Where are the Dead?

[David1967]

Does the Bible influence what you believe, in any way. Or do you go with what feels right to you?

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. I hope not, I was just trying to honestly convey my thoughts. To answer your question, of course the Bible influences what I think, I was raised in and still go to church. I do in fact believe in God and an afterlife. My comment has nothing to do with "what feels right to me." I do believe that the Bible can be used to pick and choose from here and there several after death scenarios regarding the resurrection and consciousness after death. The fact that we have hundreds, or more, denominations with myriad views about this attests to this. I do believe we go on after this life, the order of events is not in my hands.

 

[David1967]

Given my past discussions with some religious people about the afterlife, I think that you're probably more accurate in your gut feelings than they are with their religious beliefs about what happens to people after death. Even those of the same religion can't agree on what happens to people after death, but they all think they're right. Of course, they're only sharing their personal beliefs about the afterlife based on their preferred version of their religion. Some religious people claim to know based on their preferred religious beliefs, church doctrines, and religious texts, but in my opinion, they're just speculating like the rest of us. I believe that none of us truly knows what will happen to us after we die. We can speculate about it all we want or base our beliefs on a holy book, but we won't know for sure until we die and cross over. The spirit world could be entirely different from what they expected. I believe the same will be true for those who don't believe in an afterlife. I'm a spiritualist, and I've wondered about what the afterlife would be like, but I can't say I know for certain. I've already shared what I believe earlier in this thread and in others. If you'd like to read the posts, just ask, and I'll provide you with some links.

I agree with you and I imagine that the next world will be quite different than what we can imagine in our present limited form. I seriously doubt it will be walking around in white robes on literal streets of gold, but who really knows. We tend to be victims of our raising regarding our religious beliefs, for better or for worse. A terrible concept would be that we pass over to the next life and are just as ignorant as we are here. That would be a let down. Hopefully, this life is a school, a learning experience, to help us in our growth as a sentient being.

 

[YoursTrue]

Given my past discussions with some religious people about the afterlife, I think that you're probably more accurate in your gut feelings than they are with their religious beliefs about what happens to people after death. Even those of the same religion can't agree on what happens to people after death, but they all think they're right. Of course, they're only sharing their personal beliefs about the afterlife based on their preferred version of their religion. Some religious people claim to know based on their preferred religious beliefs, church doctrines, and religious texts, but in my opinion, they're just speculating like the rest of us. I believe that none of us truly knows what will happen to us after we die. We can speculate about it all we want or base our beliefs on a holy book, but we won't know for sure until we die and cross over. The spirit world could be entirely different from what they expected. I believe the same will be true for those who don't believe in an afterlife. I'm a spiritualist, and I've wondered about what the afterlife would be like, but I can't say I know for certain. I've already shared what I believe earlier in this thread and in others. If you'd like to read the posts, just ask, and I'll provide you with some links.

I hate to enter this discussion but as a spiritualist, has any dead living kind of person answered you as to it's like?

 

[YoursTrue]

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. I hope not, I was just trying to honestly convey my thoughts. To answer your question, of course the Bible influences what I think, I was raised in and still go to church. I do in fact believe in God and an afterlife. My comment has nothing to do with "what feels right to me." I do believe that the Bible can be used to pick and choose from here and there several after death scenarios regarding the resurrection and consciousness after death. The fact that we have hundreds, or more, denominations with myriad views about this attests to this. I do believe we go on after this life, the order of events is not in my hands.

I would not think that is a sarcastic question but realistic. For instance at what age might a child recognize good or bad? By what type of candy he likes? And I'm not being funny or sarcastic here, just reasonable and logical...

 

[YoursTrue]

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. I hope not, I was just trying to honestly convey my thoughts. To answer your question, of course the Bible influences what I think, I was raised in and still go to church. I do in fact believe in God and an afterlife. My comment has nothing to do with "what feels right to me." I do believe that the Bible can be used to pick and choose from here and there several after death scenarios regarding the resurrection and consciousness after death. The fact that we have hundreds, or more, denominations with myriad views about this attests to this. I do believe we go on after this life, the order of events is not in my hands.

