WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT IS ABOLISHED?

[jimb]

No, that's nonsense. How in the world can one "know God" when we cannot even have objective means to even know if there's a god? or is it gods? How could one know either way?

Simply because YOU don't know God doesn't mean that He can't be known. I and others know God today, as have many people throughout history.

 

[metis]

Simply because YOU don't know God doesn't mean that He can't be known. I and others know God today, as have many people throughout history.

OK, give us objective proof there's a god? or maybe it's "gods"?

Such beliefs are based on "faith" typically taught by others. However, that doesn't mean nor imply those beliefs are false.

 

[jimb]

Hey jimb so you keep the Sabbath according to Exodus 20:8-11?

If I do it is entirely by chance. I am not under the first covenant. I am under grace not law and have entered into perpetual rest in Christ.

 

[jimb]

OK, give us objective proof there's a god? or maybe it's "gods"?

Such beliefs are based on "faith" typically taught by others. However, that doesn't mean nor imply those beliefs are false.

"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see." Hebrews 11:1

Notice it says "being sure". I believe the Bible and have personal experience that verifies what it says. Therefore, my faith does NOT depend on what is taught by others.

 

[3rdAngel]

No, I don't. I am a Christian, so the Old Covenant doesn't apply to me.

Obeying Gods law from the inside out is Gods new covenant promise to those who through faith have been born in the Spirit to walk in Gods Word (see Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27 and Hebrews 8:10-12). So all of Gods 10 commandments apply to all new covenant Christians including Gods Sabbath and everyone of Gods 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant as the standard of good and right doing when obeyed and sin and evil when disobeyed. (see Matthew 5:17-28; 1 John 3:4; James 2:8-10; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7 Romans 6:1-23; 1 John 2:3-4 and 1 John 3:4-10. According to John sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4) while James says that if we break anyone of Gods 10 commandments we have become transgressors of the law. There fore breaking the Sabbath just like lying and stealing or committing murder is sin in Gods eyes. (see James 2:10-11; comp. 1 John 3:4. Everyone of Gods 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant as the standard of Christian living.

 

[3rdAngel]

Did Abraham ever observe the Sabbath?

Where does it say Abraham did not keep Gods law? Genesis 26:5 5, Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. Before the written word was the spoken words of God.

 

[3rdAngel]

But if you live by the Spirit (God) instead of the letter (man) of the law you'd understand, IMO, that the 4th commandment, as all others, are for the benefit of man.

God doesn't need these laws. He set them down to make life easier for man.

In that respect, the 4th commandment can be honored on any day of the week, because the Spirit of the law is to take a full and complete day of REST and of contemplation. It is a gift to set aside toils and responsibility and renew the inner being.

Jesus reminded us, that doesn't mean to ignore all. So we use our God-given common sense and keep EMS, FD, PD, etc. available 24/7, and "should" assure these essential persons, and everyone else, have one day, any day, where they "answer to no man." This should also apply to rabbi's and clergy. They need that day for "true-self" also.

That, IMO, is "keeping the Sabbath" -- keeping the soul at peace...renewing the spirit.

They are not separate the Spirit of God works through the letter of God (the scriptures) see John 6:63 63, It is the spirit that quickens; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. No one receives Gods Spirit if they do not believe and obey what Gods Word says. There is no scripture in all the bible that teaches that Gods Sabbath commandment from the 10 commandments is any day of the week. According to the commandment the seventh day is the Sabbath. Exodus 20:10 But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD... the rest of the commandment tells us not to do any work. Jesus helps us to practice common sense though in regards to Sabbath keeping in Matthew 12:1-12. God desires mercy and not sacrifice and it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath day.

 

[3rdAngel]

I wrote in #1,530 that Abraham wasn't living under the Old Covenant, which was given by God after the exodus from Egypt, long after Abraham lived.

You cited this part of Genesis: "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Genesis 26:5" This refers to Abrahams's behavior before the written law was given by God, which didn't happen until the exodus from Egypt.

