Where are the Dead?

[Trailblazer]

In my opinion, at the end of this life, what really matters is what a person believes about the afterlife; otherwise, they may become an earthbound spirit, wandering around aimlessly or remaining in one place because they don't know what is happening to them or what to do about it.

I wanted to add something I think I left out. Why would it 'matter' what a person 'believes' about the afterlife? How would that affect what actually happens to them when they die?

I believe that just as the earth is what it is as created by God, likewise the spiritual world is what it is as it has been created by God, and I think people will go where they are suited to do, according to their level of spiritual development at the time of death. That is what we hear from spirits who have crossed over in books like The Afterlife Revealed and Private Dowding, and this is congruent with Baha'i beliefs.

 

[Trailblazer]

My tv doesn't work right every so often, then it works ok. I don't attribute it to anything other than the internet service.

I already had the Comcast cable technician over to my house and he looked at what has been happening with the TV in the bedroom going on all by itself. The TV is in a cabinet with the doors closed and the remote control was not anywhere where it could be turned on accidentally. When the technician tried to turn the TV on with the remote control and the cabinet closed, he could not make the TV go on.

I demonstrated what had been happening to the cable technician. After examining all my equipment and looking at all the possibilities he concluded that it had to be paranormal since there was no 'normal' explanation. You should have seen the look on his face as he drove away! It's sure a good thing I was his last call for the day. He probably hit the bar after that.

Meanwhile if he told you before he died that he would communicate with you, is it possible in your mind that he can't?

Yes, I believe it is possible that he will not be able to commuicate with me, but I won't know unless I try to communicate with him.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I do not really think it is the Bible's teachings about the afterlife that are inaccurate and misleading, I think it is the Christian beliefs about the afterlife that are inaccurate and misleading. What Christians believe is from what they have been taught by the church leaders and/or how they interpret Bible verses. Bible verses interpreted correctly would give them the truth about the afterlife.

In my opinion, it's the Bible's teachings and message that cause confusion and misunderstandings, which in turn confuse Christians and cause them to believe differently about the Bible, and not just regarding death and the afterlife either. I do, however, think that a Christian can be even more confused when they're instructed to believe something entirely different about the Bible. I tried to clarify my perspective on the subject in a couple of previous posts (post #66 and post #89)) in this thread. Of course, what I wrote in these posts is just my personal perspective. I only share what I believe about the afterlife or my personal experiences, but I don't argue or debate about them. I like to share what I believe about the afterlife and paranormal phenomena.

What is perplexing to me is why some spirits are earthbound and others aren't. If these spirits never even crossed over to the spiritual world, how why would they even be asking "Where is God?" "Where is Jesus?" or "Why am I not in heaven yet?" It seems to me that these spirits are stuck on the material plane of existence for some reason, so of course they are asking "Where is God?" "Where is Jesus?" or "Why am I not in heaven yet?" It seems to me that what they are confused about is where they are and what happened to them, because they must know they don't have a physical body anymore, since they don't need to eat or drink or sleep.

I've explained why I believe that there are earthbound spirits in a previous post in this thread, so instead of copying what I wrote, I'll just post a link to the post (read it here). I've communicated with the spirits of people who just died, and they were ready to crossover into the spiritual world, while other spirits of people who just died weren't ready to crossover because they had unfinished business that they felt needed to be rectified before they crossed over.

I wanted to add something I think I left out. Why would it 'matter' what a person 'believes' about the afterlife? How would that affect what actually happens to them when they die?

I believe that just as the earth is what it is as created by God, likewise the spiritual world is what it is as it has been created by God, and I think people will go where they are suited to do, according to their level of spiritual development at the time of death. That is what we hear from spirits who have crossed over in books like The Afterlife Revealed and Private Dowding, and this is congruent with Baha'i beliefs.

I believe it matters what a person believes about the afterlife when they die because it could affect what happens to them after death. I don't believe that God created the world or the spiritual world. I don't believe in heaven or hell either. In the same post I linked above (see here), I explained what I believe about human spirits in the afterlife. Lastly, I hope that you know that I respect your spiritual beliefs about the afterlife, even though I don't entirely agree.

