broken God's law? have you sinned? everyone reading this knows in their own hearts the answer is yes, they've sinned, they deserve to go to hell (and bear in mind, becoming angry with someone, hating someone, that is sin- concealing it in your heart- that is sin- God is holy, he is perfect- God hates sin)

and the only thing that will save you is that God loves us all enough he would take all those sins- all that condemnation that we've done, and his own son would endure it for us

salvation through Christ.

thats why Christianity is different, thats why no matter what you'll do in life- no matter how many great deeds, or great acts of piety.... if you go to your grave without accepting Christ, your sins are going to condemn you when you come before our Lord God.

and I'm sorry if that sounds horrible to you, or if you know anyone who you considered as good but they didn't accept Christ- guess what, they sinned as well... they broke God's laws, they did what he hates and they have no defense to it

you have the choice, you have been granted such great things from God, the intelligence to reason, to comprehend, to understand so much- but you know as well as anyone else- you're only guarantee is that you're going to die one day, and unless you believe as atheists do that you're final destination is worm food and that you have no soul, then there will more to it then just death

I wasn't born a Christian, I was as far removed from being one as you could imagine. I scoffed and laughed myself at Christian thought that another man dying for me or shedding his blood was going to make all the difference in my life- my family is a Muslim family.... i didn't know anyone who was truly a Christian untill i came online and met some- my only experience of Christianity were agnostic christians (in name only) who themselves knew less of the bible then i did (and i hadn't read it yet)

but even i knew then- i sinned, and i knew God hated sin- i had no guarantee and only worry that no matter what i did (my works) it would never be enough to cancel out my sins.... if anything i was trying to buy my way into heaven by doing good, whilst still doing bad things, still getting angry unfairly, still feeling hate sometimes, still getting into arguments- its all sin

Accepting Christ isn't a get out of jail free card, no- truly accepting Christ in your heart does one thing to you- it makes you hate the sin you used to consider was fine before (those little sins we all do, that we think is no big deal), it changes you- and it does truly have a profound efect upon your life. im by no means perfect, but i'm trying... and if i've sounded harsh before i truly appologise, i'm still trying to walk the path and it isn't easy

 

[Draka]

Tennis_Hero, I understand what you believe and the reasonings behind it. I know you believe that "no, its a simple case of- have you broken God's law? have you sinned? everyone reading this knows in their own hearts the answer is yes, they've sinned, they deserve to go to hell " just please realize that this isn't always true. Everyone doesn't "know" those things because some of us simply don't believe in the things you do. I know in my heart that there are different "laws". I know of a different Divine. I know I will not go to "hell" because there is no such place. So you see, I am not justifying anything in my life for fear of hell. For why would I fear something which I do not believe even exists?

Now, if you are truly sorry for your tone and your lies about what I have said in this thread then we can move on with being civil. Agreed?