Abraham was following a different covenant between Him as an individual and God but still kept Gods laws just like God established his covenant with Noah before him and then Israel after them. (see Genesis 6:18; Genesis 17:1-2)

 

[3rdAngel]

I make absolutely no claim that my interpretation is God speaking. I make a point, and then (rather than appeal to my own authority) back it up with evidence, such a rational argument, or a study, or example of what I'm saying. No, sir, I am nothing at all like you.

I never made any claims my interpretation is God speaking. That is you pretending I am saying things I have never said again bearing false witness. I will leave that between you and God again.

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel said: Nonsense. You missed the point again. There is a helpful saying that says "To him who has had the experience no explanation is necessary, to him who has not, none is possible.” That is what it is like for someone who knows God and for someone that does not know God. Bigotry is what you are doing by not being open to reason and discussion.

Your response here...

No, that's nonsense. How in the world can one "know God" when we cannot even have objective means to even know if there's a god? or is it gods? How could one know either way?

No its not nonsense. You are missing the point again. God reveals himself to those who seek to know Him (Jeremiah 29:13) and not to those who seek to live their lives in sin and unbelief. Finding God according to the scriptures is conditional to believing and obeying what Gods Word says. However, we can never find God or know Him if we continue in our sins and unbelief. Sin separates us from God so that we cannot find Him or know Him (Isaiah 59:2; John 9:31; Micah 3:4; Psalms 66:18-19; Proverbs 28:9; 1 John 3:22).

 

[3rdAngel]

Christians wanted to distance themselves from the Jews, who in their eyes rejected Jesus.

Constantine, at the Council of Nicaea in A.D. 325, was reported by the historian Eusebius as saying, “It appeared an unworthy thing that in the celebration of this most holy feast [Passover] we should follow the practice of the Jews … . Let us then have nothing in common with the detestable Jewish crowd.”
Thus, since Christians wanted nothing to do with Jews, they wanted to have a different day for rest and worship: Sunday.
Who Changed the Day of Worship From Saturday to Sunday? Why?

Thanks @Nakosis, there is a lot of truth in this. This is how the Antichrist began the change of Gods Sabbath commandment in the Church in fulfillment of the scriptures in Daniel 7:25.

 

[3rdAngel]

The Scribes and the Pharisees observed Gods law but not from a new heart that loves. They outwardly observed Gods 10 commandments but inwardly (from the heart) were sinning against God. So it is possible to legalistically obey Gods law from the outside but inwardly be breaking them and sinning against God and our fellow man (see Matthew 23:26-28 and Matthew 5:17-20) Gods new covenant promise is to give us a new heart that loves so that we can keep His commandments from the inside out. Salvation therefore is from the inside out. This is Gods new covenant promise (see Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 8:10-12). So yes Jesus accused the Jews of being legalistic which they were as proven in the scriptures provided in this post and so we all can be legalistic today if we are not born again into Gods new covenant promise by believing and obeying what Gods Word says.

Your response here and full post quoted above for context.

And how in the world could you possibly know that??? What judgmental bigotry you spewed here as you are making a sham out of your version of Christianity.

I did not post bigotry, that is what you are doing. I posted scripture. I know the above because the scriptures attached say what is posted above. Go read them.

 

[3rdAngel]

If I do it is entirely by chance. I am not under the first covenant. I am under grace not law and have entered into perpetual rest in Christ.