I guess if a person gets caught stealing and goes to prison maybe or maybe not he won't do it again. Maybe because he's afraid of getting caught. Maybe not.

 

[nPeace]

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

Oh no. Don't think the worst. It was a genuine question.

I hope not,

I though I was usually clear when I am being sarcastic. I guess I was wrong.
I'm not being sarcastic. I put the question that way based on my experience talking to others, who express that. It's just a question. Nothing to it.

I was just trying to honestly convey my thoughts. To answer your question, of course the Bible influences what I think, I was raised in and still go to church. I do in fact believe in God and an afterlife.

Good to know that the Bible influences your life.
I'm being genuine when I say, I hope that doesn't change. So many don't seem to know where to stand, and they are like shifting sands. For the Bible. Against the Bible.
I don't know if you have observed that on these forums.

My comment has nothing to do with "what feels right to me." I do believe that the Bible can be used to pick and choose from here and there several after death scenarios regarding the resurrection and consciousness after death. The fact that we have hundreds, or more, denominations with myriad views about this attests to this. I do believe we go on after this life, the order of events is not in my hands.

In other words, you believe that death is not the end of it all. Is that right?
I share that belief. God is, amd he becomes the rewarder of all those seeking him... even after they have died. Hebrews 11:6
Thanks for sharing that.

 

[nPeace]

I agree with you and I imagine that the next world will be quite different than what we can imagine in our present limited form. I seriously doubt it will be walking around in white robes on literal streets of gold, but who really knows. We tend to be victims of our raising regarding our religious beliefs, for better or for worse. A terrible concept would be that we pass over to the next life and are just as ignorant as we are here. That would be a let down. Hopefully, this life is a school, a learning experience, to help us in our growth as a sentient being.

This is a genuine question. Why do you say, "Who really knows"?
Can I ask a few questions.

1. Do you believe Jesus's followers in the first century knew the truth? (1 John 4:6)
2. Do you believe Jesus has true followers on earth today, who know the truth? Matthew 24:45
3. Do you believe this scripture is true - John 8:31, 32, and applies to all of Jesus' followers - past, and present?

 

[metis]

Can I ask a few questions.

1. Do you believe Jesus's followers in the first century knew the truth? (1 John 4:6)
2. Do you believe Jesus has true followers on earth today, who know the truth? Matthew 24:45
3. Do you believe this scripture is true - John 8:31, 32, and applies to all of Jesus' followers - past, and present?

What about the scriptures in other religions? What about people who lived before Jesus' time or who lived in a different part of the world?

 

[nPeace]

What about the scriptures in other religions? What about people who lived before Jesus' time or who lived in a different part of the world?

There are many scriptures written. I'd have to research which copies are older than the Torah. However, the prophets of God (Jehovah/Yahweh) prophesied about a coming Messiah - the annointed one of God - Savior and redeemer of the world.

When Jesus came on the scene, he was identified by some, as that one, and he gained followers.
Jesus said, I... am the way... the truth... and the life. No one comes to the father, except through me.
He said, he came to bear witness to the truth, about his father, which had not been told for centuries.

True, many do not believe that Jesus is the true Messiah, his credentials identified him as the Messiah, to many followers... such as Peter, James, John, Paul... and millions today.
What about you. Do you believe Jesus? Do you believe Jesus is the way... the truth... and the life, and no one comes to the father, except through him?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I agree with you and I imagine that the next world will be quite different than what we can imagine in our present limited form. I seriously doubt it will be walking around in white robes on literal streets of gold, but who really knows. We tend to be victims of our raising regarding our religious beliefs, for better or for worse. A terrible concept would be that we pass over to the next life and are just as ignorant as we are here. That would be a let down. Hopefully, this life is a school, a learning experience, to help us in our growth as a sentient being.