 

[Trailblazer]

In my opinion, it's the Bible's teachings and message that cause confusion and misunderstandings, which in turn confuse Christians and cause them to believe differently about the Bible, and not just regarding death and the afterlife either. I do, however, think that a Christian can be even more confused when they're instructed to believe something entirely different about the Bible.

Well you certainly have a lot more knowledge about the Bible than I do, so I respect your opinion. I only know a smattering of verses on certain subjects and a few verses that refer to heaven. I agree with any verses that say there will be no more pain and no more sorrow in heaven, since that is congruent with Baha'i teachings.

I've communicated with the spirits of people who just died, and they were ready to crossover into the spiritual world, while other spirits of people who just died weren't ready to crossover because they had unfinished business that they felt needed to be rectified before they crossed over.

It makes sense that some spirits are not ready to cross over because they have unfinished business on earth. That must be a terrible feeling.
That is a good reason to not have unfinished business since no one knows when their end will be.

I believe it matters what a person believes about the afterlife when they die because it could affect what happens to them after death.

Now that I think about that it makes sense what a person believes when they die could affect what happens to them after death. I think that what they believe might affect what they experience. What I quoted to you before from The Afterlife Revealed is a good example of that.

“Alvin Mattson, a Lutheran minister who made his transition to the spirit world in 1970, is said to have communicated with his daughter, Ruth Mattson Taylor, Through the British medium Margaret Flavell Tweddell. He, too, reported various planes of existence. “From this point we can progress to higher planes – to higher levels of consciousness,” Mattson is quoted. “By ‘higher’ planes I do not mean spatially higher but rather those planes which have a finer vibration.” Mattson went on to say that many of the religious denominations continue to practice the rites of their respective churches on the lower or intermediate planes, where he made his abode, but that he has been permitted to visit the higher planes “where there is a unity of God-praise, not a segregation of the praise of God.”
(The Afterlife Revealed, pp. 116-117)

"A century earlier, Andrew Jackson Davis reported that many souls continue to subscribe to the same religious beliefs they held in the physical world. He referred to this sphere, or section of the sphere, as Altolissa. "Jews still believe in the doctrine of their fathers -- Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; Roman Catholics hold the same views they did before death; and there are other sects in Altolissa who think and believe in the same things and forms of faith they learned on earth," he stated, adding that they are so far below the 'higher planes' that this is required in order to make them feel 'at home.' However, all eventually evolve toward a single understanding of spirit."
(The Afterlife Revealed, pp. 117-118)

 

[Eli G]

It matters what a person believes and it matters what a person does, because all people doing things displeasing the Creator will be judge according to their acts and false beliefs won't change a thing about it, so better start knowing the truth trough God's revelation to man: His written word, the Bible.

If God say dead "are conscious of nothing at all" (Ecl. 9:5) it is truth, and the truth will make you free of lies.

No matter how many invisible demon spirits make you believe that they are your dead loved ones... those demons are not going to free you from the judgment that God will bring on those who did not accept the truth. Demons are not above God... let alone the dead.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I already had the Comcast cable technician over to my house and he looked at what has been happening with the TV in the bedroom going on all by itself. The TV is in a cabinet with the doors closed and the remote control was not anywhere where it could be turned on accidentally. When the technician tried to turn the TV on with the remote control and the cabinet closed, he could not make the TV go on.

I demonstrated what had been happening to the cable technician. After examining all my equipment and looking at all the possibilities he concluded that it had to be paranormal since there was no 'normal' explanation. You should have seen the look on his face as he drove away! It's sure a good thing I was his last call for the day. He probably hit the bar after that.

I believe that once a person has eliminated all possibilities of a natural explanation for the strange activity taking place in their home, then they should consider the possibility that what they're witnessing and experiencing is paranormal. As I've explained in previous posts (such as this one), as a psychic medium and spiritualist, I believe there are incidences of paranormal phenomena that are impossible to document and authenticate using ghost-hunting equipment, can't be logically explained by conventional science, or can legitimately be explained away by religious texts (such as the Bible) or religious dogma, both of which reject any notion that the dead can interact with and communicate with the living. I'm completely convinced that there are many supernatural occurrences in the physical world that brazenly defy scientific and religious explanation. My 44 years of experience have proven it to me.

Yes, I believe it is possible that he will not be able to communicate with me, but I won't know unless I try to communicate with him.