I think I responded to this earlier or something similar Jimb but this post is slightly different so will add some extra thoughts and comments. According to the scriptures no one is under grace if we do not have saving faith because it is written in the scriptures that that "We are saved by Gods grace that we receive through faith" and this faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God (see Ephesian 2:9-9 comp; Romans 10:17) So according to the scriptures if we do not have saving faith that leads us to Gods grace by believing and obeying what Gods Word says we still stand before God guilty of sin and death. Likewise no one is under the law if we have received Gods forgiveness of our sins and have been born again to walk in newness of life because we have been forgiven of our sins and are now free to walk in Gods Spirit. We are only "under the law" if we stand before God guilty of breaking the law *see Romans 3:19. According to the scriptures in the new covenant, the purpose of Gods 10 commandment is to give us the knowledge of good and right doing when obeyed and evil and sin when disobeyed *see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and Psalms 119:172 and according to James in James 2:10-11 if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God under the law of breaking all of them. This includes Gods Sabbath commandment which is one of Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken. Jimb we have been all taught lies at Sunday School. Many do not even know the history of how the Sabbath was changed in the early Church. Jesus, the Apostles and and all the early disciples all kept Gods Sabbath and commandment until the day they died and Jesus expected His people to continue keeping the Sabbath even in the last days before second coming as shown in His very words in Matthew 24:20. Sin defined in the scriptures as breaking Gods law and not believing his Word *1 John 3:4; John 3:36; Romans 14:23 makes us a part of the many that are called and not a part of Gods few that will be His chosen (see Matthew 7:13-23; Matthew 22:14).

Take Care.

 

[jimb]

Obeying Gods law from the inside out is Gods new covenant promise to those who through faith have been born in the Spirit to walk in Gods Word (see Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27 and Hebrews 8:10-12). So all of Gods 10 commandments apply to all new covenant Christians including Gods Sabbath and everyone of Gods 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant as the standard of good and right doing when obeyed and sin and evil when disobeyed. (see Matthew 5:17-28; 1 John 3:4; James 2:8-10; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7 Romans 6:1-23; 1 John 2:3-4 and 1 John 3:4-10. According to John sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4) while James says that if we break anyone of Gods 10 commandments we have become transgressors of the law. There fore breaking the Sabbath just like lying and stealing or committing murder is sin in Gods eyes. (see James 2:10-11; comp. 1 John 3:4. Everyone of Gods 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant as the standard of Christian living.

This is just simply wrong. There are two covenants. The first is dependent on the written law, and was superseded because of Christ's death. Luke 22:20, "In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.
1 Corinthians 11:25, "In the same way, after supper he [Jesus] took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.”

What do you think "new" means? The old covenant has been superseded by the new covenant. Therefore, nobody can be under two covenants. Your statement (repeated twice) that "all of Gods 10 commandments apply to all new covenant Christians" is simply not true, as is your statement that "everyone of Gods 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant".

You can pick verses out of context to justify your claim, but here is what Paul wrote to the Romans (in context): So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." Romans 7:4-6

If you are going to cite what Jesus said, then you must understand a) when He said it and b) to whom it was said. Matthew 5:19 was spoken to the Jews before Jesus was sacrificed, which instituted the New Covenant.

You must read the Bible with understanding and not take a few verses out of context to prove what you write, There are two covenants in the Bible. The first is the OT law, given to Moses; the second is the New Covenant, purchased with the blood of Jesus Christ. Again, the first was superseded by the second!

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I never made any claims my interpretation is God speaking. That is you pretending I am saying things I have never said again bearing false witness. I will leave that between you and God again.

When you say to someone who is disagreeing with your interpretation that their problem is with god and not with you, you are putting what is YOUR INTERPETATION on par with God.

This is getting boring. If the only thing I'm doing is repeating the very obvious example, then its a good sign that it's time to move on. I realize you will continue to have this inflated view of your opinions, and nothing in the world can shake this delusion. Thus, I wish you well, and am going to direct my attention to more worthwhile threads.

 

[Spice]

They are not separate the Spirit of God works through the letter of God (the scriptures) see John 6:63 63, It is the spirit that quickens; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. No one receives Gods Spirit if they do not believe and obey what Gods Word says. There is no scripture in all the bible that teaches that Gods Sabbath commandment from the 10 commandments is any day of the week. According to the commandment the seventh day is the Sabbath. Exodus 20:10 But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD... the rest of the commandment tells us not to do any work. Jesus helps us to practice common sense though in regards to Sabbath keeping in Matthew 12:1-12. God desires mercy and not sacrifice and it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath day.

So do you believe the written canonized books of scripture from the 6th century overrides what God is speaking directly to the hearts of His children, yesterday, today, and tomorrow?

