Where is the soul?

[Pegg]

You must be tired by now, but we come back right where we started. If breath of God is one and clay is one then how/why are souls different?

I know that Bible states 'God before all and God in all'. How this integrates with the perceptual fact that vehicles are of different kinds?

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i think (hope) i understand your question this time... i think your asking why there are different life forms (cats dogs, horses, cows, plants, people...) is that correct?

why do you think God created different life forms?

 

[crotsch]

Look up the word heart in Greek

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Like God's Spirit, man's spirit is "eternal, immortal, and invisible"

Agree that like wind and breath spirit is invisible.
But is man's spirit everlasting or immortal ?

According to David at Psalm 143v7 his spirit could fail.
If something fails is it still functioning and eternal?

Job [34vs14,15] mentions God gathering man's spirit and his breath.
Surely no one thinks God takes breath to heaven.

If you have Ecclesiastes 12v7 in mind, and have a King James Bible, please notice that ......and the spirit shall return unto God who gave 'it'.
Man's spirit is referred to as 'it' because it is not an inner person.
Just as Romans 8 vs16,26 talks of God's spirit as 'itself'.

There is no mentions of the spirit traveling up or returning up to heaven.

Psalm 104 vs29,30 mentions when breath is taken away death occurs.
When God sends forth his spirit they are created.....

So spirit does not have to go anywhere just like a foreclosed house goes back to the owner does not move anywhere, or relocate anywhere, but is returned into the repossession of the owner's hands even though it is not in his literal hands.

So any future return to life now rests in God's hands until the resurrection.
-Acts 24v15; Daniel 12 vs2,13

 

[atanu]

Agree that like wind and breath spirit is invisible.
But is man's spirit everlasting or immortal ?

-There is no mentions of the spirit traveling up or returning up to heaven.

Such can only happen if spirit was discrete -- one here and another there, that is, if there there were two or more spirits. Air within a balloon mixes indistinguishably with air when the balloon bursts?

I wish to know what scripture says about whether God has a Soul or not?

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[Pegg]

Such can only happen if spirit was discrete -- one here and another there, that is, if there there were two or more spirits. Air within a balloon mixes indistinguishably with air when the balloon bursts?

I wish to know what scripture says about whether God has a Soul or not?

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God does not have a soul because a soul is a 'breather'....its a living breathing fleshly creature - animal or human. You are a soul, I am a soul, my cat is a soul.

Genesis 2:7 “And Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul.”
Adam became a 'soul' when he was brought to life.

God is a 'spirit' because he has no physical body...no soul.

 

[atanu]

Are you sure? Then what about these verses?

Leviticus 26:11 And I set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you.

Leviticus 26:30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Zechariah 11:8 Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul loathed them, and their soul also abhorred me.


Matthew 12:18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

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[atanu]

I surely feel that the soul is distinct from the body-mind-ego, else such songs would not have been written:

O thou my soul, bless God the Lord; ---

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[james2ko]

Are you sure? Then what about these verses?

Leviticus 26:11 And I set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you.

Leviticus 26:30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Zechariah 11:8 Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul loathed them, and their soul also abhorred me.


Matthew 12:18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

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Words in the English language can take on multiple meanings based on the context and the intent of the user, the Greek and Hebrew are no different. Notice the multiple meanings, according to Thayer's Lexicon for the word "soul":

Thayer's Lexicon results for the Hebrew "nephesh":

1) soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
a) that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
b) living being
c) living being (with life in the blood)
d) the man himself, self, person or individual
e) seat of the appetites
f) seat of emotions and passions
g) activity of mind 1) dubious
h) activity of the will 1) dubious
i) activity of the character 1) dubious

Here are the results for "psuche"--soul in the Greek:

1) breath
a) the breath of life
1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing
a) of animals
b) of men
b) life
c) that in which there is life
1) a living being, a living soul
2) the soul a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)

Since these verses are being inspired in the first person singular by a spirit composed personality(God/Jesus), we can conclude the word soul would take on a different meaning other than physical. Definition F for "nephesh" and definition 2 for "psuche" would seem appropriate.

 

[chinu]

Where is the soul?