Based on my experience as a medium and paranormal investigator, it takes a lot of energy for the dead to communicate with the living. So, I recommend reminding your late husband that he can use the electronics to draw energy from and also providing him with some extra energy that he can draw energy from in order to be strong enough to communicate with you when the medium comes. I'm sure your husband will need help to accumulate energy. I often recommend placing 6-volt flashlight batteries on a table and letting the spirits know that they can draw their energy from the batteries. I've also used REM pods (see here) before while trying to document my interactions with some spirits in a location. The REM pod is available on Amazon as well (see here).

 

[Trailblazer]

Based on my experience as a medium and paranormal investigator, it takes a lot of energy for the dead to communicate with the living. So, I recommend reminding your late husband that he can use the electronics to draw energy from and also providing him with some extra energy that he can also draw from in order to be strong enough to communicate with you when the medium comes.

Yes, I know it takes a lot of energy since I read that in The Afterlife Revealed. As I recall, the higher the sphere the spirit resides on the more difficult it is for them to communicate to the earth plane.

I don't think a medium is going to come to my house. They usually do this over the phone but I'll know more when I get a response to my e-mail inquiry.

 

[Eli G]

It is funny how you have been sabotaging this topic that was created in a biblical discussion subforum with your private interdialogue about spiritism... It seems that you are upset with what the Bible says, and like two spoiled children you are throwing a tantrum about it.

You already know the truth that God reveals to us in the Bible about the condition of the dead:

Psal. 146:4 His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish.

Thoughts don't go with the spirit, thoughts perish.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Yes, I know it takes a lot of energy since I read that in The Afterlife Revealed. As I recall, the higher the sphere the spirit resides on the more difficult it is for them to communicate to the earth plane.

Yes, I believe that's true.

I don't think a medium is going to come to my house. They usually do this over the phone but I'll know more when I get a response to my e-mail inquiry.

I recommend having a medium come to your home. I know that some mediums are comfortable giving a reading over the phone, but I am not. I prefer to give a reading in person, face-to-face. I also prefer to be physically in a home or another location so that I can directly interact with the spirits there.

 

[Eli G]

She is offering her spiritism services
... I knew there was something weird about all this show.
and ... The show must go on.

 

[Kenny]

Oh boy oh boy. You raise another question about your beliefs now. Do you believe Jesus, the Son, was always fully human, fully God? Again, you raise some interesting questions.

LOL - yes, and probably an unending question.

My position comes from John 1:1 - The Word was God and 1:14 and The Word was made flesh and they called him Jesus.

So, as The Word, He was fully God. In the flesh we go by Philippians 2 where He emptied Himself of His God attributes and became fully man.

In His resurrection, He received back the glory He had as God and now if fully God and fully man.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I don't think a medium is going to come to my house. They usually do this over the phone but I'll know more when I get a response to my e-mail inquiry.

In any case, I wish you the best of luck. Whether the medium gives a reading over the phone or comes to your house, I still recommend not telling him anything about your late husband, having a list of questions ready to ask your late husband, reminding him about using the electronics, and providing some extra energy for him with batteries. As I've stated, I don't provide readings over the phone or virtual readings online. I prefer to travel to a location rather than give a virtual reading as a favor to a fellow paranormal investigator that I know and trust. I've traveled across the country (by car or plane) to help out a friend at a suspected haunted location or a well-known haunted location. I don't mind traveling because I can go places that I've never been before. My husband has told me that I need to get a passport so that we can travel to England (and possibly other haunted locations in Europe). He told me that he'd like to take me to England someday so that we can visit some of the most haunted places there. We both think that would be very exciting.

 

[Eli G]

tuntuntun tun tun tunten
tun tuntuntun tun tun tuntuntun
Ghost busters!!! ....

 

[Kenny]

I sure wish I had that kind of relationship with God.
At the end of this life, that is all that is going to matter, not what you 'believed' about Lazarus.

BINGO! What I believed about Lazarus is not going to matter and that was the point I was trying to make with nPeace. :

I think that anyone can have that type of relationship!

 

[Trailblazer]

I think that anyone can have that type of relationship!