I agree that no one truly knows for certain. Yes, we tend to be victims of our upbringing regarding our religious beliefs, for better or for worse. I was once, but I deconverted from Christianity and no longer believe what I used to believe about the afterlife and the spirit world. I know that you're a Christian, so I realize that you most likely won't agree with my personal opinion of the Bible or my belief in the paranormal, and that's fine with me. To each his own.

However, I like how you have an open mind. I don't see that very often with Christians. Honestly, I've had far too many up-close and personal experiences with supernatural phenomena during my lifetime to continue believing what the Bible claims will happen in the afterlife. I will say that these experiences have only reinforced what I believe about the Bible after studying it. Finally, I'd like to say that I've enjoyed our conversation and hope that it will continue.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

The Works of Bahá'u'lláh

Given the recent posts on the topic, I'd like to reiterate that I'm grateful to you for inspiring me to overcome my former beliefs in the Christian devil. The posts reminded me of what I said to you a few weeks ago about my former beliefs in the Christian devil and demons. I would like to re-post it here.

I'd like to say that I appreciate you sharing your Baha'i beliefs about demons and Satan. It helped me realize that I was still holding onto the belief in them from my old Christian indoctrination and needed to let it go, and it prompted me to reevaluate my viewpoint on nonhuman entities. As I read your posts, I finally realized that my belief in demons and Satan was the last remnant of my indoctrination that needed to be abandoned and allowed to die out. Prior to reading your posts and actively participating in this thread, I had never given much thought to my beliefs about them. I turned to my Wiccan friends for guidance, and they told me that they too held onto their Christian beliefs about demons and Satan when they first began to practice Wicca and that it took them some time to overcome these beliefs and let them go. I had a vague idea of what Wiccans believe about demons and Satan, but as I said, I didn't think much of it until I read your posts and began to participate in this thread. My friends believe that demons and Satan represent the harmful or negative impulses within us and are not evil entities (fallen angels), as Christianity teaches. However, some Wiccans, I was told, believe in external demons, but they are not malevolent nonhuman entities with personalities and the intent to deceive humans. It is merely a means to describe the manifestation of negative emotional energy, which I compared to the poltergeist activity attributed to a highly stressed living person. I also discovered that Wiccans, like Baha'is, do not recognize Satan as a real entity. I find it somewhat ironic that my participation in this thread (with the OP's attempt to prove the existence of demons) contributed in part to my recent decision to abandon my previous beliefs about demons and Satan. I consider that to be a positive influence.

 

[metis]

There are many scriptures written. I'd have to research which copies are older than the Torah. However, the prophets of God (Jehovah/Yahweh) prophesied about a coming Messiah - the annointed one of God - Savior and redeemer of the world.

That's not dealing with my question. Didn't God care about anyone before 2000 years ago and/or may not even know who Jesus was?

What about you. Do you believe Jesus? Do you believe Jesus is the way... the truth... and the life, and no one comes to the father, except through him?

I believe in him, but I don't believe he's the only path to God.

 

[Trailblazer]

Didn't God care about anyone before 2000 years ago

Sure He did.

 

[YoursTrue]

@nPeace as a sidenote, John 14:6 if a person denies that, he is making Jesus to be deluded and/or a liar. Not saying what anyone should believe, only what is written. Each to his own as the saying goes.

 

[Trailblazer]

@nPeace as a sidenote, John 14:6 if a person denies that, he is making Jesus to be deluded and/or a liar.

Only if Jesus wrote that, and we all know that Jesus did not write that verse.

Besides, the verse does not say:

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man can ever cometh unto the Father, but by me.

I believe that Jesus was the Way to the Father during the Christian dispensation, but that dispensation is now over.

Dispensation

1. the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
2. an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
3. a divinely appointed order or age:

the old Mosaic, or Jewish, dispensation; the new gospel, or Christian, dispensation.

