When was Yeshua born? Summer/Winter

[dyanaprajna2011]

20111130.1415

@Pegg

Pontius Pilate reigned for ten years as governor of the Roman province of Judaea while Emperor Tiberius Caesar was in office.

In one of our sessions with the Holy Spirit, I learned that Jesus created Pontius Pilate when He was 12 years old because the new Roman emperor, Tiberius Caesar, asked His mother, the Blessed Virgin Mary, to give Jesus to him for adoption. His mother gave a boy who looked exactly like Jesus. It is just logical that Tiberius Caesar appointed his adopted child, Pontius Pilate, who was 26 years old then, as governor of Judaea during his reign as emperor.

I'm all for mystical experience, but they're subjective for a reason, and is the reason why I reject revealed religions. They are meant only for the person experiencing them, no more, no less.

 

[Pegg]

I'm all for mystical experience, but they're subjective for a reason, and is the reason why I reject revealed religions. They are meant only for the person experiencing them, no more, no less.

well all i can say is that anything which goes beyond what the holy spirit revealed in the holy scriptures is not from the holy spirit.

 

[peacecrusader888]

AD stands for the latin 'Anno Domini' meaning 'year of our Lord'
Its also termed the 'CE' or Common Era by some.
And our BCE dates stand for Before Common Era.... or before the 'Year of our Lord'

But can you tell us the reasoning behind the 33 CE date for Jesus birth??? Dont you agree with the bible accounts of Jesus ministry and death during the time of Pontius Pilate??? If not, why not?

20111130.1600

@Pegg

Jesus was not born in 33 CE. He was born in 33 BC, May 23, 33 BC to be exact.

It is assumed that the Jews were using the Jewish lunisolar calendar (353 to 385 days in a year) which the Jews adopted only when they were exiled to Babylon during the seventh century BC. The historians may not know that from the Israelites’ departure from Egypt, they have been using a purely lunar calendar (354 days in a year) until the time of Jesus and into 358/359 AD when they unified their two calendars into one, the form of which is still used today. Please read http://aristean.org/wp111.htm titled “The Israelites used a lunar calendar before”.

I agree with Bible accounts of Jesus’ ministry and death during the time of Pontius Pilate and Tiberius Caesar. If there is any discrepancy between the Bible accounts and what the Holy Spirit said, I evaluate which one is logically correct. For example, the Bible says that Jesus have brothers and sisters. The Holy Spirit says that it is only Jesus that the Blessed Virgin Mary gave birth to. I would believe the Holy Spirit because why would Jesus on the cross tell His beloved disciple, “Behold thy mother!” in John 19:27 if Jesus had brothers and sisters by Mary. Jesus also said in John 19:26, “Woman, behold thy son!”.

 

[peacecrusader888]

20111130.1635

@Pegg

Who or what is the Holy Spirit?

 

[Pegg]

I agree with Bible accounts of Jesus’ ministry and death during the time of Pontius Pilate and Tiberius Caesar. If there is any discrepancy between the Bible accounts and what the Holy Spirit said, I evaluate which one is logically correct. For example, the Bible says that Jesus have brothers and sisters. The Holy Spirit says that it is only Jesus that the Blessed Virgin Mary gave birth to. I would believe the Holy Spirit because why would Jesus on the cross tell His beloved disciple, “Behold thy mother!” in John 19:27 if Jesus had brothers and sisters by Mary. Jesus also said in John 19:26, “Woman, behold thy son!”.

you obviously dont believe the bible is the inspired word of God then. Thats the problem.

You are choosing to follow a woman who groans and makes weird noises with a sheet over head instead.

 

[Pegg]

20111130.1635

@Pegg

Who or what is the Holy Spirit?

Gods holy spirit is his power, his will, his force... its what God uses to accomplish his purpose. Its not a person.

Genesis 1:2 Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of [the] watery deep; and God’s active force/spirit (Heb., weru′ach) was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters

Justin Martyr of the second century C.E. taught that the holy spirit was an influence or mode of operation of God. So its not a person, its Gods power and he sends it out to where it needs to be. It was holy spirit which influenced the writers of the bible and for that reason, what they wrote can be trusted above all else.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

You are choosing to follow a woman who groans and makes weird noises with a sheet over head instead.

Priceless.

