Where are the people?

[loverofhumanity]

That would be nice.
Evidence is lacking

I think most people are interested in quality of life and cost of living but in some nations the governments drag the people into unwanted conflicts messing their lives up. Eventually this results in a huge backlash against these conflicts and people begin to demand peace.

People do not need to change or adopt a new religion to have world peace. We are just an insignificant minority trying to promote world peace.

 

[Audie]

I think most people are interested in quality of life and cost of living but in some nations the governments drag the people into unwanted conflicts messing their lives up. Eventually this results in a huge backlash against these conflicts and people begin to demand peace.

People do not need to change or adopt a new religion to have world peace. We are just an insignificant minority trying to promote world peace.

Most are like that, aleays have been;
peace, on their terms

 

[ppp]

Most are like that, aleays have been;
peace, on their terms

Their terms is for your own good, you know?

 

[danieldemol]

I was saying you want so much to appear to win that you use any means you can to do that. Sorry if that was not clear, but I think it was.

I didn't say it was unclear, I said it was ad-hominem and it still is in my view.

The statement above also shows a desire also to win, never mind what the truth actually is.

No it doesn't, ad-hominem in place of refutation is just a tactic of the apologist who subconsciously sensing they dont have a valid response divert attention to the character of their opponents in my view.

It's not just you, I see that tendency often here. I come here less and less over time because I don't see people learning from each other hardly at all. That's ideally what a religious forum should do. Interfaith groups do that, they don't argue, they learn from each other, find what they have in common.

Learning involves more than merely seeking common ground in my view, it also involves examination of reality to find which if any of 2 or more mutually exclusive views is most closely aligned to reality.

When Western civilization made competition and debate their way of doing things it took the wrong path.

I disagree, the extent to which sciences prospered in the non-muslim world is testimony to the value of respectful debate (by respectful i mean free of ad-hominem, not seeking to agree)

Our dialogue shouldn't be about winning, but about learning from each other.

But when ad-hominem is tossed about so freely it impedes the ability to learn, as does the view that one's own view (or that of anotger) is divinely revealed truth in my opinion.

Anyway, in principle, we are seen as one global homeland by everyone, and all of our nations are aware of the global implications of what we do, because the world is interconnected.

I partially disagree, you appear to be changing the meaning of "everyone" to many or most, that looks like post-hoc rationalisation to me.

Why do I even post to people like you? I won't "win", and you probably will learn nothing from it.

There is nothing to learn other than about the psychology of those who are prepared to change the meaning of words thereby shifting the goalposts of alleged prophecy to post-hoc rationalise them in my view.

 

[Audie]

Exactly, it's not a two-way street. The Baha'is and other sects of some religions believe they "know" they are right... no matter what anybody says against them. They believe the problem is with those of us who disagree with them... that we are blind to the truth of their religion.

But, if their ultimate goal is unity, then I think they should find ways to understand and respect opposing views. But I also understand that they really can't. Anything those of us say or believe about the Baha'i Faith, that doesn't support their beliefs, has to be wrong.

I want no "unity" with insensible people

 

[Audie]

I didn't say it was unclear, I said it was ad-hominem and it still is in my view.

No it doesn't, ad-hominem in place of reputation is just a tactic of the apologist who subconsciously sensing they dont have a valid response divert attention to the character of their opponents in my view.

Learning involves more than merely seeking common ground in my view, it also involves examination of reality to find which if any of 2 or more mutually exclusive views is most closely aligned to reality.

I disagree, the extent to which sciences prospered in the non-muslim world is testimony to the value of respectful debate (by respectful i mean free of ad-hominem, not seeking to agree)

But when ad-hominem is tossed about so freely it impedes the ability to learn, as does the view that one's own view (or that of anotger) is divinely revealed truth in my opinion.

I partially disagree, you appear to be changing the meaning of "everyone" to many or most, that looks like post-hoc rationalisation to me.

There is nothing to learn other than about the psychology of those who are prepared to change the meaning of words thereby shifting the goalposts of alleged prophecy to post-hoc rationalise them in my view.