Why do you think that?
If anyone could have it how come some people have it and some people don't have it?
Do you think it is easy as wanting to have it? I don't think it is that easy since there are many factors involved.

 

[Eli G]

The real relationship with God is not based on the inmortality of the soul, but in the hope of the resurrection ... if we lose our life in our loyal service to Him before the end.

1 Thess. 4:13 Moreover, brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who are sleeping in death, so that you may not sorrow as the rest do who have no hope. 14 For if we have faith that Jesus died and rose again, so too God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep in death through Jesus. (...) 18 So keep comforting one another with these words.

Paul knew that many would be asleep before being reunited with Jesus; actually, he spoke of those who were already dead at his time as "asleep in death."

1 Thess. 5:10 He died for us, so that whether we stay awake or are asleep, we should live together with him. 11 Therefore, keep encouraging one another and building one another up, just as you are in fact doing.

Logic 101: There are no souls enjoying when dead are "sleeping" until their resurrection.

1 Thess. 4:16 (...) those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them (...)

Evidently Paul didn't believe dead Christians were somehow already in heaven with Jesus.

 

[Kenny]

Why do you think that?
If anyone could have it how come some people have it and some people don't have it?
Do you think it is easy as wanting to have it? I don't think it is that easy since there are many factors involved.

Yes, I agree there are many factors but it would be on our side on not on the side of God (at least in our scriptures). He want to connect with anyone who wants to love Him

I think it isn't as complicated as we might think. IMV, we can make things more complicated.

It is like a marriage, once you say "I DO", it already is a done deal. Intimate communication is in effect so it isn't like "I want to have it" but rather, "What can I do to make the communication more fluid".

 

[Eli G]

Paul openly said that if the resurrection were not a solidly founded hope, those who were already sleeping in death were lost forever, and those who were still alive and living in Jesus would be pitifully wasting their time.

1 Cor. 15:17 Further, if Christ has not been raised up, your faith is useless; you remain in your sins. 18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in death in union with Christ have perished. 19 If in this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are to be pitied more than anyone.

Evidently he didn't believe in any intermediate life between death and resurrection.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Why do you think that?
If anyone could have it how come some people have it and some people don't have it?
Do you think it is easy as wanting to have it? I don't think it is that easy since there are many factors involved.

I sincerely believed in God for 40 years and was a devout Christian for 30 years, but I never felt close to him. It wasn't for a lack of trying, either. In further response to your post, I'm reposting what I wrote on a related topic in another thread. Other members wrote something similar to the post you replied to.

Really? So, what about those, like me, who genuinely believed in God but he never did a damn thing, and that person wasted decades of their life hoping, praying, seeking, and waiting for God to do something, anything, in their life that would show them that he is present and he loves them? Don't you think that a loving and merciful God would answer the prayers of an abused child? I ask because I was one while growing up. And now, as a former Christian, I consider praying to God like praying to a brick wall and expecting that solid wall to answer you. As far as I'm concerned, either there is no God or else he doesn't give a damn about me or about anyone else who is suffering in their life, or he plays favorites and is very picky about who he helps, and the rest of humanity be damned. In any case, I've long since decided that since God apparently didn't think I was worth his time, I no longer consider him worth mine.

I believed in, had faith in, prayed to, sought after, held onto feeble hope, and waited for God for forty years. In the meantime, I suffered years of abuse as well as bullying and neglect while growing up. And as an adult, I deal with PTSD. I've suffered years of depression and anxiety, and had an eating disorder.

That's what you believe because of your preferred Christian beliefs, but not everyone, not even every Christian, experiences what you believe.

I did for forty years, and I found nothing. I remember a scripture that states, "You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart" (Jeremiah 29:13). Well, I sought after God for forty years with all of my heart, but I never found God. I did, however, find disappointment, heartache, and a constant feeling of hopelessness because I was left all alone to deal with the abuse, bullying, and harassment on my own while I was growing up. I also had to learn how to deal with PTSD as an adult, but fortunately for me, I have a husband who has been there for me every step of the way for the past 30 and 1/2 years.

After forty years of looking for God, I discovered that either God doesn't actually exist, or if he does, he obviously doesn't give a damn about me.