 

[mohammed_beiruti]

I think that Roman Emperor Aurelian (270-275) Announced Mithra as the Main Savior God for the Roman empire and he made 25th of December as an official holiday.
Sol Invictus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

when they ask Pope John Paul II he admitted:

A few days before Christmas in 1993 Pope John Paul II admitted that the 25th of December date didn’t come from the Bible: "On that day in pagan antiquity, the birthday of the ‘Invincible Sun’ was celebrated to coincide with the winter solstice. . . . It seemed logical and natural to Christians to replace that feast with the celebration of the only and true Sun, Jesus Christ."

go to this link to make sure of what he said : Great Christmas Exchange

 

[RaviAuto]

I normally think he was born on Sukkot.

You are right dear, he was born in Sukkot

 

[peacecrusader888]

Gods holy spirit is his power, his will, his force... its what God uses to accomplish his purpose. Its not a person.

Genesis 1:2 Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of [the] watery deep; and God’s active force/spirit (Heb., weru′ach) was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters

Justin Martyr of the second century C.E. taught that the holy spirit was an influence or mode of operation of God. So its not a person, its Gods power and he sends it out to where it needs to be. It was holy spirit which influenced the writers of the bible and for that reason, what they wrote can be trusted above all else.

20111130.2050

@Pegg

Do you really believe that the Holy Spirit is not a person? How can He guide us into all truth if He will not speak? How can he show us things to come, that means to prophesy, if He does not tell these to us? Isn’t it that the Holy Spirit can speak whatsoever he shall hear? (John 16:13)

 

[Renji]

I'd say about Spring/Summer, if he existed.

What he said.

 

[peacecrusader888]

You are right dear, he was born in Sukkot

20111130.2100

@RaviAuto and Gjallarhorn

Was Jesus born in Sukkot? Sukkot is held in the month of Tishri, the first month of autumn, sometime in September and October. Do you think the shepherd would still go further away and watch their flock in the night when there is little grass because summer has dried out the grass in the field? Don’t you think that at this time of the year, the shepherd would put their flock in the animal barn in the evening?

 

[Pegg]

20111130.2050

@Pegg

Do you really believe that the Holy Spirit is not a person? How can He guide us into all truth if He will not speak? How can he show us things to come, that means to prophesy, if He does not tell these to us? Isn’t it that the Holy Spirit can speak whatsoever he shall hear? (John 16:13)

Thats right, because the holy scriptures show the spirit to come from God...not a separate entity to God and it is something that 'empowers' people.

The scriptural accounts show that God can give his spirit and people can become wise (king Solomon is a good example)
Exodus 31:1 And Jehovah continued to speak to Moses, saying: 2 “See, I do call by name Bez′al‧el the son of U′ri the son of Hur of the tribe of Judah. 3 And I shall fill him with the spirit of God in wisdom and in understanding and in knowledge

It was by holy spirit that Mary became pregnant (im sure you dont think the holy spirit actually had sexual intercourse with mary)
Luke 1:34 But Mary said to the angel: “How is this to be, since I am having no intercourse with a man?” 35 In answer the angel said to her: “Holy spirit will come upon you, and power of the Most High will overshadow you.

Holy spirit was given to the apostles to give to others...so it was something that could be passed around from person to person:
Acts 8:18 Now when Simon saw that through the laying on of the hands of the apostles the spirit was given, he offered them money, 19 saying: “Give me also this authority, that anyone upon whom I lay my hands may receive holy spirit.

Paul spoke of the spirit as a force of power which is given as a gift from God:
2Timothy 1:6 For this very cause I remind you to stir up like a fire which is in you through the laying of my hands upon you. 7 For God gave us the gift of God not a spirit of cowardice, but that of power

Acts 1:8 but YOU will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon YOU

Luke 24:49 And, look! I am sending forth upon YOU that which is promised by my Father. YOU, though, abide in the city until YOU become clothed with power from on high
Holy spirit is said to have rested upon Jesus and stayed with him and Jesus would baptize people with holy spirit::
John 1:32 John also bore witness, saying: “I viewed the spirit coming down as a dove out of heaven, and it remained upon him. 33 Even I did not know him, but the very One who sent me to baptize in water said to me, ‘Whoever it is upon whom you see the spirit coming down and remaining, this is the one that baptizes in holy spirit

The holy spirit itself is never seen in scripture as a person...its a force. And it was the force of holy spirit which gave the writers of the bible the inspiration to write Gods message.
2Peter 1:20 For YOU know this first, that no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation. 21 For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God as they were borne along by holy spirit
And for this reason, you should really use the bible as your guide because it is the product of Gods holy spirit upon men...it will never lead you astray.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

There are two ways by which the Holy Spirit communicates with us (plural). First is leaden where a white bed sheet covers her whole body, and second is without any covering.

