Muffled
Jesus in me
He is the real one no matter where He is.
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Which Jesus is the right one?
- Thread starter oldbadger
- Start date
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Evil people will live forever but they will not have eternal life.
All souls will continue to exist in the spiritual world after the body dies but not all souls will have eternal life (everlasting life).
Eternal life refers to a “quality” of life, nearness to God which, according to Jesus, comes from believing in Him.
“The immortality of the spirit is mentioned in the Holy Books; it is the fundamental basis of the divine religions. Now punishments and rewards are said to be of two kinds: first, the rewards and punishments of this life; second, those of the other world. But the paradise and hell of existence are found in all the worlds of God, whether in this world or in the spiritual heavenly worlds. Gaining these rewards is the gaining of eternal life. That is why Christ said, “Act in such a way that you may find eternal life, and that you may be born of water and the spirit, so that you may enter into the Kingdom.” 2”
The souls of people who are distant from God will not have eternal life; although their soul will continue to exist in the spiritual world after their physical body dies they will be “as dead” compared to those souls who are close to God.
Nimos
Well-Known Member
I might recall wrong!!
But I don't get the impression that riches play a huge part in the bible, besides a few passages where it is mentioned, but it isn't a dominating thing in it or seen as something bad or anything. Rather it seems irrelevant or something that can't be compared to the riches in heaven and doing God's bidding.
But again, might remember wrong, but nothing pops into my mind thinking that it is looked down upon or that anyone gets punished for being rich or anything.
I think this one is a bit messy and most of all seems like the story might have changed a bit. And that the swords as such probably have little importance.
If you take Matthew.
Matthew 26:51-56
51 - And behold, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword and struck the servant of the high priest and cut off his ear.
52 - Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword.
53 - Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels?
54 - But how then should the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must be so?”
55 - At that hour Jesus said to the crowds, “Have you come out as against a robber, with swords and clubs to capture me? Day after day I sat in the temple teaching, and you did not seize me.
56 - But all this has taken place that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled.” Then all the disciples left him and fled.
To me, this might be Jesus showing that he does not want bloodshed to be done in his name. Jesus has God's army behind him if he wants it. At least here, it seems Jesus knows exactly what is going on and that this is how things have to play out.
In Mark the story seems to have been condensed a bit:
Mark 14:47-49
47 - But one of those who stood by drew his sword and struck the servant of the high priest and cut off his ear.
48 - And Jesus said to them, “Have you come out as against a robber, with swords and clubs to capture me?
49 - Day after day I was with you in the temple teaching, and you did not seize me. But let the Scriptures be fulfilled.”
But still, maintain that Jesus knows what is going on.
Luke (I think is the only one that focuses on that they need to get swords)
Luk 22:37 For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors.’ For what is written about me has its fulfillment.”
Luk 22:38 And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And he said to them, “It is enough.”
But again, in relation to the fulfilment of the scriptures, they never really mention this again, from what I can see.
Luke 22:49-53
49 - And when those who were around him saw what would follow, they said, “Lord, shall we strike with the sword?”
50 - And one of them struck the servant of the high priest and cut off his right ear.
51 - But Jesus said, “No more of this!” And he touched his ear and healed him.
52 - Then Jesus said to the chief priests and officers of the temple and elders, who had come out against him, “Have you come out as against a robber, with swords and clubs?
53 - When I was with you day after day in the temple, you did not lay hands on me. But this is your hour, and the power of darkness.”
And here the story changes a bit again, and also Jesus heals the guy. Yet there is no mention of fulfilling the scriptures here, so maybe the writer of Luke thought it better to mention it elsewhere. But the overall idea still seems to follow that.
In John, there is yet another version:
John 18:4-11
4 - Then Jesus, knowing all that would happen to him, came forward and said to them, “Whom do you seek?”
5 - They answered him, “Jesus of Nazareth.” Jesus said to them, “I am he.” Judas, who betrayed him, was standing with them.
6 - When Jesus said to them, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground.
7 - So he asked them again, “Whom do you seek?” And they said, “Jesus of Nazareth.”
8 - Jesus answered, “I told you that I am he. So, if you seek me, let these men go.”
9 - This was to fulfill the word that he had spoken: “Of those whom you gave me I have lost not one.”
10 - Then Simon Peter, having a sword, drew it and struck the high priest's servant and cut off his right ear. (The servant's name was Malchus.)
11 - So Jesus said to Peter, “Put your sword into its sheath; shall I not drink the cup that the Father has given me?”
But equal for all of them, I don't think any of them is to be understood as if Jesus is talking about aggression of raising swords to fight other people. Jesus doesn't really care about "international" politics if that is what those Christians seem to believe Jesus meant by it. His opponents in the NW are the Pharisees who exploit and don't follow the law.
