WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT IS ABOLISHED?

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel said: No not at all. According to the scriptures before the spoken and written words of God given at Mt Sinai Gods people where given the spoken words of God through direct revelation by God. When God says in Genesis 26:5 5, Because that Abraham (1) obeyed my voice, and (2) kept my charge, (3) my commandments, (4) my statutes, and (5) my laws. (look up the Hebrew word meaning for laws). Gods people not only had the knowledge of good and evil and knew what sin was but also had and practiced the laws of atonement of animal sacrifices and sin offerings of the old testament.

So we are not talking about the written Word of God here but the spoken Words of God revealed directly by God to those who believed and followed God. According to the scriptures, Gods 10 commandments give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD (moral right doing when obeyed) and EVIL (moral wrong doing when disobeyed); SIN (moral wrong doing when disobeyed); and RIGHTEOUSNESS (moral right doing when obeyed) - see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and Psalms 119:172. According to the scriptures, this knowledge of good and evil was given to Adam and Eve at the fall (see Genesis 3:1-5 compare Genesis 3:22). So according to the scriptures God revealed His laws to His people prior to Exodus 20 and Mt Sinai. So the purpose of Gods law according to the scriptures is to give us the knowledge of right doing (righteousness) when obeyed and sin when disobeyed. Gods 10 commandments give us the knowledge of good and evil; sin and righteousness.

To further support the scriptures shared about do a bible word search on sin in the old testament pre-Exodus in Genesis and you will see that Gods people had this knowledge of good and evil and what sin was as defined in the scriptures. If sin is defined in the scriptures as the transgression of Gods law and not believing and following what Gods Word says in 1 John 3:4 and Romans 14:23 then it is nonsense to believe that God's people prior to Exodus 20 did not know what sin was and were all living in known unrepentant sin and that there was no difference between them and the wicked that God destroyed by a flood because they were sinning.

Your response here...

" people where given the spoken words of God through direct revelation by God "
And what is one's source of knowing that exactly, please, right?
And how does one know that it were 10 commandments revealed on Moses, please?

As we have it today we know that before the written Word of God after Exodus 20 we have the direct spoken word of God (e.g. Genesis 3:1-22; 6:18; 9:9; 9:11-17; 15:8; 17:2-21; 21:32; 31:44 etc etc). In the time of Moses in the Exodus God revealed the 10 commandments to Moses at Mt Siana and the Israelite's by the spoken Word of God and the recorded written words of God see Exodus 20:3-17 and Exodus 32:16.

Take Care.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

You are being dishonest now.

You don't get it. If you want a conversation with me, you will treat me with respect. You spent all that time writing your novel, and I simply deleted it without reading it because you accused me of lying.

 

[3rdAngel]

You don't get it. If you want a conversation with me, you will treat me with respect. You spent all that time writing your novel, and I simply deleted it without reading it because you accused me of lying.

Please forgive me but I believe it is you who does not get it as you say. It is not disrespecting you to provide scripture disagreeing with you proving that Gods people had Gods laws and believed and obeyed them before Mt Sinai. If you read what was posted to you earlier I never said you were lying that is you misrepresenting what I said once more. You can read and respond to the post and scripture content that is in disagreement with you or not. That is up to you.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Please forgive me but I believe it is you who does not get it as you say. It is not disrespecting you to provide scripture disagreeing with you proving that Gods people had Gods laws and believed and obeyed them before Mt Sinai. If you read what was posted to you earlier I never said you were lying that is you misrepresenting what I said once more. You can read and respond to the post and scripture content that is in disagreement with you or not. That is up to you.

"Dishonest" means more than being mistaken. It means lying. Nuff said.

 

[3rdAngel]

"Dishonest" means more than being mistaken. It means lying. Nuff said.