Sounds similar to the Pentecostal's speaking in toungues.

 

[Poisonshady313]

A couple of points:

1. I still do not see the term "festival" being employed.

That's just you being unnecessarily nit-picky. Feast, festival... any attempt to translate the word חג in a verse where the word חג isn't found in the Hebrew text.

1. Etz Hayim, Plaut, the JPS Commentary, and a few others use the 1999 JPS translation.
2. This translation reads:
   The associated commentary reads:

   You shall observe the [Feast of] Unleavened Bread Understanding the phrase "u-sh'martem et ha-matzot" (literally, "guard the matzot") in this way is based on the the next phrase - "on this very day" - which takes the word "matzot" to mean the festival (Hag ha-Matzot). (For a parallel passage, see 23:15.)

Problem with that is, "on this very day" was not the 14th. It was the 15th.


We learn from verse 15: For a seven-day period you shall eat matzot, but on the previous day you shall nullify the leaven from your homes..."


So when verse 18 instructs: "In the first month on the fourteenth day of the month in the evening shall you eat matzot, until the twenty-first day of the month in the evening", it's clear that it's just re-iterating what verse 15 instructed.


There is no reason to suggest that the 14th is itself a separate celebration... no reason to suggest that "Chag ha-Matzot" is anything other than the holiday we commonly refer to as Pesach, which begins on the 15th of Nisan.

The question then becomes: Accurate according to what standard?

According to arbitrarily inserting a translation for the word "chag" in a place where it doesn't occur in the Hebrew text.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

According to arbitrarily inserting a translation for the word "chag" in a place where it doesn't occur in the Hebrew text.

I will inform the entire Reform, Conservative, and Reconstructionist movement that you disapprove.

 

[Poisonshady313]

From Targum Onkelos ...



From Targum Pseudo-Jonathan ...

Those passages don't say anything different than what I've been saying.

We start eating matzah on the 14th, but the 14th is not a seperate festival/feast/celebration unto itself... and it certainly isn't considered the first day of Pesach because from the 14th to the 21st, counting the 14th, is 8 days... yet the text reminds us that Pesach is a seven day period.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

20111130.2100

@RaviAuto and Gjallarhorn

Was Jesus born in Sukkot? Sukkot is held in the month of Tishri, the first month of autumn, sometime in September and October. Do you think the shepherd would still go further away and watch their flock in the night when there is little grass because summer has dried out the grass in the field? Don’t you think that at this time of the year, the shepherd would put their flock in the animal barn in the evening?

Animals still have to eat.

 

[Poisonshady313]

and that is exactly what the greek scriptures say too... Jesus was killed by 3pm in the friday afternoon of the 14th day of the month.

He was taken off the torture stake before the passover festival began that evening.

So far, we can agree (though there's still the confusion regarding those who claim that the last supper was a passover feast).

The lamb always symbolized the sacrifice that the messiah would make of himself...

:no:

and Jesus was the reality of the lamb which was prepared on the 14th day.

:no:

 

[Poisonshady313]

Well as I said before, the eating of the unfermented cakes and the passover were spoken of as the one festival at least in the first century.

ie: Luke 22:1 Now the festival of the unfermented cakes, the so-called Passover, was getting near.

It may not be spoken of like that today, but it certainly was back then according to the Jewish writers of the greek scriptures.

I would also direct your attention to Numbers 28:16 which says “‘And in the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month, will be Jehovah’s passover"
According to this scripture, passover began on the 14th day of the month in harmony with when Isreal went out of Egypt.

and at exodus 12:14 the words 'memorial' and 'feasts' are used to describe what was to occur on the 14th day of the month.
Also at Ezekiel 45:21 it confirms the above: “‘In the first [month], on the fourteenth day of the month, there should occur for YOU the passover. As a festival for seven days unfermented cakes are what should be eaten


This is why i asked you what you do differently today as to what they did back then?

BTW... I checked on the verses like I said I would. I was right. You're wrong. Exodus 12:14 does NOT describe the 14th.

The 14th certainly has its purpose... get rid of the leaven, start eating matzah, bring the pesach (passover) offering...

But this does not make it a feast, nor does it make it the first of the seven days of Passover