 

[pearl]

I'm not sure why you are bringing up the cereal box thing. It has no relevance to this conversation.

Not to the conversation but to 18 yrs on nursing staff of an Orthodox Jewish health care facility. Those who
delivered the breakfast trays to the rooms on Sabbath must open the cereal boxes for the residents because,
otherwise, they would have too 'tare' open the individual box of cereal.

 

[3rdAngel]

Hey @jimb, my aim is to have a friendly conversation in Gods Word if you are interested as we should not be afraid to come to the light of Gods Word because here is where we find the truth of God guides us with His Spirit which will shine the light on His Words to help us grow closer to God if we have faith. For example if we are mistaken in our views of the scripture I am sure you will agree we would want God to help us have a correct understanding of His Words right especially if what we think is Gods truth is not His truth but is leading us away from His Word into sin and unbelief to a path where we will be numbered with the many that are called but not the few that will be Gods chosen where we can lose our salvation. So sharing Gods Word with Gods Spirit can help edify us to have a closer walk with Jesus. I am sure you are also have that mindset. I hope you can like I do with all your posts address my posted section by section and scripture by scripture because by doing so it not only shows you are reading what I take the time sharing with you but also helps us not to miss the details that can be missed by making blanket responses. Now I am going to challenge you with scripture on some of the things you have stated here so I hope you can think about what is being shared with you in the spirit that is it given. I will start by first adding my post back in for full context to what you are responding to here to see if what you are saying is true or not. I might have to break my full response into two posts to cover everything you have said here but lets look at the details with an opened mind and in good faith.

3rdAngel said: Obeying Gods law from the inside out is Gods new covenant promise to those who through faith have been born in the Spirit to walk in Gods Word (see Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27 and Hebrews 8:10-12). So all of Gods 10 commandments apply to all new covenant Christians including Gods Sabbath and everyone of Gods 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant as the standard of good and right doing when obeyed and sin and evil when disobeyed. (see Matthew 5:17-28; 1 John 3:4; James 2:8-10; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7 Romans 6:1-23; 1 John 2:3-4 and 1 John 3:4-10. According to John sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4) while James says that if we break anyone of Gods 10 commandments we have become transgressors of the law. There fore breaking the Sabbath just like lying and stealing or committing murder is sin in Gods eyes. (see James 2:10-11; comp. 1 John 3:4. Everyone of Gods 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant as the standard of Christian living.

Your response here...

This is just simply wrong.

Be specific please Jimb. You have just made a blanket statement here saying in regards to my post above "this is just simply wrong". Now I want to challenge you in regards to your claim that my previous post "is just wrong". Are you up for a challenge? What exactly in my post above do you claim is "simply just wrong"? Is it the statement that I made that defines what Gods new covenant is, which is obeying Gods law from the inside out by faith that works by love for all those born again of the Spirit of God to believe and obey what Gods Word says and to walk in His Spirit? Scripture evidence is provided defining Gods new covenant promise here from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27 and Hebrews 8:10-12. These scriptures state verbatim what Gods new covenant is word for word. Do you not believe these scriptures? Or do you disagree with the statement that everyone of Gods 10 commandments being repeated in the new covenant as the standard of good and right doing when obeyed and sin and evil when disobeyed? Again scripture evidence was provided to you from Matthew 5:17-28; 1 John 3:4; James 2:8-10; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7 Romans 6:1-23; 1 John 2:3-4 and 1 John 3:4-10. Do you not believe these scriptures? Or did you not believe what James says in James 2:10-11 when he says that if we break anyone of Gods 10 commandments (including the Sabbath which is one of Gods 10 commandments) we have become a transgressor of Gods law and according to John have sinned against God in 1 John 3:4? Lets be specific what do you believe that is posted in the post you are quoting from that is supported by the scriptures that is wrong? Lets dig into the details ok to see what Gods word says? Nothing else matters with God right? *Romans 3:4.

There are two covenants.

