When "Inerrant" Really Means "Full Of Errors"

[Trailblazer]

I am sorry, but your bias is more than obvious at times. That you cannot see it renders your other claims rather baseless.

All Christians have a bias towards Christianity and Jesus.
They generally cannot see anything else so even if they engage me in a dialogue it always ends up in the same place.

 

[Trailblazer]

The secular revolt against God and religion will be short lived. When the world hits bottom again and has an attitude change God will be waiting to lead people again.

The secular revolt is limited to certain countries in Europe and the USA..Religion is on the rise worldwide, and atheism is on the decline.

When the world hits bottom they won't be led by Christianity because Christianity is on the decline.

The growth rates of the Abrahamic religions from 1910-2010 were as follows: Judaism .11%, Christianity 1.32%, Islam 1.97%, and Baha’i Faith 3.54%.

From 2000-2010 Islam became the fastest growing religion (1.86 %) and the Baha’i Faith was the second fastest growing religion (1.72%).

Statistics from: Growth of religion - Wikipedia

The growth rates of the Baha’i Faith were higher than Islam from 1910 to 2010 because it includes the “formative age” of the Baha’i Faith (1921-1944) FOURTH PERIOD: THE INCEPTION OF THE FORMATIVE AGE OF THE BAHÁ’Í FAITH 1921–1944

Growth of the Baha’i Faith has slowed down since 2000 because the new goal is consolidation and community building, so the emphasis is not spreading the Faith all over the world as it was before in the 20th century.

 

[Trailblazer]

Churches are closing in unprecedented number, not just because of COVID but because of no attendance in general on top of COVID. This is God's work. If His intent is to stop people believing in Jesus He's doing a splendid job as revealed by the statistics in the articles above. He could turn all this around because He's omnipotent, but He chooses to allow Christianity to continue to crumble.

Christianity does not need God's help in crumbling, it will crumble all on its own. But God will allow it because God wants humanity to turn to Baha'u'llah, the Messenger of God He has sent for this age. Moreover, it is the Will of God and what God has ordained that there be only one religion in the future, and that means that eventually all the religions will have to unite under one common banner. The only way that will ever happen is if people of other religions embrace the teachings of Baha'u'llah, who wrote that there is only one God and one religion of God that is revealed in every new age according to the needs of the times.

“That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith. This can in no wise be achieved except through the power of a skilled, an all-powerful and inspired Physician. This, verily, is the truth, and all else naught but error.”

The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 91

 

[Trailblazer]

I personally think that any God worth His salt, if He wanted so strongly for people to believe in Him or at least that Jesus was His divine son, He would have left massive amounts of evidence to support what people clearly cannot see. In courts we don't ask juries to take the word of a prosecution attorney that the accused is guilty, we demand evidence to support that charge. It's just endemic to our natures to want to see proof for something. This business of the just shall walk by faith, IMHO is just a trick the church manufactured because people wanted proof of Jesus and they didn't have any to offer.

As you well know, Christians believe that the New Testament is the evidence.
What other evidence do you think God should have given us?
Evidence is not the same as proof.

Evidence: the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid: https://www.google.com/search

Proof: evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement: https://www.google.com/search

Sure, some people want proof, but we so not always get what we want, especially if we are expecting to get it from God. God never provides absolute proof because that would make it to easy to believe, and God wants our faith, but it can and should be a reason-based faith. The caveat is that once we have complete certitude that God exists and He sent certain Messengers on His behalf we no longer need faith because we know. Mind you, there are still things we do not know about God and that is what we need faith for.

 

[Trailblazer]

It was a purely political decision that Constantine chose Christianity. I don't think God had anything to do with it.

I do not think so either because God does not interfere with human free will decisions.
That is precisely why God has allowed Christianity to unfold as it has unfolded and why God is allowing it to crumble as it is crumbling.

 

[halbhh]

I am. You keep confirming it.

Even if you smear me 100 times, I doubt even 2 or 3 people would believe those for more than a day. You are just wasting your time trying to smear me. Why not use the finite -- realistically: not very long -- amount of time you have left doing something beneficial to yourself instead?

 

[Colt]

The secular revolt is limited to certain countries in Europe and the USA..Religion is on the rise worldwide, and atheism is on the decline.

When the world hits bottom they won't be led by Christianity because Christianity is on the decline.

The growth rates of the Abrahamic religions from 1910-2010 were as follows: Judaism .11%, Christianity 1.32%, Islam 1.97%, and Baha’i Faith 3.54%.

From 2000-2010 Islam became the fastest growing religion (1.86 %) and the Baha’i Faith was the second fastest growing religion (1.72%).

Statistics from: Growth of religion - Wikipedia

The growth rates of the Baha’i Faith were higher than Islam from 1910 to 2010 because it includes the “formative age” of the Baha’i Faith (1921-1944) FOURTH PERIOD: THE INCEPTION OF THE FORMATIVE AGE OF THE BAHÁ’Í FAITH 1921–1944

Growth of the Baha’i Faith has slowed down since 2000 because the new goal is consolidation and community building, so the emphasis is not spreading the Faith all over the world as it was before in the 20th century.

People will want the conceptually simple gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven established by the Son of God while on earth as another Son may appear to restate that gospel.

 

[Colt]

Christianity does not need God's help in crumbling, it will crumble all on its own. But God will allow it because God wants humanity to turn to Baha'u'llah, the Messenger of God He has sent for this age. Moreover, it is the Will of God and what God has ordained that there be only one religion in the future, and that means that eventually all the religions will have to unite under one common banner. The only way that will ever happen is if people of other religions embrace the teachings of Baha'u'llah, who wrote that there is only one God and one religion of God that is revealed in every new age according to the needs of the times.