At least I don't think the NT support these people's position (if that is what they mean), God in the OT, is much more concerned about that.
So besides Jesus saying some things that seem contradictive to what God of the OT does, he stand very firm regarding following the law of God, in my opinion. This to me at least, seems to be what Jesus's message/mission is about. Bring people back to God and not follow false teachings or those that seem to exploit their position of power using God as cover.
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oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
The one that offered violence and trouble, or the one that offered peace?
The one that was man or the Lord or the God?
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
But one Jesus tells that riches cannot lead to your heaven......several times.
But many wealthy Christians can show that Jesus approves of usury, wealth etc.
You didn't read those constant warnings about riches and wealth?
Luke a Matthew copied from Mark, so Mark's condensed account is probably the original more accurate one.
But many Christians think Jesus supported fighting and esr, you know.
Do you agree that the accounts can err in places?
No.....the enemies of Jesus were the Temple Priesthood, the Levite controllers of all.
Most Christians I know insist that Jesus did away with all the Mosaic laws, just keeping a few chosen ones.
Nimos
Well-Known Member
It is true that this is mentioned. I don't think it is that direct, like "Rich people can't go to heaven!!", but rather that it is difficult. Obviously it is guessing, because as I said, it is not my impression that the wealth of people is particularly in focus in the bible.
My best guess. Especially since there are lots of rich people in the bible who are favoured by God, in fact, Job is considered extremely rich and is even richer in the end, yet God is very happy with him. Which wouldn't make sense if God didn't like rich people.
So the way I see it, this is probably Jesus's way of telling the poor (Which I assumed there would have been many of), that just because you are rich doesn't mean that God cares or believes that they are better in the eyes of God, or that God can somehow be bought.
I could imagine that if you lived at that time and you were told that there is this God, that values you just as much as the rich person next door, and that to him you are just as worthy of going to heaven, that it would be very appealing to the poor person. Also, it would maybe make the rich people think, that God would look better on them if they helped those in need now that they had the fortune of being rich.
I think it is Jesus being clever or what to say, he knows that he can't refuse the rich and he shouldn't, but also he can't make poor people lose hope.
Whether that is true or not, I have no clue, but that seems the most logical to me at least, given that the Bible doesn't talk badly about rich people.
Again, as I said, it is mentioned, but I don't think it is all that important, because you have others who are very rich, which isn't condemned for being so.
Obviously, if you have a lot of wealth, especially back then, you would probably have more power than a rich person today in comparison, because our law system is probably more humane and less corrupt. But you could probably misuse your power much easier back then and get away with it than you could today (maybe
). So I think it is more of a warning to rich people that they can't get away with everything, God is watching them as well. You have to remember that they didn't have a legal system like we do today.I agree, I very much get the impression that some of them copied and added a bit here and there. There are some fun examples that can be shown, which clearly are made up.
John 18:33-37
33 - So Pilate entered his headquarters again and called Jesus and said to him, “Are you the King of the Jews?”
34 - Jesus answered, “Do you say this of your own accord, or did others say it to you about me?”
35 - Pilate answered, “Am I a Jew? Your own nation and the chief priests have delivered you over to me. What have you done?”
36 - Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”
37 - Then Pilate said to him, “So you are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world—to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice.”
Obviously, the writer would have no clue what Jesus was saying. And it's kind of funny that in John Jesus is talking like crazy. But if we compare that with Matthew:
Matthew 27:11-14
11 - Now Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor asked him, “Are you the King of the Jews?” Jesus said, “You have said so.”
12 - But when he was accused by the chief priests and elders, he gave no answer.
13 - Then Pilate said to him, “Do you not hear how many things they testify against you?”
14 - But he gave him no answer, not even to a single charge, so that the governor was greatly amazed.
Here you get the impression that Jesus is not talking.
Well, I wouldn't be surprised, there are lots of beliefs within Christianity. I don't know what ESR is?
Yes, I believe they make a lot of errors and I also think they intentionally wrote the stories to make them more exciting. I think they had a purpose. If Jesus only did boring things, it would have been difficult to get people excited about it, which I don't see as an issue, obviously if we knew with 100% certainty that they didn't then we would know what actually happened which would be great. But surely they added stuff etc. The question obviously is, whether the base story is true or not.
Unless I misunderstand you, the Pharisees and the scribes were part of the temple.
If you read (Won't link it all, you can look it up, but basically this is Jesus having a go at them):
Matthew 23:25-36
25 - “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
26 - You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.
27 - “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness.
28 - So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
29 - “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous,
30 - saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’
31 - Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets.
32 - Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers.
33 - You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?
34 - Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town,
35 - so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar.
36 - Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
Matthew 5:17-20
17 - “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
18 - For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
19 - Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 - For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Clearly, Jesus isn't happy about them.