Somebody said, Just before a sec, i farted, Where is my fart ?



_/\_
Chinu

 

[atanu]

f) seat of emotions and passions
--
2) the soul a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)

I can agree now. Some one already asked about the meaning of Heart (not the physical pump). In Sanskrit, Heart -- the seat of emotions and intellect is called Hridaya.

I am told that people who meditate find it everywhere (and thus nowhere).

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[james2ko]

I surely feel that the soul is distinct from the body-mind-ego, else such songs would not have been written:

O thou my soul, bless God the Lord; ---

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It seems as though you believe the soul is a living spirit with self consciousness. Man does have a spirit which works with his brain to produce his distinctive soul [life/emotions]. But scripture indicates this spirit does not have consciousness apart from the brain. During the course of our lives, our brain and spirit combine to record our experiences, emotions, temperament, personality, and character. Upon death, this spirit along with all of the recorded information will be stored in heaven and be returned to the person at their appointed resurrection.

 

[atanu]

It seems as though you believe the soul is a living spirit with self consciousness. Man does have a spirit which works with his brain to produce his distinctive soul [life/emotions]. But scripture indicates this spirit does not have consciousness apart from the brain. During the course of our lives, our brain and spirit combine to record our experiences, emotions, temperament, personality, and character. Upon death, this spirit along with all of the recorded information will be stored in heaven and be returned to the person at their appointed resurrection.

Hello james

Curious. Can you show me this scripture that teaches about brain? Are you one of those rare spiritualists, who believe that matter precedes spirit?

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[Pegg]

Are you sure? Then what about these verses?

Leviticus 26:11 And I set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you.

Leviticus 26:30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Zechariah 11:8 Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul loathed them, and their soul also abhorred me.


Matthew 12:18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

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You know, the scriptures also speak about Gods 'eye', his 'foot' and his 'hands'
But we know that God does not have such body parts as these. The reason why he sometimes uses these terms if for our benefit to help us see spiritual things in human terms....terms we easily understand

You only have to look at the hebrew word translated 'soul' to realise that God does not have one. The hebrew word ne′phesh is a living body...an animal or human. God is neither.

When he says that his 'soul shall abhor you'... he's tell us that he himself will abhor you... he will abhor with his whole person. It in no way should be taken to mean that God actually has a physical body, nor should it be taken to mean that soul is something other then a nephesh, a physical body.

 

[atanu]

You know, the scriptures also speak about Gods 'eye', his 'foot' and his 'hands'
But we know that God does not have such body parts as these.

Hello Pegg

This assumes that soul is a body part. The spiritual precedes the physical -- that is the basis of spiritual understanding.

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[Pegg]

Hello Pegg

This assumes that soul is a body part.

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we dont have to assume what the soul is... the hebrew word is where we derive the meaning of the biblical soul.

look at this verse

Gen 9: 5 And, besides that, YOUR blood of YOUR souls (nephexsh/psyche) shall I ask back. From the hand of every living creature shall I ask it back; and from the hand of man, from the hand of each one who is his brother, shall I ask back the soul of man

where is the blood found? Its in our veins, in our bones...our blood is inside our 'soul'
Our souls are our living bodies. It is the flesh of us.

How about this one: 1 Pet. 3:20: “In Noah’s days . . . a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water.”
Who were these 'souls'? Was it not Noah and his wife and his sons and their wives? Yes. So the souls that were carried safely were 8 living people/souls.

and just to prove that the 'soul' is actually the physical body, look here:
Joshua 11:11: “They went striking every soul (ne′phesh) that was in it with the edge of the sword.” The soul can be touched and killed by the sword. So again, the true scriptural meaning of 'soul' is the living person. It is you yourself.

 

[atanu]

we dont have to assume what the soul is... the hebrew word is where we derive the meaning of the biblical soul. ----

Yes.

psyche is not the body.

It was already said that it is soul that posseses the mind-body.

Zechariah 11:8 Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul loathed them, and their soul also abhorred me.

Does body loathe. Does body abhor?

But some do believe that the physical body is all that there is.

Spiritualists believe that there is a spiritual basis of the physical.


Leviticus 26:11 And I set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you.