So that is a no then. You cannot post me any links of me calling you a liar? Being dishonest was in context to you claiming I was making stuff up when I posted scripture proving that Gods Israel in the new covenant scriptures are now all those who choose by faith to believe and obey what Gods Word says (see post # 1012 linked and your response to this post in post # 1016 linked). Me posting scripture in support to what I have posted is not me making stuff up. It is me posting scripture that supports what I have posted to you. What you posted was not truthful and that was my application to the claims you were making as being dishonest. That said I have changed the linked post to state your post and claim as not being truthful. If that is better.

Take Care

 

[IndigoChild5559]

So that is a no then. You cannot post me any links of me calling you a liar? Being dishonest was in context to you claiming I was making stuff up when I posted scripture proving that Gods Israel in the new covenant scriptures are now all those who choose by faith to believe and obey what Gods Word says (see post # 1012 linked and your response to this post in post # 1016 linked). Me posting scripture in support to what I have posted is not me making stuff up. It is me posting scripture that supports what I have posted to you. What you posted was not truthful and that was my application to the claims you were making as being dishonest. That said I have changed the linked post to state your post and claim as not being truthful. If that is better.

Take Care

Are you saying that you have not twice said tht I am dishonest? Dishonest means lying.

 

[3rdAngel]

Are you saying that you have not twice said tht I am dishonest? Dishonest means lying.

Well yes that is correct. I have not twice said you are being dishonest. I posted it one time because you were not being truthful as shown in the post you were quoting from then explained the context to why I posted it. I then changed it for you because you were upset about it. Lets move on now please and talk more when you have something to add to the OP.

 

[Messianic Israelite]

What I have said, OVER AND OVER, is that Gen 2:2-3 does not include ANY COMMAND to any person, Jew or gentile.

Hi IndigoChild5559. Good evening. It's an unusual view that you've happened to adopt there IndigoChild. Let's read Genesis 2:2-3:

"And the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day Elohim finished his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And Elohim blessed the seventh day, and hallowed it: because that in it he rested from all his work which Elohim had created and made."

Yahweh is a spirit being. Logically, He has no reason to rest because a spirit being does not need rest like us mortal beings do. So why did Yahweh rest on this day? The only conclusion you can draw is that because Yahweh was setting an example for His created beings to follow. Why else do you think this passage is in the Bible? Yahweh blessed not any day, but the seventh day and he hallowed it. Genesis 2:1-3 really introduces us to the basic reality of the origin of the Sabbath.

Yahweh created a day of rest here with the needs of man in mind, not for himself, but because He knew that the human body needed one day of rest out of seven. Adam and Eve, and their descendants, were to imitate Yahweh, starting with resting on the Sabbath Day, which is Friday evening to Saturday evening.

The human race could select any one day out of the week and designate it as a day of rest; however, the Scriptures prohibit this option on the part of man. It is not his pregorative to choose, but to obey the instructions which have been laid down for him. Yahweh sanctified (meaning to set apart for a sacred purpose) this special day as a memorial of creation; therefore he blessed this seventh day. If the day is blessed by the Heavenly Father, then the man who observes it will receive a blessing for keeping it. No other day has been designated as so special by our Heavenly Father. It would be presumptuous of man to place himself on a par with the Most High by legislating a different day which does not have the approval of Yahweh.

I thought 3rdAngel did really well in his explanation which was that the Laws of Yahweh were known before Sinai, though in the Bible we do not have record of the commandments being spoken by Yahweh in Genesis. Noah knew the difference between unclean and clean animals when they went on to the Ark (Genesis 7:2), yet there is no commandment recorded of Yahweh teaching the dietary laws to anyone before Sinai. They are many other instances of this. So you see, the Law was known before Sinai, and all the righteous people in the Bible, including Adam and Eve would have been taught to observe the Sabbath from the beginning of creation. They were righteous people in the Bible before Sinai because Yahweh's Laws were known and kept, passed down from Yahweh to Adam to his descendants. Remember, the definition of righteousness is found in Deuteronomy 6:25 and it means those who keep the commandments.

 

[Messianic Israelite]

Fulfilled. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbaoth and we have entered into complete rest. He is our eternal year of Jubilee.