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

 

[Colt]

@nPeace as a sidenote, John 14:6 if a person denies that, he is making Jesus to be deluded and/or a liar. Not saying what anyone should believe, only what is written. Each to his own as the saying goes.

Since Jesus is also God all salvaged souls on earth will go through him to the Father. Jesus isn’t a new way, he has always been the way to the Father for his children.

A Muslim praying in Bangladesh is heard by the Father just like a Christian in Kansas!

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Only if Jesus wrote that, and we all know that Jesus did not write that verse.

Besides, the verse does not say:

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man can ever cometh unto the Father, but by me.

I believe that Jesus was the Way to the Father during the Christian dispensation, but that dispensation is now over.

Dispensation

1. the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
2. an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
3. a divinely appointed order or age:

the old Mosaic, or Jewish, dispensation; the new gospel, or Christian, dispensation.

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

I have my own opinions about the biblical stories of Jesus, but I'll just post a link to another post rather than repost what I wrote in the other thread.

Atheists and their jargon of insults

As i already stated, his claim that he cannot be sure a god exists makes pretty sound case for him not being a hard atheist I don't think he's ever identified himself as a hard atheist. In The God Delusion he introduced a seven point scale, from 1, meaning hard theists, who are 100% sure of...

www.religiousforums.com

 

[Colt]

I have my own opinions about the biblical stories of Jesus, but I'll just post a link to another post rather than repost what I wrote in the other thread.

Atheists and their jargon of insults

As i already stated, his claim that he cannot be sure a god exists makes pretty sound case for him not being a hard atheist I don't think he's ever identified himself as a hard atheist. In The God Delusion he introduced a seven point scale, from 1, meaning hard theists, who are 100% sure of...

www.religiousforums.com

If the Father and Son are sovereign creators then we can either accept it or not.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

If the Father and Son are sovereign creators then we can either accept it or not.

The biblical accounts of God and Jesus are as credible to me as the myths of Zeus and Ares. In other words, I consider the Bible to be a conglomeration of embellished stories, contradictory teachings, and plagiarized myths derived from Greek mythology and other pagan religions that predate the Bible and Christianity. I have yet to see any substantial evidence to convince me otherwise, but in my opinion, there is plenty to convince me that I no longer need to believe in the Bible, God, or Jesus. If you're interested, I further explained in my previous posts (linked below) why I no longer believe as I once did.

Is It Reasonable to Believe Gods Don't Exist?

Oh the irony. If you aren't able to support your claims why did you make them? How are atheists not reasonable in not believing in a God? Is there a problem for you not showing us you were correct? You're doing it again.

www.religiousforums.com

Can we change our mind about what we believe?

I am personally struggling with this topic. As I started out by saying, I'm highly reluctant to make statements about God's nature. Because I interact with God, it is very difficult for me not to think of him in terms of a "person." However, it is also true that I perceive God imperfectly...

www.religiousforums.com

 

[Colt]

The biblical accounts of God and Jesus are as credible to me as the myths of Zeus and Ares. In other words, I consider the Bible to be a conglomeration of embellished stories, contradictory teachings, and plagiarized myths derived from Greek mythology and other pagan religions that predate the Bible and Christianity. I have yet to see any substantial evidence to convince me otherwise, but in my opinion, there is plenty to convince me that I no longer need to believe in the Bible, God, or Jesus. If you're interested, I further explained in my previous posts (linked below) why I no longer believe as I once did.

Is It Reasonable to Believe Gods Don't Exist?

Oh the irony. If you aren't able to support your claims why did you make them? How are atheists not reasonable in not believing in a God? Is there a problem for you not showing us you were correct? You're doing it again.

www.religiousforums.com

Can we change our mind about what we believe?

I am personally struggling with this topic. As I started out by saying, I'm highly reluctant to make statements about God's nature. Because I interact with God, it is very difficult for me not to think of him in terms of a "person." However, it is also true that I perceive God imperfectly...

www.religiousforums.com

I know, we’ve exchanged posts before, it is entirely your choice which comes with free will.