Which evolved first, consciousness or senses

[FearGod]

You have not explain why and how the soul will act to enables the person to wake up before being suffocated other than because you think so, please explain again.

The brain is working and the senses are working, what makes a person to die while sleeping.
What was missed is the consciousness.

We're talking about whether soul enable the person to wake up before being suffocated, how does the person have senses and not conscious to do with that?

Yes, If the soul was present then the person will act to survive.

 

[Pudding]

The brain is working and the senses are working, what makes a person to die while sleeping.
What was missed is the consciousness.

I cannot understand what you're talkng about, please elaborate the relevancy with that quote of me.

That quote of me:
"You have not explain why and how the soul will act to enables the person to wake up before being suffocated other than because you think so, please explain again."

Yes, If the soul was present then the person will act to survive.

...so all you have is bold empty claims, okay, carry on...

 

[Noitall]

If the soul is present then it'll act to survive? the senses are there but the person not conscious.

So when I had my colonoscopy exam and I was rendered unconscious for a while did my soul leave and go for a short trip. I can believe it ...he probably said damn it's good to get outta there for a while. The guy is such an assh**le!

 

[FearGod]

I think the biggest problem with consciousness is that people seem to think there should be some great philosophical explanation for it, so they sit there and philosophize the sh** out of it and never really get anywhere with it. There is only one logical explanation for consciousness and that explanation is complex interactions. Science already supports this idea and would probably have a solid definition for it already if philosophers and theologians stopped confounding things. I already have my own definition for consciousness because I grew tired of the old ones: The ability to interact in a complex manner with oneself and one's environment. That's it, that's all.

So none of this vague "Conscious - aware and responding to one's environment; awake" type of definition. It's like trying to define something just by using another word that means the exact same thing. So what does "being aware and responding to one's environment; awake" really amount to? It amounts to this...interacting in a complex manner with oneself and one's environment.

And you believe that such complex interactions is the product of nature ( mutations , natural selection and evolution)

 

[atanu]

Doesn't "it could not come back" means it was absent for awhile?

"It is God that takes the souls at death, and those that die not during their sleep. He keeps that (soul) for which He hath ordained death and dismisseth the rest till an appointed term. Verily in this are signs for those who reflect." --39:42

Absence of mental awareness is not useless at all. Just the contrary. The soul is in the lap of God, so to say. Eventually, it means that there are no individual souls with their own awareness.

I cannot say any more.

 

[FearGod]

So when I had my colonoscopy exam and I was rendered unconscious for a while did my soul leave and go for a short trip. I can believe it ...he probably said damn it's good to get outta there for a while. The guy is such an assh**le!

In your case, the soul was present but the senses were dead.

 

[Runewolf1973]

And you believe that such complex interactions is the product of nature ( mutations , natural selection and evolution)

I don't believe it to be so, it is a fact.

 

[Noitall]

The brain is working and the senses are working, what makes a person to die while sleeping.
What was missed is the consciousness.
Yes, If the soul was present then the person will act to survive.

Damn... I gotta get a soul. Then I can get rid of my smoke/CO2 detector alarm.

 

[Noitall]

In your case, the soul was present but the senses were dead.

I sense you may be right.

 

[Runewolf1973]

So when I had my colonoscopy exam and I was rendered unconscious for a while did my soul leave and go for a short trip. I can believe it ...he probably said damn it's good to get outta there for a while. The guy is such an assh**le!

I would say that some, but not all of the interactive functions in the body temporarily ceased. The same with sleep. "Dead" is when nearly all of the interactions cease and the more complex interactions (consciousness/life) are no longer sustainable within the body.

 

[FearGod]

Damn... I gotta get a soul. Then I can get rid of my smoke/CO2 detector alarm.

If the detector malfunctioned then yes your soul will act to survive and that doesn't mean that the soul will always success to survive.

 

[jeager106]

Having seen a LOT of dead people I can cay with certainty that a dead person begins
to ROT pretty quickly. ( YUK! )
Gee, I've even watched a guy blow his head off with a shotgun.
Nasty.
No wonder I'm nuts.
We found a dead guy in an apartment in winter right next to a steam radiator.
He'd swollen to the point that his body was standing up.
I won't go into detail as it STILL makes me sick to this day!
P.T.S.D. anyone?
I'm better now, better now, better now.......................................

 

[FearGod]

Having seen a LOT of dead people I can cay with certainty that a dead person begins
to ROT pretty quickly. ( YUK! )
Gee, I've even watched a guy blow his head off with a shotgun.
Nasty.
No wonder I'm nuts.
We found a dead guy in an apartment in winter right next to a steam radiator.
He'd swollen to the point that his body was standing up.
I won't go into detail as it STILL makes me sick to this day!
P.T.S.D. anyone?
I'm better now, better now, better now.......................................

The product of complex interactions.

 

[Runewolf1973]

The product of complex interactions.

Yes, that is definitely a form of interacting with one's environment...not necessarily in a good way though.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Oddy enough, I do believe in such things as ghosts or "spirits of the deceased". My idea behind this is that everything generates it's own energetic field...electromagnetic field. I believe that this field is capable of retaining a sort of "memory" similar to how they say that energy can store information. I believe that even after our body functions cease, there is still a type of associated memory or information which stays bound to that energetic field and it might still be able to interact in some limited way. Therefore I believe that ghosts are a different form of interaction. I do not believe there is anything "supernatural" about it. It is all natural.

 

[idav]

These are imaginations and thoughts based upon consciousness.

Have you ever considered the fact that without an unchanging substratum of consciousness, the changes in forms-names-designs will not be known? Have you even opened up your mind to the possibility that consciousness may be like gold, using which millions of ornaments can be made? Have you examined the possibility of consciousness being like all pervading sunlight illuminating all forms. Have you considered that consciousness may be a level deeper beyond mind, where thoughts come up and go?

yes

Have you ever opened your mind to the possibility that like a bangle as a design is distinct from gold, the mind may be distinct from consciousness. To this consciousness we go to every night, dissolving our mental shapes.

yes

The very idea that consciousness was created at a point in time is an unexamined idea. The idea that the created materials-shapes have their own separate consciousness is another un-examined assumption.

no its been examined and I am not throwing assumptions.

If our consciousness and knowledge faculty were born of some process then that process controls everything about us and we cannot claim any objectivity.

...

Only in a deterministic universe, which it is not IMO.

 

[FearGod]

Oddy enough, I do believe in such things as ghosts or "spirits of the deceased". My idea behind this is that everything generates it's own energetic field...electromagnetic field. I believe that this field is capable of retaining a sort of "memory" similar to how they say that energy can store information. I believe that even after our body functions cease, there is still a type of associated memory or information which stays bound to that energetic field and it might still be able to interact in some limited way. Therefore I believe that ghosts are a different form of interaction. I do not believe there is anything "supernatural" about it. It is all natural.

Do you think the singularity was a product of nature before the existence of nature itself?

 

[Runewolf1973]

Do you think the singularity was a product of nature before the existence of nature itself?

I believe it was a natural occurrence and that nature has always existed in one form or another.

 

[FearGod]

I besense it was a natural occurrence and that nature has always existed in one form or another.

Why eternal nature but not eternal God?
Why one makes sense to you and not the other?

 

[Sapiens]

Since the question assumes evolution the answer is simple: the senses, they have selective advantage without consciousness.