Well, I would disagree. The verse I just linked I think Jesus makes it very clear that this is not the case.
17 - “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
18 - For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
19 - Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
The main argument, if I recall correctly is from the last part of John, where they say that Jesus "fulfills" the law. Which I don't agree with. But again, if you want to go further into this, I will spend time on it, but I can't remember exactly where it is, or if it is even in John, but I simply remember that I found the argument extremely weak.
I think Jesus saying "until heaven and earth pass away" is pretty self-evidence that the law shouldn't be changed, according to Jesus. My own somewhat weak theory is, that this relates to Revelation. Because that is the only place as far as I know that a new Earth is ever mentioned in the Bible.
Revelation 21:1-8
1 - Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
2 - And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 - And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.
4 - He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”
5 - And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”
6 - And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment.
7 - The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son.
8 - But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
But I have no clue if this is supported by anything (actual biblical scholars), that is just my thoughts.
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oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Do you think that Jesus's analogy about threading a camel through a needle was indirect?
He was so angry about so many being very poor whilst the minority were so rich.
Christians often refer to the old testament to aid their intentions, yes?
A huge % of the population was unreasonably poor, yet the Priesthood was unreasonably rich and corrupted. Jesus was outraged by that.
True........ Most of G-John was devoted to supporting the new Church dogma.
That was meant to be 'war', but my mobile can have a mind if it's own.!!
Fair enough.
David Young
Member
If you are prepared to accept that some parts of the Gospels are untrue, be they exaggerations or completely fictional accounts, then you may have an easier task deducing which Jesus was the real one.
The Jesus of history probably did say words to the effect of "Repent because the Kingdom of Heaven is approaching!".
The Jesus of history probably did not have the conversation with Nicodemus that is presented in the Fourth Gospel.
The Jesus of history probably did say words to the effect of "Repent because the Kingdom of Heaven is approaching!".
The Jesus of history probably did not have the conversation with Nicodemus that is presented in the Fourth Gospel.
Nimos
Well-Known Member
I can only echo what I said. I don't think the issue is particular with people being rich. If anything, I think he is upset about greed, which can be a result of being rich or wanting to be rich.
The verse about the camel and needle, I don't think changed anything, the message is the same.
Jesus tells people very directly how you get into heaven and it has nothing to do with wealth:
Matthew 7:21-23
21 - “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 - On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
23 - And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
It doesn't matter how rich you are, or how many things you believe you do in his name, it is of no important to him. You follow the law of God and that is how you get into heaven.
I am not 100% sure what you mean, I get the impression that most Christians would prefer the OT to kind of vanish
Not particularly because of their riches, the temple was the most powerful and rich "institute" at the time, or at least up there. And as I quoted to you about Jesus being angry with the Pharisees and scribes, it is aimed at them not practising what they want others to.
This is also from Matthew:
Matthew 6:19-24
19 - “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal,
20 - but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal.
21 - For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
22 - “The eye is the lamp of the body. So, if your eye is healthy, your whole body will be full of light,
23 - but if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!
24 - “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.
The problem is not being rich, but that it can lead to things that are sinful according to Jesus. If you are rich and you follow the law, there isn't an issue as long as you are not blinded by your riches. It would be very easy for Jesus to just say, "If you have a lot of money you are a pig and I hate you, so you will not go to heaven!!"
He never says anything like that, as far as I know. The Bible is pretty long and a lot is being said
But I never got the impression that Jesus was against or fighting rich people, just for being rich.Ah ok, in that case
I don't know where they got the impression that Jesus was in support of war or which verses they drew this from. I never got the impression that Jesus was interested in war with anyone. The obvious ones would have been the Romans, but they are basically never mentioned except when he is arrested. And even then the Romans are actually shown as being rather diplomatic and not interfering with the Jew's issues. The only problem they would have had is whether Jesus claimed to be king or not because obviously they wouldn't accept that.
And I think that is also shown when he is talking with Pilate:
Matthew 27:11-14
11 - Now Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor asked him, “Are you the King of the Jews?” Jesus said, “You have said so.”
12 - But when he was accused by the chief priests and elders, he gave no answer.
13 - Then Pilate said to him, “Do you not hear how many things they testify against you?”
14 - But he gave him no answer, not even to a single charge, so that the governor was greatly amazed.
Mark 15:1-5
1 - And as soon as it was morning, the chief priests held a consultation with the elders and scribes and the whole council. And they bound Jesus and led him away and delivered him over to Pilate.
2 - And Pilate asked him, “Are you the King of the Jews?” And he answered him, “You have said so.”
3 - And the chief priests accused him of many things.
4 - And Pilate again asked him, “Have you no answer to make? See how many charges they bring against you.”