There are actually many covenants in the bible. I posted you scripture on this in another post showing that God made covenants with individuals and gave examples with scripture with Noah and Abraham (see Genesis 6:18 and Genesis 17:1-2). God also made covenants with His people who He called Israel as a people in fulfillment of His promise to Abraham what we refer to as the old and new covenant between Gods people Israel shown in the scriptures here in Exodus 24:7-8 (old) and Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27 repeated in Hebrews 8:10-12- new).

The first is dependent on the written law, and was superseded because of Christ's death. Luke 22:20, "In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.1 Corinthians 11:25, "In the same way, after supper he [Jesus] took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.”

According to the scriptures both covenants are dependent on the obeying Gods law (see Hebrews 8:10-12; 1 John 2:3-4. In the new covenant breaking Gods law is the very definition of sin (1 John 3:4). According to the scriptures if any of us continue in known unrepentant sin we will perish in our sins and are in danger of the judgement to come (see Hebrews 10:26-31). Both covenants with Israel were ratified and made legal and binding by blood see Exodus 24:6-8 (old) and Hebrews 9:15-28; Luke 22:20 as the requirement for Gods people. Gods 10 commandments is the standard of sin and evil in both covenanants.

What do you think "new" means? The old covenant has been superseded by the new covenant.

The main difference both of these collective covenants to Gods Israel though is in the laws of atonement. These are Gods shadow laws fulfilled in Christ to who they all pointed to *See Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 8:1-27 and Hebrews 10:1-22. However, all of Gods eternal laws have the same role they always had and are repeated in both covenants as Gods standart of good and righteousness when obeyed and sin and evil and wrong doing when disobeyed (see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4' James 2:10-11 and Pslams 119:172)

Therefore, nobody can be under two covenants.

Agreed. So what is the new covenant? Lets be specific? Here is what God says here in Jeremiah 31:31-34 31, Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32, Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33, But THIS SHALL BE THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAITH THE LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; AND WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE. 34, And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. (see also Ezekiel 36:24-27 and also Hebrews 8:10-12. Notice both covenant have Gods law. We are not to keep Gods law through faith of the operation of God by being born again to walk in Gods Spirit. Gods law is written in our heart to obey God from the inside out as we through faith believe and obey what Gods Word says. We are no longer under the letter of the law but under the Spirit of the law. This leads us to obey Gods law from the inside out.
..

To be continued....

 

[3rdAngel]

Your statement (repeated twice) that "all of Gods 10 commandments apply to all new covenant Christians" is simply not true, as is your statement that "everyone of Gods 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant".

Lets see what the scriptures say. You make the statement that Gods 10 commandments do not apply to new covenant Christians. You were just posted scripture proving that in Gods new covenant Gods law is to be written in the heart through faith that works by love. This is the very definition of Gods new covenant promise. Now think about what you are saying. Are you really going to try and argue now that we can love our fellow man by lying, stealing from them, murdering them or love God by having other gods in our lives, making idols and bowing down to them; using Gods name in vain or breaking Gods Sabbath? Of course not right? According to scripture and the very words of Jesus love is not separate from obedience to Gods law. Love is expressed by obeying what Gods law says. Obedience to Gods law is the fruit of someone that loves God and their neighbour as them selves and is why Jesus says in Matthew 22:36-40 On these two great commandments of love to God and man hang all the law and the prophets. Breaking Gods law according to the scriptures in the new covenant is the very definition of what sin is (see 1 John 3:4 comp James 2:10-11). So you are quite wrong here brother if you believe you can continue living in a life of known unrepentant sin breaking Gods commandments and call yourself a Christian. Those who make those claim are not Christian according to 1 John 2:3-4.