It is unbelievable to me that God has no Soul -- and I know a chrisitian never says "I might have been wrong".

I stop here Pegg.
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[Pegg]

Yes.

psyche is not the body.

It was already said that it is soul that posseses the mind-body.

even in the greek scriptures, psyche is used to mean the living person
1 Cor. 15:45: “It is even so written: ‘The first man Adam became a living soul.’ The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.”

You have to understand that the original meaning of the word has changed. The fact that this NT greek verse agrees with the Hebrew Scriptures that the soul is the body. The greek word used in this verse IS psy‧khe′

Zechariah 11:8 Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul loathed them, and their soul also abhorred me.

Does body loathe. Does body abhor?

But some do believe that the physical body is all that there is.

Spiritualists believe that there is a spiritual basis of the physical.

I stop here Pegg.

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I agree that we have a spiritual side to us...but that does not make us spirits, or with a spirit that is separate from our body. We are Gods physical creations and we will always be his physical creations.


“There is no dichotomy [division] of body and soul in the O[ld] T[estament]. The Israelite saw things concretely, in their totality, and thus he considered men as persons and not as composites. The term nepeš [ne′phesh], though translated by our word soul, never means soul as distinct from the body or the individual person. . . . The term [psy‧khe′] is the N[ew] T[estament] word corresponding with nepeš. It can mean the principle of life, life itself, or the living being.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. XIII, pp. 449, 450.

“The Hebrew term for ‘soul’ (nefesh, that which breathes) was used by Moses . . . , signifying an ‘animated being’ and applicable equally to nonhuman beings. . . . New Testament usage of psychē (‘soul’) was comparable to nefesh.”—The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1976), Macropædia, Vol. 15, p. 152.

“The belief that the soul continues its existence after the dissolution of the body is a matter of philosophical or theological speculation rather than of simple faith, and is accordingly nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture.”—The Jewish Encyclopedia (1910), Vol. VI, p. 564.

 

[Pegg]

It is unbelievable to me that God has no Soul -- and I know a chrisitian never says "I might have been wrong".

I stop here Pegg.
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well im sure you believe God is a spirit... and you know that Spirits have no physical body, so those scriptures cannot mean God has a physical body.

but look, what ever it is we may personally believe - or want to believe- has very little relevance to what God makes known to us. You are free to go on believing how you like or how you think it should be, but if you want to know truth, only God can provide it.

 

[james2ko]

Hello james

Curious. Can you show me this scripture that teaches about brain? Are you one of those rare spiritualists, who believe that matter precedes spirit?

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If the spirit in man had consciousness apart from the brain, this would be akin to having an immortal soul.The immortal soul doctrine had its genesis (pun fully intended) way back in the Garden of Eden when satan told Eve, "you shall not surely die".

It was adopted by the Greeks from the Egyptians (see book of the dead) which was later embraced by the Jews and ultimately by mainstream Christianity. Nowhere in the Old or New Testament will you find this idea of an immortal-conscious spirit living "within" humans.

From a Christian perspective, the concept of an immortal soul does not make sense. If man had an immortal conscious spirit, what need would there be for a resurrection? Why bring back to life something that is already living?

For biblical clues on our human spirit and its relationship to the brain,we can look at the recorded example of the first being resurrected to immortality-- Jesus Christ. Scripture plainly indicates He was able to remember details from His physical life.

Another example is in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. Lazarus was resurrected to eternal life at Christ's return in the first resurrection (Rev 20:6) along with Abraham (Luk 16:22). The rich man died and was resurrected to "mortal" life (evidenced by the rich man feeling the heat of the flames) sometime "after" Christ's 1,000 year reign.

This resurrection will involve a joining of the rich man's human spirit, which was stored in heaven after his first death (Psa 146:4; Ecc 9:5; 12:7), along with a record of all his memories (he remembered his brothers--Luk 16:27-28)

 

[atanu]

From a Christian perspective, the concept of an immortal soul does not make sense. If man had an immortal conscious spirit, what need would there be for a resurrection? Why bring back to life something that is already living?

My question to you was simple.

Curious. Can you show me this scripture that teaches about brain?

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