When Should Women Obey Their Husbands?

[Robert.Evans]

Robert, this whole debate and argument tactic of "I know you are but what am I?" has been done before, though unfortunately for you it's 1) unsuccessful, and 2) been done by Pee Wee Herman.

There are many earlier communications that you would have to read before you come to the same conclusion just because I am a man, madam. Though you are entitled to your opinion, whatever your opinion was.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

There are many earlier communications that you would have to read before you come to the same conclusion just because I am a man, madam. Though you are entitled to your opinion, whatever your opinion was.

You completely misunderstood my joke.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

She can obey him only if her husband can strip for her and do a lap dance.

I can't tell you how much this makes me happy.

 

[TashaN]

I can't tell you how much this makes me happy.

lol.

 

[Nietzsche]

She can obey him only if her husband can strip for her and do a lap dance.

I'd support closing the thread at this point, because you clearly just won.

 

[sanraal]

A man should take 'the lead' in general in a relationship. The majority of women, except for some more 'free fought types', love it when in general, a guy takes initiative what to do, even though they won't say it openly. Nature works this way! Also few guys get a relationship if they hope the woman makes the first move and starts to talk to them : ) So in this way, and it was more so in old days, a woman should not do things that make a man feel downgraded. Like humiliate him in public for family or friends, go a lot against his decisions, etc. For a man by nature, not feeling insulted is his life. Men love honor and respect in a woman. For a woman there are other things that upset her that men do. A woman should let a guy in general take charge or...at least give him the impression he does so and make him feel respected and valued.

In the New Testament Paul also said for this reasons a woman is not allowed to speak against a man in church but ask for clearance at home. This text is a bit outdated and should be seen as symbolic, because traditionally Jewish women in the service chattered loudly also humiliating their husbands a bit. That's the reason.

The Bible texts are taken out of context
1 Peter 3 - The text reads when the woman submits to the man, they may be won over by their gentle spirit instead of spending only money on jewelry etc. Practically this means that in old days, a lot of man were rough, unbelievers and if a woman is soft (sincere, but not weak and manipulative) in heart, the men would calm down and be 'won over' by her spirit. After all, men can go against a woman so much but if a woman cries or shows her hurt, the men always calm down and talk to her, unless he is a real ******* of course.

Ephesians 5 - Works TWO ways if you read it. A man is also asked there to treat his woman like his own body. What man hates his own body? A man should give his wife affection and true love, show interest in her life a bit, etc. Help her emotionally etc. He should also share his own feelings and be honest to her in any aspect. Then a woman has some transparency in how a guy really is. After all, they are one body.

 

[Nietzsche]

A man should take 'the lead' in general in a relationship. The majority of women, except for some more 'free fought types', love it when in general, a guy takes initiative what to do, even though they won't say it openly. Nature works this way! Also few guys get a relationship if they hope the woman makes the first move and starts to talk to them : ) So in this way, and it was more so in old days, a woman should not do things that make a man feel downgraded. Like humiliate him in public for family or friends, go a lot against his decisions, etc. For a man by nature, not feeling insulted is his life. Men love honor and respect in a woman. For a woman there are other things that upset her that men do. A woman should let a guy in general take charge or...at least give him the impression he does so and make him feel respected and valued.

In the New Testament Paul also said for this reasons a woman is not allowed to speak against a man in church but ask for clearance at home. This text is a bit outdated and should be seen as symbolic, because traditionally Jewish women in the service chattered loudly also humiliating their husbands a bit. That's the reason.

The Bible texts are taken out of context
1 Peter 3 - The text reads when the woman submits to the man, they may be won over by their gentle spirit instead of spending only money on jewelry etc. Practically this means that in old days, a lot of man were rough, unbelievers and if a woman is soft (sincere, but not weak and manipulative) in heart, the men would calm down and be 'won over' by her spirit. After all, men can go against a woman so much but if a woman cries or shows her hurt, the men always calm down and talk to her, unless he is a real ******* of course.

Ephesians 5 - Works TWO ways if you read it. A man is also asked there to treat his woman like his own body. What man hates his own body? A man should give his wife affection and true love, show interest in her life a bit, etc. Help her emotionally etc. He should also share his own feelings and be honest to her in any aspect. Then a woman has some transparency in how a guy really is. After all, they are one body.

...

I'm curious. How many relationships have you ever had?

 

[sanraal]

...

I'm curious. How many relationships have you ever had?

...

I'm curious. How many relationships have you ever had?