Hi Kenny. Good evening. Do you have scriptural references? You seem to be passing off the Law by spiritualising everything which is a very inconsiderate way of approaching Yahweh's Word. If we have entered into complete rest, why do people have to work for a living? People still work, therefore there should be a resting day to divide the time of work and time of rest. Yahweh has supplied this in the Sabbath Day. Yahshua my Savior kept the Sabbath Day (Luke 4:16) He was there reading scripture on the Sabbath. If you call Him Master (or you use the term L-rd) of the Sabbath, why don't you keep the Sabbath Day? It's a curiosity that people should brush the Sabbath off so lightly and actually come up with their own days of rest that suits them instead.

Hebrews 4:9 says:

"9 There remains therefore a sabbath rest for the people of Yahweh."

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Hi IndigoChild5559. Good evening. It's an unusual view that you've happened to adopt there IndigoChild. Let's read Genesis 2:2-3:

"And the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day Elohim finished his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And Elohim blessed the seventh day, and hallowed it: because that in it he rested from all his work which Elohim had created and made."

Right. Notice, no command contained in that verse.

MI, I am so done with you. All I am doing is repeating myself. I'm moving on. You can have the last word if you want.

 

[3rdAngel]

Hi IndigoChild5559. Good evening. It's an unusual view that you've happened to adopt there IndigoChild. Let's read Genesis 2:2-3:

"And the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day Elohim finished his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And Elohim blessed the seventh day, and hallowed it: because that in it he rested from all his work which Elohim had created and made."

Yahweh is a spirit being. Logically, He has no reason to rest because a spirit being does not need rest like us mortal beings do. So why did Yahweh rest on this day? The only conclusion you can draw is that because Yahweh was setting an example for His created beings to follow. Why else do you think this passage is in the Bible? Yahweh blessed not any day, but the seventh day and he hallowed it. Genesis 2:1-3 really introduces us to the basic reality of the origin of the Sabbath.

Yahweh created a day of rest here with the needs of man in mind, not for himself, but because He knew that the human body needed one day of rest out of seven. Adam and Eve, and their descendants, were to imitate Yahweh, starting with resting on the Sabbath Day, which is Friday evening to Saturday evening.

The human race could select any one day out of the week and designate it as a day of rest; however, the Scriptures prohibit this option on the part of man. It is not his pregorative to choose, but to obey the instructions which have been laid down for him. Yahweh sanctified (meaning to set apart for a sacred purpose) this special day as a memorial of creation; therefore he blessed this seventh day. If the day is blessed by the Heavenly Father, then the man who observes it will receive a blessing for keeping it. No other day has been designated as so special by our Heavenly Father. It would be presumptuous of man to place himself on a par with the Most High by legislating a different day which does not have the approval of Yahweh.

I thought 3rdAngel did really well in his explanation which was that the Laws of Yahweh were known before Sinai, though in the Bible we do not have record of the commandments being spoken by Yahweh in Genesis. Noah knew the difference between unclean and clean animals when they went on to the Ark (Genesis 7:2), yet there is no commandment recorded of Yahweh teaching the dietary laws to anyone before Sinai. They are many other instances of this. So you see, the Law was known before Sinai, and all the righteous people in the Bible, including Adam and Eve would have been taught to observe the Sabbath from the beginning of creation. They were righteous people in the Bible before Sinai because Yahweh's Laws were known and kept, passed down from Yahweh to Adam to his descendants. Remember, the definition of righteousness is found in Deuteronomy 6:25 and it means those who keep the commandments.

Thank you for this post. Its really refreshing to see people who read Gods Word for themselves rather then those seeking to make excuses for sin and unbelief.

God bless

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Thank you for this post. Its really refreshing to see people who read Gods Word for themselves rather then those seeking to make excuses for sin and unbelief.

God bless

Refreshing? He is literally claiming that something exists in Gen 2:2-3 that is NOT THERE.

 

[paarsurrey]

Your response here...