On the other hand, there are those who truly seek God for years on end only to ultimately come up empty-handed, as I did. I've said this before, and I'd like to say it again: as an ex-Christian and survivor of childhood abuse, I see God as a narcissistic and abusive parent who only "loves" you when you do or say exactly what they want you to do. And you think that if you don't make them angry, they won't hurt you, but you're not sure because they have a violent temper and are known to irrationally lash out. So, if you disobey them and make them angry, there will be hell to pay. That is not a relationship based on unconditional love, but rather one based on fear and mistrust. If God exists, then I don't believe that he is worthy of my respect and reverence, let alone my love and worship. I do believe, however, that he has earned my contempt. If God exists, then he can go to hell. He obviously doesn't think I'm worth his time, and I now don't think he's worth mine. I also see God as a sadistic and psychopathic monster who delights in inflicting pain and torturing people, as well as in causing total chaos and disasters in order to inflict pain and kill people. I certainly don't see him as loving, merciful, just, or a heavenly father.

It took me many years to finally realize that believing in God was an emotional crutch for me and a total waste of my time. Sadly, I wasted forty years of my life looking for God. I realized that he might not even exist in the first place, or if he does exist, he obviously doesn't give a damn that I suffered abuse while I was growing up or that I've dealt with PTSD as an adult because of the severe abuse, trauma, and constant bullying I suffered while growing up.

I used to believe that when I was a devout Christian as well, but then I removed my rose-colored glasses and faced my reality, which was that I had been ignorant of trusting in God for so long and had mistakenly assumed he would be my heavenly father. I eventually learned how to care for myself and my family, and I finally realized that I don't need or want God in my life and that I'm far better off emotionally without believing in and having faith in God.

Finally, I decided to share what I wrote in another thread on a related topic.

In my case, I have reason to reject belief in the biblical God because I was a very devout Christian for 30 years and genuinely believed in God for years before that, but I never experienced anything that other Christians claimed happened to them, even though we believed in the same God. For example, they claimed to experience peace and joy in their lives because they believed in God, while I, on the other hand, felt nothing but sadness and despair during the years I was a devout Christian. To be honest, I only began to feel peace and joy in my life after I renounced my belief in God and abandoned Christianity. Have you ever heard of the expression "playing church?" That's exactly what I did. I went through the motions and pretended to experience God, as other Christians claimed they had, but I never did. I tried really hard to experience God, but I felt such hopelessness whenever I tried and failed.

It took me a long time to admit that I had been pretending to experience God's presence in my life when I never genuinely did. I understood I had to be honest with myself and quit pretending. I realized that I was wasting my life by pretending to feel the presence of God in my life when he either doesn't really exist or, if he does, obviously doesn't give a damn about me. A couple of years ago, I did a lot of soul-searching and had to ask myself why I was so committed to clinging to the false hope that I had in believing in God. I realized that believing in God was an emotional crutch for me. I also recognized that if I was ever going to recover emotionally and change my life for the better, I needed to let go of that crutch. My mental health and emotional well-being have significantly improved since I disavowed my belief in God and Christianity. In retrospect, it was one of the best decisions I've ever made for myself. While I don't regret my decision, I wish that I had made it years earlier so that I could have avoided decades of depression and emotional turmoil.

 

[Kenny]

Paul openly said that if the resurrection were not a solidly founded hope, those who were already sleeping in death were lost forever, and those who were still alive and living in Jesus would be pitifully wasting their time.

1 Cor. 15:17 Further, if Christ has not been raised up, your faith is useless; you remain in your sins. 18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in death in union with Christ have perished. 19 If in this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are to be pitied more than anyone.

Evidently he didn't believe in any intermediate life between death and resurrection.

I think you are reading into it but I understand that it is what you believe.

He was talking about the fact that we preach resurrection and that if the resurrection didn't happen then we have no hope for the answer to sin:

12 Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there (W)is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised; 14 and (X)if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain, your faith also is in vain.

You also have to read it within the Jewish culture and understanding of that time:

According to another midrash, sleep, like death, temporarily separates body and soul - Body and Soul | My Jewish Learning

Why does the Bible describe “death” as “sleep”?

As this metaphor is used in the Old Testament, that is where we will begin. It is related to three Hebrew words: shakab (Strongs #7901), which means “to lie down”; yashen (Strongs #3462), which mea…

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