“That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith. This can in no wise be achieved except through the power of a skilled, an all-powerful and inspired Physician. This, verily, is the truth, and all else naught but error.”

The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 91

Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Even if you smear me 100 times, I doubt even 2 or 3 people would believe those for more than a day. You are just wasting your time trying to smear me. Why not use the finite -- realistically: not very long -- amount of time you have left doing something beneficial to yourself instead?

There was no smear. This is a problem with many theists. They tend to make false accusations when they are shown to be wrong. If you want a serious discussion on why your take on prophecy is wrong I would be more than happy to accommodate you. But honesty is a must.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith.

And that is the sort of claim that Christians make but can never support. How would you support this? Quoting the Bible is not much help. There are countless different interpretations of that book and the claims tend to be circular in nature. If one wants to use the Bible one would first have to show that it is reliable. Good luck with that.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

As you well know, Christians believe that the New Testament is the evidence.
What other evidence do you think God should have given us?
Evidence is not the same as proof.

Evidence: the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid: https://www.google.com/search

Proof: evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement: https://www.google.com/search

Sure, some people want proof, but we so not always get what we want, especially if we are expecting to get it from God. God never provides absolute proof because that would make it to easy to believe, and God wants our faith, but it can and should be a reason-based faith. The caveat is that once we have complete certitude that God exists and He sent certain Messengers on His behalf we no longer need faith because we know. Mind you, there are still things we do not know about God and that is what we need faith for.

I see the definitions of proof and evidence but in my mind they accomplish the same thing. I'd like to see a handful of secular historians' writings sometime between 0 and 32 CE saying that they heard of or better, witnessed these miracles that Jesus supposedly performed. Jesus supposedly had this incredibly large following, witnessed by the feeding of the 4000 and 5000 who followed him. Someone with that large a following certainly would have attracted the attention of the Romans in Israel who would have been fearful Jesus was planning a revolt of some sort. Bottom line: he would have been on their radar. The gospels also say his fame spread far and wide beyond the borders of Israel. At the very least Philo of Alexandria was in Jerusalem frequently during Jesus' supposed ministry and would have heard of Jesus, his miracles, his crucifixion, the earthquake, the darkness and most astonishingly the dead zombies rising from their graves and walking around Jerusalem. He certainly would have mentioned all this in his writings. But nothing. Not a peep from Philo. That to me is the most damning evidence/proof Jesus. if he existed was just a two-bit revolutionary who got crucified and that was the end of him. Stories of him began circulating over the decades since and his legend grew into this monster demi-god which the Christian faith picked up on and adopted as their mascot.

 

[danieldemol]

The secular revolt is limited to certain countries in Europe and the USA

The revolt against religion is limited to more educated places, however as more places become educated the same trends are seen. Consider this for example,

''Recent surveys indicate strongly that across the Middle East and Iran, almost half the population is loosening their ties to Islam.'

Source: Middle East: Are people losing their religion? | DW | 04.02.2021

The growth of religion is primarily due to the high birth rates amongst the abrahamic religions, however this could all change rapidly with the spread of better education and family planning.

 

[halbhh]

There was no smear. This is a problem with many theists. They tend to make false accusations when they are shown to be wrong. If you want a serious discussion on why your take on prophecy is wrong I would be more than happy to accommodate you. But honesty is a must.

As you've done more than once, you merely attempted to characterize my explanation as incorrect. I doubt you even fooled yourself.

 

[Subduction Zone]

As you've done more than once, you merely attempted to characterize my explanation as incorrect. I doubt you even fooled yourself.

It was worse than wrong, it was pathetic. But then biblical prophecy is indefensible. One has to dilute the meaning of the term until it is useless.

 

[halbhh]

It was worse than wrong, it was pathetic. But then biblical prophecy is indefensible. One has to dilute the meaning of the term until it is useless.

Hope you have a very good evening. I mean that sincerely.

 

[Trailblazer]

People will want the conceptually simple gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven established by the Son of God while on earth as another Son may appear to restate that gospel.

There is no other Son of God. Jesus was the Son, but not literally because God does not have offspring, so Jesus was as a son is to a father in relationship.

Nobody ever intended to restate the gospel message. The spiritual teachings of Jesus in the gospel are timeless and eternal. The Word of God never passes away.

Matthew 24:35 “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”

However, more was needed for humanity needs to move on to the next stage of it's spiritual and material development, and that is why God sent another Messenger with another message and new social teachings and laws. If the gospel message was the only message that humanity ever needed, then logically speaking we would not have all the problems that we now see in the world today, since we have had the gospel message for 2000 years.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Hope you have a very good evening. I mean that sincerely.

I have my doubts, but you too.

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith.

Yes, I know that Jesus is the author and finisher of the Christian faith, just as Moses was the author and finisher of the Jewish faith and Muhammad was the author and finisher of the Muslim faith.

Baha'u'llah was the author and finisher of the Baha'i Faith, but Baha'is do not believe that He was the last or final Messenger of God as all the other faiths believe about their Founder. We believe there will be more Messengers sent by God in the future whenever God determines they are needed.

 

[Trailblazer]

The growth of religion is primarily due to the high birth rates amongst the abrahamic religions, however this could all change rapidly with the spread of better education and family planning.

So do you believe that eventually religion is going to die out and secularism is going to take over?
That seems highly unlikely since most people in the world still believe in God even if they do not ascribe to a religion.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So do you believe that eventually religion is going to die out and secularism is going to take over?
That seems highly unlikely since most people in the world still believe in God even if they do not ascribe to a religion.

I don't know if I can dig up any statistics, and if I did they would probably be limited to individual countries, but statistically the growth of the "nons" has been huge recently. It cannot continue at that rate, but I think that the nonreligious are currently one of the world's major "religions". Hold on a sec.