As we have it today we know that before the written Word of God after Exodus 20 we have the direct spoken word of God (e.g. Genesis 3:1-22; 6:18; 9:9; 9:11-17; 15:8; 17:2-21; 21:32; 31:44 etc etc). In the time of Moses in the Exodus God revealed the 10 commandments to Moses at Mt Siana and the Israelite's by the spoken Word of God and the recorded written words of God see Exodus 20:3-17 and Exodus 32:16.

Take Care.

Kindly quote the most relevant reference, please.

Regards

 

[3rdAngel]

As we have it today we know that before the written Word of God after Exodus 20 we have the direct spoken word of God (e.g. Genesis 2:16-17; 3:1-22; 6:18; 9:9; 9:11-17; 15:8; 17:2-21; 21:32; 31:44 etc etc). In the time of Moses in the Exodus God revealed the 10 commandments to Moses at Mt Siana and the Israelite's by the spoken Word of God and the recorded written words of God see Exodus 20:3-17 and Exodus 32:16.

Your response here..

Kindly quote the most relevant reference, please.

All the scriptures quoted above are relevant. They all show that before the spoken and recorded written Words of God at Mt Sinai, God directly spoke to His people.

Take Care.

 

[3rdAngel]

Refreshing? He is literally claiming that something exists in Gen 2:2-3 that is NOT THERE.

I disagree. I believe what @Messianic Israelite posted was biblical and well constructed and supported by the scriptures. On the other hand what you are arguing to claim that Gods people did not know Gods law pre-Mt Sinai is not biblical we already shown in the scriptures already provided to you that are in disagreement with you.

Look at all the scriptures that disagree with your claims here. According to the scriptures it is written that...

• 1. God made the Sabbath on the seventh day of the creation week for all mankind in Genesis 2:1-3; Mark 2:27
• 2. The purpose of Gods law is to give us the knowledge of good and evil; sin and righteousness in Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172
• 3. God gave Adam and Eve the knowledge of good and evil after the fall and before Mt Sinai as shown see Genesis 3:22
• 4. Before the written Word of God in Exodus 20 there was the direct spoken word in Genesis to Gods people (Genesis 2:16-17; 3:1-22; 6:18; 9:9; 9:11-17; 15:8; 17:2-21; 21:32; 31:44 etc etc).
• 5. Gods people knew Gods laws before Exodus 20 as shown in what God says about Abraham knowing them in Genesis 26:5
• 6. Gods people knew what sin (defined as breaking Gods law) was before Exodus 20 as shown in Genesis 4:7; 18:20; 20:9; 31:36; 39:9; 42:22; 50:17
• 7. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of their sins (Genesis 18:20)
• 8. The world was destroyed because of its it was evil Genesis 6:5
• 9. Gods people were making sin offerings for atonement for sin pre-Mt Sinai see Genesis 4:4; 22:2-13; 26:5

While there is no direct commandment recorded for any of those examples posted above what is clear from reading these scriptures is that Gods people pre-Exodus had Gods laws and were practicing them (Genesis 26:5). They understood what sin was and what was required in sin offerings and atonement for sin. So to make arguments in silence and try and make claims that Gods people before Exodus and Mt Sinai did not know what sin was or did not have Gods moral laws and laws of atonement for sin is simply unbiblical. As already demonstrated in the scriptures you deny and did not respond to. Gods Israel according to the new covenant scriptures are no longer those who are born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham but are now all those who have been born again of the Spirit to walk in Gods Word.

To claim that no one had Gods laws before Mt Sinai is simply a false teaching and places no difference between the wicked and Gods righteous people who believed and obeyed God. Think your argument through. If the wicked did not know what sin was why did God destroy them? If Gods people did not know what sin was and were also sinning why did God not destroy them? Your understanding of the scriptures make no sense. This should be a red flag for you. Receive Gods correction and be blessed dear friend. Ignoring Gods Word does not make it disappear.

Take Care.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I disagree. I believe what @Messianic Israelite posted was biblical and well constructed and supported by the scriptures.