I had 2 relationships before. Now in a third one and have been married for almost 10 years since 2005. I am a bit more old fashioned than other man, but that's probably because I am 50% Yugoslavian.

 

[savagewind]

I think I have seen that woman speak without thinking first, more than men do so the Bible council which says "wives speak to your husbands at home" is wise council to consider.

I opened a Thesaurus today while I am dusting the book shelves. I opened it and my eyes fell on the word "willingness". I think Bible council which has been translated "OBEY" really means have the willingness to listen and to consider. There is another Bible verse which says to mediate so to answer. That is for men and for women. So the truth of God is that women who are more emotional (usually imho) should take it to heart that their emotionally charged contention is not right. Men's emotionally charged contention is not right either but might not be common as it is in women. Make the Bible about real life. Why not?

 

[Nietzsche]

I think I have seen that woman speak without thinking first, more than men do so the Bible council which says "wives speak to your husbands at home" is wise council to consider.

Do you have anything beyond anecdotal evidence for that?

I opened a Thesaurus today while I am dusting the book shelves. I opened it and my eyes fell on the word "willingness". I think Bible council which has been translated "OBEY" really means have the willingness to listen and to consider. There is another Bible verse which says to mediate so to answer. That is for men and for women. So the truth of God is that women who are more emotional (usually imho) should take it to heart that their emotionally charged contention is not right. Men's emotionally charged contention is not right either but might not be common as it is in women. Make the Bible about real life. Why not?

No. It is not. The best word for the translation is "obey". That's what the equivalent works in the original languages mean.

 

[savagewind]

Do you have anything beyond anecdotal evidence for that?

You mean like a scientific experiment which proves it. No I do not. Do you have some that proves it isn't true?

No. It is not. The best word for the translation is "obey". That's what the equivalent works in the original languages mean.

No! Look at the page if you can. See on the right? None say "obey". Are you making obey and submit the same? Why?

Strong's Greek: 5293. ὑποτάσσω (hupotassó) -- to place or rank under, to subject, mid. to obey

Matthew 8:27 The men were amazed and asked, "What kind of man is this? Even the winds and the waves obey him!

Mark 1:27The people were all so amazed that they asked each other, "What is this? A new teaching--and with authority! He even gives orders to impure spirits and they obey him."

Acts 6:7 So the word of God spread. The number of disciples in Jerusalem increased rapidly, and a large number of priests became obedient to the faith.

Ephesians 6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.

Sumit can mean to obey but that is it's simplest and laziest interpretation.

• acknowledge
• agree
• defer
• surrender
• abide
• accede
• acquiesce
• appease
• bend
• bow
• buckle
• capitulate

 

[savagewind]

To be teaching the Bible ever says OBEY is to preach against freedom. In my humble opinion.

Evil can't do anything without OBEDIENCE.

But men say God teaches obedience. So then I should conclude God is master over evil.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

A man should take 'the lead' in general in a relationship. The majority of women, except for some more 'free fought types', love it when in general, a guy takes initiative what to do, even though they won't say it openly. Nature works this way! Also few guys get a relationship if they hope the woman makes the first move and starts to talk to them : ) So in this way, and it was more so in old days, a woman should not do things that make a man feel downgraded. Like humiliate him in public for family or friends, go a lot against his decisions, etc. For a man by nature, not feeling insulted is his life. Men love honor and respect in a woman. For a woman there are other things that upset her that men do. A woman should let a guy in general take charge or...at least give him the impression he does so and make him feel respected and valued.

This is not so for the majority of women. For the women who prefer being the bottom (so to speak in power-distinct relationships), your post will speak to them. The majority of women are more egalitarian in their feeling of place in marriages.

In the New Testament Paul also said for this reasons a woman is not allowed to speak against a man in church but ask for clearance at home. This text is a bit outdated and should be seen as symbolic, because traditionally Jewish women in the service chattered loudly also humiliating their husbands a bit. That's the reason.

Stereotype much? Wow...

The Bible texts are taken out of context
1 Peter 3 - The text reads when the woman submits to the man, they may be won over by their gentle spirit instead of spending only money on jewelry etc. Practically this means that in old days, a lot of man were rough, unbelievers and if a woman is soft (sincere, but not weak and manipulative) in heart, the men would calm down and be 'won over' by her spirit. After all, men can go against a woman so much but if a woman cries or shows her hurt, the men always calm down and talk to her, unless he is a real ******* of course.

Is this what you hear from women? How about women who seek protection in domestic violence shelters? Have they told you that they were beaten, raped, or tortured because they didn't cry like they were supposed to?

