Where are the Dead?

[nPeace]

That would be a very valid reason in my opinion.

Of course. However, our opinions aren't worth much, where Jesus is concerned.
Whether you think the Prodigal son, or the rich man and Lazarus are parables, or not, doesn't change anything.

Jesus never said He was making stuff up... but He easily could be recounting things the He saw around Him.

He didn't?
Can I suggest you read Matthew 13:10-16, and think about what you just said.
Verse 34 sums it up. (Matthew 13:34, 35) 34 All these things Jesus spoke to the crowds by illustrations. Indeed, without an illustration he would not speak to them, 35 in order to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet who said: “I will open my mouth with illustrations; I will proclaim things hidden since the founding.”

Also, it might help to have a dictionary handy.
Then look up the words illustration, and parable.

None of those references are words from God. Those are words of man and Luke 16 says there is no way back from their side to the mortal realm..

Is this how you speak about God's prophets?

(Luke 24:44, 45) 44 He then said to them: “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was yet with you, that all the things written about me in the Law of Moses and in the Prophets and Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then he opened up their minds fully to grasp the meaning of the Scriptures,

(Luke 24:25-27) 25 So he said to them: “O senseless ones and slow of heart to believe all the things the prophets have spoken! 26 Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into his glory?” 27 And starting with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them things pertaining to himself in all the Scriptures.

(Acts 2:29-31) 29 “Men, brothers, it is permissible to speak with freeness of speech to you about the family head David, that he died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Because he was a prophet and knew that God had sworn to him with an oath that he would seat one of his offspring on his throne, 31 he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he forsaken in the Grave nor did his flesh see corruption.
2 Timothy 3:16, 17; 2 Peter 1:21

Christendom's members discredit the Bible, to the glory of Satan.
It is no wonder God says this of false religion...
(Revelation 17:2) . . .earth’s inhabitants were made drunk with the wine of her sexual immorality.. . .
(Revelation 18:4, 5) 4 And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues. 5 For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind.

God can bridge that gap... but the dead can not.

The Creator was changing the natural courae of His creation. No agreement or disagreement with any verses. I dont follow your reasoning.

...but you are disagreeing.
You also discredited the word of God, and the prophets of God, when you said this... "None of those references are words from God. Those are words of man".

So why not believe what Jesus said death was like in Luke?

I agree with what Jesus said. It's clear from Luke why he gave the illustration, and what it meant.

Why argue if you say the Bible is correct... that is the point I am making.

Argue. I'm not arguing. I'm pointing out truths to you.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

All true. Not stories. History.

Yes, I'm sure that's what you believe, but that's just your personal opinion of these biblical stories. FYI, the forum staff generally disapproves of and prohibits a member from declaring their religious beliefs as if they were absolute truth. See Rule 8 of the forum rules for further explanation.

 

[dwb001]

Of course. However, our opinions aren't worth much, where Jesus is concerned.
Whether you think the Prodigal son, or the rich man and Lazarus are parables, or not, doesn't change anything.

Then why is someone else's opinion valid to say that they are not factual?
Yes it does change things in this case.
it changes from a moral lesson to an observation of the afterlife. Those things are very different in significant ways.

He didn't?
Can I suggest you read Matthew 13:10-16, and think about what you just said.
Verse 34 sums it up. (Matthew 13:34, 35) 34 All these things Jesus spoke to the crowds by illustrations. Indeed, without an illustration he would not speak to them, 35 in order to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet who said: “I will open my mouth with illustrations; I will proclaim things hidden since the founding.”

That is Matthew's opinion. Jesus did not say He was using illustrations... Mathew did. Do you see how that changes things?

Also, it might help to have a dictionary handy.
Then look up the words illustration, and parable.

Not Jesus saying those things. Mathew's commentary.

Is this how you speak about God's prophets?

How do you know that Jesus was referring to the same passages you are?

(Luke 24:44, 45) 44 He then said to them: “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was yet with you, that all the things written about me in the Law of Moses and in the Prophets and Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then he opened up their minds fully to grasp the meaning of the Scriptures,

(Luke 24:25-27) 25 So he said to them: “O senseless ones and slow of heart to believe all the things the prophets have spoken! 26 Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into his glory?” 27 And starting with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them things pertaining to himself in all the Scriptures.