No it was not. Gen 2:2-3 contains no command to anyone to rest on the sabbath. NONE. It simply doesn't exist. It's not even a matter of interpreting the verse differently. There is simply nothing in the verse that supports the claim. LITERALLY.

And btw, when you veer off typic (the topic being Gen 2;2-3) I just delete all your stuff without reading it. I insist on people staying focused.

 

[3rdAngel]

I disagree. I believe what @Messianic Israelite posted was biblical and well constructed and supported by the scriptures. On the other hand what you are arguing to claim that Gods people did not know Gods law pre-Mt Sinai is not biblical we already shown in the scriptures already provided to you that are in disagreement with you.

Look at all the scriptures that disagree with your claims here. According to the scriptures it is written that...

• 1. God made the Sabbath on the seventh day of the creation week for all mankind in Genesis 2:1-3; Mark 2:27
• 2. The purpose of Gods law is to give us the knowledge of good and evil; sin and righteousness in Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172
• 3. God gave Adam and Eve the knowledge of good and evil after the fall and before Mt Sinai as shown see Genesis 3:22
• 4. Before the written Word of God in Exodus 20 there was the direct spoken word in Genesis to Gods people (Genesis 2:16-17; 3:1-22; 6:18; 9:9; 9:11-17; 15:8; 17:2-21; 21:32; 31:44 etc etc).
• 5. Gods people knew Gods laws before Exodus 20 as shown in what God says about Abraham knowing them in Genesis 26:5
• 6. Gods people knew what sin (defined as breaking Gods law) was before Exodus 20 as shown in Genesis 4:7; 18:20; 20:9; 31:36; 39:9; 42:22; 50:17
• 7. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of their sins (Genesis 18:20)
• 8. The world was destroyed because of its it was evil Genesis 6:5
• 9. Gods people were making sin offerings for atonement for sin pre-Mt Sinai see Genesis 4:4; 22:2-13; 26:5

While there is no direct commandment recorded for any of those examples posted above what is clear from reading these scriptures is that Gods people pre-Exodus had Gods laws and were practicing them (Genesis 26:5). They understood what sin was and what was required in sin offerings and atonement for sin. So to make arguments in silence and try and make claims that Gods people before Exodus and Mt Sinai did not know what sin was or did not have Gods moral laws and laws of atonement for sin is simply unbiblical. As already demonstrated in the scriptures you deny and did not respond to. Gods Israel according to the new covenant scriptures are no longer those who are born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham but are now all those who have been born again of the Spirit to walk in Gods Word.

To claim that no one had Gods laws before Mt Sinai is simply a false teaching and places no difference between the wicked and Gods righteous people who believed and obeyed God. Think your argument through. If the wicked did not know what sin was why did God destroy them? If Gods people did not know what sin was and were also sinning why did God not destroy them? Your understanding of the scriptures make no sense. This should be a red flag for you. Receive Gods correction and be blessed dear friend. Ignoring Gods Word does not make it disappear.

Your response here...

No it was not. Gen 2:2-3 contains no command to anyone to rest on the sabbath. NONE. It simply doesn't exist. It's not even a matter of interpreting the verse differently. There is simply nothing in the verse that supports the claim. LITERALLY. And btw, when you veer off typic (the topic being Gen 2;2-3) I just delete all your stuff without reading it. I insist on people staying focused.

Your post is unresponsive to the post you are quoting from. I will leave you to your unbiblical dogma as you have already stated you are not interested in reading what is being posted to you and have clearly chosen instead to closed your eyes and ears in fulfillment of Isaiah 6:9-10, when you could have instead chosen to received Gods correction and been blessed. Ignoring Gods Word dear friend does not make it disappear (see John 12:47-48). It becomes our judge come judgment day according to the scriptures. So we will agree to disagree dear friend as I prefer what the scriptures teach that are in disagreement with you. Perhaps it is you that needs to take your own advice and stay focused.

Take Care.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Your response here...