Winner frubal​

 

[CG Didymus]

People do not need to change or adopt a new religion to have world peace. We are just an insignificant minority trying to promote world peace.

Hmmm? God supposedly sent his prophet to get people to believe in his new laws that are designed to bring peace and unity to the world... But people don't need to change or adopt those new laws and teachings?

I want no "unity" with insensible people

Then, like Audie says, why are Baha'is pushing their religion and their teachings as necessary? If it's not necessary, then Baha'is should act like it and talk like it and support Humanists. They also say that your religion and other religions aren't necessary to bring peace and unity.

But, I think, Baha'is are saying that their laws and beliefs are necessary. And because of that, some of us are turned off by the Baha'i Faith and reject the Baha'is as being "insensible".

 

[sayak83]

I think most people are interested in quality of life and cost of living but in some nations the governments drag the people into unwanted conflicts messing their lives up. Eventually this results in a huge backlash against these conflicts and people begin to demand peace.

People do not need to change or adopt a new religion to have world peace. We are just an insignificant minority trying to promote world peace.

This I support. True unity will only be achieved when PPL learn to work together despite their religious, ethnic, linguistic and national differences.

 

[Audie]

Hmmm? God supposedly sent his prophet to get people to believe in his new laws that are designed to bring peace and unity to the world... But people don't need to change or adopt those new laws and teachings?


Then, like Audie says, why are Baha'is pushing their religion and their teachings as necessary? If it's not necessary, then Baha'is should act like it and talk like it and support Humanists. They also say that your religion and other religions aren't necessary to bring peace and unity.

But, I think, Baha'is are saying that their laws and beliefs are necessary. And because of that, some of us are turned off by the Baha'i Faith and reject the Baha'is as being "insensible".

"Insensible" is the mildest word I'm
willing to use.

 

[Audie]

This I support. True unity will only be achieved when PPL learn to work together despite their religious, ethnic, linguistic and national differences.

What is "unity"? Let alone "true" unity?

And what is " work together"? On what?

I've worked, still do with Americans, British, Japanese
Malay...

S'pore, you need at least three languages!

Why would I care their shade of tan?

Religion, ethnicity etc aren't a problem.

How people conduct themselves, that's where
cooperation or conflict come in.

Disaster is around the corner every time someone tries
to impose their ideals via social engineering.
Every time.
Conflict is innate to people. It's like you want teams
to cooperate at soccer!

Work toward defeating human nature in the name of
some slogan like " true unity" and you will have me
out to defeat you.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Then, like Audie says, why are Baha'is pushing their religion and their teachings as necessary? If it's not necessary, then Baha'is should act like it and talk like it and support Humanists. They also say that your religion and other religions aren't necessary to bring peace and unity.

But, I think, Baha'is are saying that their laws and beliefs are necessary. And because of that, some of us are turned off by the Baha'i Faith and reject the Baha'is as being "insensible".

The Bahai works alongside all that work for the peace and security of all humanity.

A key thought lays within these quote given by Baha'u'llah.

"The Great Peace towards which people of goodwill throughout the centuries have inclined their hearts, of which seers and poets for countless generations have expressed their vision, and for which from age to age the sacred scriptures of mankind have constantly held the promise, is now at long last within the reach of the nations. For the first time in history it is possible for everyone to view the entire planet, with all its myriad diversified peoples, in one perspective. World peace is not only possible but inevitable."

"The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established..."

Then following in from above quote this is offered.

".......This unity can never be achieved so long as the counsels which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed are suffered to pass unheeded." — Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, CXXXI

Given thay advice, how is unity going to happen, without acceptance of the Councels God has given us?

Regards Tony

 

[Audie]

The Bahai works alongside all that work for the peace and security of all humanity.

A key thought lays within these quote given by Baha'u'llah.