I volunteer for shelters for battered wives and women in general, and I can tell you that is NOT the case at all.

Ephesians 5 - Works TWO ways if you read it. A man is also asked there to treat his woman like his own body. What man hates his own body? A man should give his wife affection and true love, show interest in her life a bit, etc. Help her emotionally etc. He should also share his own feelings and be honest to her in any aspect. Then a woman has some transparency in how a guy really is. After all, they are one body.

If two people are sharing their feelings, offering transparency, being honest, being respectful to each other, then the submission is mutual.

Your understanding of women is archaic. There are women in this thread who speak very differently about what we like and don't like generally. How about listening to women instead of making these assumptions based on 2000-year old narratives?

 

[savagewind]

Is this what you hear from women? How about women who seek protection in domestic violence shelters? Have they told you that they were beaten, raped, or tortured because they didn't cry like they were supposed to?

I volunteer for shelters for battered wives and women in general, and I can tell you that is NOT the case at all.

Good! How many times have I hoped to cry instead of being angry. I cry alone. I don't know why. Pepper! I'll try it.

 

[savagewind]

Actresses get a get out of jail card but we don't? UNFAIR I say.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I think I have seen that woman speak without thinking first, more than men do so the Bible council which says "wives speak to your husbands at home" is wise council to consider.

I opened a Thesaurus today while I am dusting the book shelves. I opened it and my eyes fell on the word "willingness". I think Bible council which has been translated "OBEY" really means have the willingness to listen and to consider. There is another Bible verse which says to mediate so to answer. That is for men and for women. So the truth of God is that women who are more emotional (usually imho) should take it to heart that their emotionally charged contention is not right. Men's emotionally charged contention is not right either but might not be common as it is in women. Make the Bible about real life. Why not?

Oh, honey, men are just as emotional. Raised three sons and have been married for a long time. I've given our boys room to cry and our daughter to show anger, since emotions are not gender-specific. They're human emotions.

Men are told never to show emotion because of the stigma of being seen as weak. Ridiculous, I say. Men and women who have the room to capture and work through the full range of emotions are more well-rounded and less repressed, stressed, and ticking time-bombs.

Same thing with hormones...we joke about women acting badly because of their hormones and then turn around and suggest men never act off their hormones. But since human beings are hormonal, and testosterone is a hormone too, it follows that men are just as susceptible as women to act on their own hormonal ebbs and flows.

We're human. It's totally okay to see us that way and to stop fighting against each other in either a battle of wills, or the shaming or coercion into submission.

 

[savagewind]

Every Bible council is about Bible council imo. There is a movement to take Bible council out of it's relative position which is to other Bible council. So when someone posts like they do I understand it in light of The Whole which is what I think "all scripture is inspired" means. There is something true about woman being subject to man's standing in The Church. I do not know what it is but I believe it is real. It is true that teachers face a harsher penalty if they are wrong. It seems women of The Church are being protected by the command be in subjection. Is it right? I do not know. I shall consider it protection and an OK that I need not change any minds.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Every Bible council is about Bible council imo. There is a movement to take Bible council out of it's relative position which is to other Bible council. So when someone posts like they do I understand it in light of The Whole which is what I think "all scripture is inspired" means. There is something true about woman being subject to man's standing in The Church. I do not know what it is but I believe it is real. It is true that teachers face a harsher penalty if they are wrong. It seems women of The Church are being protected by the command be in subjection. Is it right? I do not know. I shall consider it protection and an OK that I need not change any minds.

If it works for you, then I think it's wonderful. For some, this rhetoric speaks to them, and gives them solace and guidance. Consensual submission can offer worlds of beauty and wisdom.

For some, it's safety and protection. For others, it's a prison. I say leave it up to the person to decide how they feel about the structure and act accordingly to their ethics and pursuit of happiness.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Nature works this way!

No it doesn't. There have been numerous matriarchal societies throughout history where women, not men, have been in a position of power.

For a man by nature, not feeling insulted is his life.

Shouldn't this apply to men and women?

A woman should let a guy in general take charge or...at least give him the impression he does so and make him feel respected and valued.

Or how about I let him know that he is not in charge, nor am I in charge?

 

[Skwim]

This is one reason, among many, I find the bible disgusting. There are too many cases like this where the book is absurd. Either god doesn't exist and it was made up by a bunch of blokes, or god is an insufferable *******. Either way I want nothing to do with it.

Can't argue with that.