Your post is unresponsive to the post you are quoting from. I will leave you to your unbiblical dogma as you have already stated you are not interested in reading what is being posted to you and have clearly chosen instead to closed your eyes and ears in fulfillment of Isaiah 6:9-10, when you could have instead chosen to received Gods correction and been blessed. Ignoring Gods Word dear friend does not make it disappear (see John 12:47-48). It becomes our judge come judgment day according to the scriptures. So we will agree to disagree dear friend as I prefer what the scriptures teach that are in disagreement with you. Perhaps it is you that needs to take your own advice and stay focused.

Take Care.

When you are willing to admit that Gen 2:2-3 has no commandment in it for anyone to rest on the sabbath, we can talk again.

 

[3rdAngel]

When you are willing to admit that Gen 2:2-3 has no commandment in it for anyone to rest on the sabbath, we can talk again.

Lets talk more dear friend, when you are willing to admit that the scriptures teach that Gods people had Gods laws (scriptures already provided see post # 1035 linked) and obeyed Gods law pre-Exodus in Genesis despite no scriptures stating when these laws were given accept to Adam and Eve having the knowledge of good and evil in Genesis 3:22. As posted earlier, while there is no direct scripture stating when Gods laws were given to Gods people pre-Exodus what is clear from reading these scriptures is that Gods people pre-Exodus had Gods laws, obeyed Gods laws and were practicing them as stated by God himself in Genesis 26:5. So your argument here is with God dear friend not me, whose words you deny. You are trying to make arguments from silence when the scriptures state Gods people pre-Exodus had already been given Gods laws and were practicing them. Try thinking your argument through and look at all the scriptures that are in disagreement with you. Receive Gods Word and be blessed. As posted earlier ignoring Gods Word does not make them disappear.

 

[Kenny]

Hi Kenny. Good evening. Do you have scriptural references? You seem to be passing off the Law by spiritualising everything which is a very inconsiderate way of approaching Yahweh's Word. If we have entered into complete rest, why do people have to work for a living? People still work, therefore there should be a resting day to divide the time of work and time of rest. Yahweh has supplied this in the Sabbath Day. Yahshua my Savior kept the Sabbath Day (Luke 4:16) He was there reading scripture on the Sabbath. If you call Him Master (or you use the term L-rd) of the Sabbath, why don't you keep the Sabbath Day? It's a curiosity that people should brush the Sabbath off so lightly and actually come up with their own days of rest that suits them instead.

Hebrews 4:9 says:

"9 There remains therefore a sabbath rest for the people of Yahweh."

Absolutely... and we understand that the Hebrew verse chapter 4:9 is talking about the time of Joshua and the answer was not to far away: but 10 says:
Hebrews 4:10
For whoever enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from His.

And who is our rest?

14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest) who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin. 16 Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

Also, let us remember that Jesus was closing out the application of the Law for those who enter into the rest when He finished the work during the death, burial and resurrection.

Luke 4:18-20
18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He anointed Me to bring good news to the poor.
He has sent Me to proclaim release to captives,
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set free those who are oppressed,
19 To proclaim the favorable year of the Lord.”

The favorable year of the Lord is referencing the Year of Jubilee - a year of rest where

Lev 25: 10. It shall be a jubilee for you, and each of you shall return to his own property, and each of you shall return to his family. 11 You shall have the fiftieth year as a jubilee; you shall not sow, nor harvest its aftergrowth, nor gather grapes from its untrimmed vines. 12 For it is a jubilee; it shall be holy to you. You shall eat its produce from the field. 13 ‘On this year of jubilee each of you shall return to his own property.

39 ‘Now if a countryman of yours becomes so poor with regard to you that he sells himself to you, you shall not subject him to a slave’s service. 40 He shall be with you as a hired worker, as if he were a foreign resident; he shall serve with you up to the year of jubilee. 41 He shall then leave you, he and his sons with him, and shall go back to his family, so that he may return to the property of his forefathers.

The application :

We return to the state of Adam before he sinned. Our position is restored, our authority is restored, God gives us our daily bread, we are no longer slaves to sin, we go back to the family of God... we have entered into the rest that is not of works but of grace through faith.