(Acts 2:29-31) 29 “Men, brothers, it is permissible to speak with freeness of speech to you about the family head David, that he died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Because he was a prophet and knew that God had sworn to him with an oath that he would seat one of his offspring on his throne, 31 he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he forsaken in the Grave nor did his flesh see corruption.
2 Timothy 3:16, 17; 2 Peter 1:21

Christendom's members discredit the Bible, to the glory of Satan.
It is no wonder God says this of false religion...
(Revelation 17:2) . . .earth’s inhabitants were made drunk with the wine of her sexual immorality.. . .

Why are tou conflating false religionwith sexual immorality? Beware of Rev 22:18-19

(Revelation 18:4, 5) 4 And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues. 5 For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind.

Injustice and sexual immoralitydo not equate with false religion.

...but you are disagreeing.
You also discredited the word of God, and the prophets of God, when you said this... "None of those references are words from God. Those are words of man".

The references you provided appear to be just as i have said.

I agree with what Jesus said. It's clear from Luke why he gave the illustration, and what it meant.

So there is a physical place called hell and another called death that are side by side with a chasm between. A real litteral place.

Argue. I'm not arguing. I'm pointing out truths to you.

Nope... a truth is... here is the reference and what it says. Not fighting words as you have used above.

 

[Trailblazer]

Then why.did you lie and use the word know in your post?

I did not lie. I meant that most Christians believe that.

Know... Bible says so.

You do not know. You only believe.

 

[Trailblazer]

There are Christians who believe the stories about a talking serpent and donkey and a man who allegedly survived in the belly of a big fish for three days.

Yes, I know that. The Bible says so so it must be true.

 

[dwb001]

I did not lie. I meant that most Christians believe that.

So what you said and what you meant were not aligned. Ok.

You do not know. You only believe.

I belive the Bible accurately recorded certain facts. I have good evidence to believe my belief is well founded. Therefor I can know as good as anyone can know about historical events.

 

[dwb001]

Yes, I know that. The Bible says so so it must be true.

Or we can base it on evidence from the observable world and see if that aligns with the historical account.

 

[Trailblazer]

So there is a physical place called hell and another called death that are side by side with a chasm between. A real litteral place.

Do you know that or do you only believe that? You cannot know that unless you have been to these places.

 

[Trailblazer]

I belive the Bible accurately recorded certain facts. I have good evidence to believe my belief is well founded. Therefor I can know as good as anyone can know about historical events.

I am not very familiar with the Bible or history so I don't know one way or another. I cannot even weigh in with a belief.

 

[dwb001]

Do you know that or do you only believe that? You cannot know that unless you have been to these places.

I can trust the word of someone who has been.

Do you know there was an Alexander the Great or do you only believe?

 

[dwb001]

I am not very familiar with the Bible or history so I don't know one way or another. I cannot even weigh in with a belief.

So why the ask?

 

[Trailblazer]

Or we can base it on evidence from the observable world and see if that aligns with the historical account.

Does it? Which historical account?

 

[dwb001]

Does it? Which historical account?

The Bible.

 

[Trailblazer]

I can trust the word of someone who has been.

You know someone who has been to hell?

Do you know there was an Alexander the Great or do you only believe?

I don't know or believe since I never thought about it.

 

[dwb001]

You know someone who has been to hell?

Yep.

I don't know or believe since I never thought about it.

Maybe you should try.

 

[Trailblazer]

So why the ask?

Did I ask?

 

[Trailblazer]

Yep.

Do you know them personally?

Maybe you should try.

I live in the present. I don't care about ancient history.

 

[dwb001]

Do you know them personally?

Yes.

I live in the present. I don't care about ancient history.

Do you not read books... all that is history.

So nothing is of value if it is past ???how many years?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I am not very familiar with the Bible or history so I don't know one way or another. I cannot even weigh in with a belief.

I am well-versed in the Bible and ancient history, and in my opinion (based on my research), the Bible is not a reliable source of information and truth.

 

[dwb001]

I am well-versed in the Bible and ancient history, and in my opinion (based on my research), the Bible is not a reliable source of information and truth.

Evidence of your opinion?