You can pick verses out of context to justify your claim, but here is what Paul wrote to the Romans (in context): So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." Romans 7:4-6

I would challenge you here and be bold enough to say that it is you who is taking scripture out of context to promote teachings of lawlessness which is no where taught in the old and new testament scriptures. As evidence of my claims here if you read the complete context of Romans 6-8 you will see your interpretation of Romans 7 is in contradiction to scriptures from the same book of Romans and the rest of the bible. Romans 7 is talking about the experience of the unconverted man outside of Christ under the law of sin and death. Furthermore, there are more than one law being spoken of here in Romans 7. There is the law of sin and death working in the members, of an uncoverted man not in Christs which is what Romans 7:4-6 and also Romans 7:18-24 is talking about. There is Gods law that is described as Holy, just and good in Romans 7:7 that gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken (sin being breaking Gods law here). Further proof for you that Romans 7:5-6 is talking about the unconverted man outside of Christ is also the Greek. Search it up. Lets look at Romans 7:5-6 for example; [5], For when we were in the FLESH <G4561 same grk word used as CARNAL ; Carnal/FLESH = carnal mind or sinful human nature (not in Christ)>, the passions of sins, which were by the law , did work in our members (sinful mind/flesh) <SIN> to bring forth fruit unto death <ROMANS 6:23, The WAGES OF SIN is DEATH>. [6], But now we are DELIVERED FROM THE LAW (law of sin and death through faith in Christ - married to Christ) BEING DEAD TO THAT WHICH HELD US <SIN - what held us was sin leading us to death - now see the context here of Romans 6:1-23> THAT WE SHOULD SERVE IN NEWNESS OF SPIRIT <NEW COVENANT PROMISE OF THE SPIRIT; Ezekiel 36:26-27; Jeremiah 31:31-33; Hebrews 8:10-12> and not in the oldness of the letter (KNOWLEDGE OF SIN). Happy to so a complete break down of Romans 6; Romans 7 and Romans 8 if you want to discuss this futher. You can't take single scriptures from Romans 7 in isolation to the rest of the bible and make claims Gods 10 commandments are now abolished. That is a teaching of lawlessness unsupported in both the old and new testament scriptures as already proven in our discussion of the scriptures, so far.

If you are going to cite what Jesus said, then you must understand a) when He said it and b) to whom it was said. Matthew 5:19 was spoken to the Jews before Jesus was sacrificed, which instituted the New Covenant.

I have not provided any scripture from Jesus or elsewhere that is not applicable to our discussion. It is Gods Word that we are to live by right. (Matthew 4:4). Now think through your argument here Jimb. Are you really trying to argue that because Jesus says something to the Jews its not relevant to non-Jewish believers? If that is what you are trying to argue then you are trying to argue that the Gospels are only for the Jews and not for all mankind. See where your argument is leading? 2 Timothy 3:16-17 tells us that ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17, That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. While Jesus also tells us in Matthew 4:4 quoting Deuteronomy 8:3 "Man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. What you are claiming here is therefore simply wrong brother.

You must read the Bible with understanding and not take a few verses out of context to prove what you write, There are two covenants in the Bible. The first is the OT law, given to Moses; the second is the New Covenant, purchased with the blood of Jesus Christ. Again, the first was superseded by the second!

You made the claim here that you believe I have posted scripture out of context in your opinion. Prove to me from any one of my posts that I have taken scripture out of its context it is does not mean what I have stated it means. If you cannot all you have provided here is a statement you are unable to prove right? I posted to you above why I believe you interpretation of Romans 7:5-6 is a false interpretation of lawlessness by providing scripture context that was in disagreement with your interpretation of two scriptures pulled out of context to the rest of the chapter and Romans 6 and Romans 7. Now how about you do the same and prove your claims. If you cannot all you are doing is not only wasting your time but also mine.

Take Care.

 

[3rdAngel]

When you say to someone who is disagreeing with your interpretation that their problem is with god and not with you, you are putting what is YOUR INTERPETATION on par with God. This is getting boring. If the only thing I'm doing is repeating the very obvious example, then its a good sign that it's time to move on. I realize you will continue to have this inflated view of your opinions, and nothing in the world can shake this delusion. Thus, I wish you well, and am going to direct my attention to more worthwhile threads.

Once again I never made any claims my interpretation is God speaking. That is you pretending I am saying things I have never said again bearing false witness. I will leave that between you and God again.