"The Great Peace towards which people of goodwill throughout the centuries have inclined their hearts, of which seers and poets for countless generations have expressed their vision, and for which from age to age the sacred scriptures of mankind have constantly held the promise, is now at long last within the reach of the nations. For the first time in history it is possible for everyone to view the entire planet, with all its myriad diversified peoples, in one perspective. World peace is not only possible but inevitable."

"The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established..."

Then following in from above quote this is offered.

".......This unity can never be achieved so long as the counsels which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed are suffered to pass unheeded." — Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, CXXXI

Given thay advice, how is unity going to happen, without acceptance of the Councels God has given us?

Regards Tony

Aceept made up "Councels" from an imaginary
"God" delivered by phony prophet with
20 times the words needed?
Right.
If thats key to peace it's never ever ever
going to happen.

 

[ppp]

I disagree, the extent to which sciences prospered in the non-muslim world is testimony to the value of respectful debate (by respectful i mean free of ad-hominem, not seeking to agree)

This is such an important and overlooked point. They don't understand that conflict is not an evil to be avoided, but an inevitable reality that is to be resolved. And that shaming conflict prevents respectful resolution. Effective resolution. Not to mention the understanding of how to hold to create and defend appropriate boundaries.

 

[ppp]

Given thay advice, how is unity going to happen, without acceptance of the Councels God has given us?

A peace will never be achieved so long as a god, any god, is part of the foundation for mutual tolerance.

 

[Trailblazer]

A peace will never be achieved so long as a god, any god, is part of the foundation for mutual tolerance.

Why not?

 

[ppp]

Why not?

I would not accept or support a social contract that was based on a lie. Would you?

 

[CG Didymus]

The Bahai works alongside all that work for the peace and security of all humanity.

A key thought lays within these quote given by Baha'u'llah.

"The Great Peace towards which people of goodwill throughout the centuries have inclined their hearts, of which seers and poets for countless generations have expressed their vision, and for which from age to age the sacred scriptures of mankind have constantly held the promise, is now at long last within the reach of the nations. For the first time in history it is possible for everyone to view the entire planet, with all its myriad diversified peoples, in one perspective. World peace is not only possible but inevitable."

"The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established..."

Then following in from above quote this is offered.

".......This unity can never be achieved so long as the counsels which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed are suffered to pass unheeded." — Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, CXXXI

Given thay advice, how is unity going to happen, without acceptance of the Councels God has given us?

Regards Tony

But Baha'is aren't connecting with most people here on the forum. And a lot of them are a certain type of people... People that don't believe in the claims made by religious people about their Gods and prophets. And I keep saying that I believe that Baha'is have more in common with Atheist than trinitarian Christians. Both agree that the trinitarian God is not real. Yet, Baha'is say their God is real.

As long as Baha'is make it mandatory to believe in their version of God, then they will never connect with them. Now if you don't bring up religion... or politics and which sports teams you like, then sure, you can probably work together. But that's not what's happening here. Lots of religious people think that their beliefs are the absolute truth. And they love to tell others all about it. How do work with people like that

 

[CG Didymus]

Aceept made up "Councels" from an imaginary
"God" delivered by phony prophet with
20 times the words needed?
Right.
If thats key to peace it's never ever ever
going to happen.

The councils of which God? One God said that if you cut out the heart of a human or throw a virgin into a volcano, that he'll be happy. Another God said that anyone breaking his laws should be killed.

The Baha'i God said that all nations should disarm. Okay, what if all the nations do that? Or... say they did that? What's going to happen when one or more nations was holding out? And why wouldn't they? Is their God going to intervene and punish them? Or, as what seems to happen, just let things play out and with his next prophet say that if only you had followed God's rules exactly, it would have worked.

In the meantime, the world is enslaved and held captive to a nation that hid guns and bombs and missiles.

 

[Trailblazer]

I would not accept or support a social contract that was based on a lie. Would you?

What lie?

 

[InChrist]

Perhaps in part because "the problems of other countries" are too often "our" legacy.

It’s a shame that’s the way it is. If our government was minding its own business, properly focusing on its responsibilities here in the USA, rather than trying to be a world empire there wouldn’t be a legacy of problems in other countries.