Mark 15:8-15
8 - And the crowd came up and began to ask Pilate to do as he usually did for them.
9 - And he answered them, saying, “Do you want me to release for you the King of the Jews?”
10 - For he perceived that it was out of envy that the chief priests had delivered him up.
11 - But the chief priests stirred up the crowd to have him release for them Barabbas instead.
12 - And Pilate again said to them, “Then what shall I do with the man you call the King of the Jews?”
13 - And they cried out again, “Crucify him.”
14 - And Pilate said to them, “Why? What evil has he done?” But they shouted all the more, “Crucify him.”
15 - So Pilate, wishing to satisfy the crowd, released for them Barabbas, and having scourged Jesus, he delivered him to be crucified.
So even Pilate is able to see what is going on, yet he doesn't want to fiddle with Jewish issues or what to say. His task is to maintain order.
Im not sure, who these Christians believe Jesus wanted to go to war against? Again from my understanding, Jesus's problem is with Pharisees and scribes (Temple). But I don't even recall him ever encouraging anyone to kill them or "wage war" against them.
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Peace to all,
17 - “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
True, The Old Testament, becoming in to the New Living Sacrifice in the fulfillment of eternal Love, His Passion
14 Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says: "You will indeed hear but never understand,and you will indeed see but never perceive."
15 For this people 's heart has grown dull,and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.’
In logic, to me, The Abrahamic Faiths have the common denominator as being spirit based, and through God we become united as one in being through His Spirit and with all mankind. Today's new living sacrifice tears down and removes the chasm of death and Satan and closed the chasm of the Bosom of Abraham, returning those awaiting, the souls of the faithfully departed and the martyrs and Saints and angels all awaiting for the coming of the New Heaven and Earth, Heaven fulfilled for all mankind in His image. The New Living Sacrifice becomes as immortal and incorruptible transforming from as created mortal and corrupt to becoming again, glorified and transfigured. The transfiguration is in the creation and fulfillment of the One Tent, when asked by Peter, shall I make 3 tents? Jesus says, Moses, the Old Covenant Laws, in communion sacrifice of the innocent animal sacrifice, identification of re confirmation of the person to God from sin offering by the penitent for the absolution for him and his family in the Temple, are fulfilled and Elijah and all the prophets, now fulfilled by the new living sacrifice. In logic, now the Host and through faith is the fulfilled New Body and transforms as immortal ind incorruptible through Baptism into the Church of The Body of Christ. And all in the Body of Our Shared Spirit in Christ, Jesus is the "First" Christ, the New Adam, our fulfilled brother as we, all brothers and sisters from the cross for all to follow into Heaven. We share in His divinity as one in being. In the transfiguration Peter, James and John witnessed, both Moses and Elijah disappeared in a cloud and Jesus says, Make one Tent. They were told not to talk about the Transfiguration until after His Resurrection. And the information is all in their Gospels today. To me in logic, and beyond, is The New Temple, The Body of God as united in being, together with the Father and the Son, Glorified in the transfiguration of the Christ, through the Holy Spirit being manifesting through the flesh for all souls in the Body of God for all mankind as the fulfilled faith and morality in the intelligence and image of the Creator, God, The Father through the Power of The Divine Will that never fails.
Moses wrote the Pentateuch and the Pharaoh's daughter found Moses in an Ark on the side of a river bank. Then the Pharaoh's daughter finds his mother as a wet nurse at a local village and she takes them both home to the Pharaoh’s Castle and Moses is educated in Egyptian royalty. Moses who lead the Exodus was found by the Pharaoh’s daughter’s motherly instincts through the voice of a crying baby delivered in an Ark.
We know to keep the doors open to the Church of God for all mankind.
Peace always,
Stephen Andrew
17 - “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
True, The Old Testament, becoming in to the New Living Sacrifice in the fulfillment of eternal Love, His Passion
14 Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says: "You will indeed hear but never understand,and you will indeed see but never perceive."
15 For this people 's heart has grown dull,and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.’
In logic, to me, The Abrahamic Faiths have the common denominator as being spirit based, and through God we become united as one in being through His Spirit and with all mankind. Today's new living sacrifice tears down and removes the chasm of death and Satan and closed the chasm of the Bosom of Abraham, returning those awaiting, the souls of the faithfully departed and the martyrs and Saints and angels all awaiting for the coming of the New Heaven and Earth, Heaven fulfilled for all mankind in His image. The New Living Sacrifice becomes as immortal and incorruptible transforming from as created mortal and corrupt to becoming again, glorified and transfigured. The transfiguration is in the creation and fulfillment of the One Tent, when asked by Peter, shall I make 3 tents? Jesus says, Moses, the Old Covenant Laws, in communion sacrifice of the innocent animal sacrifice, identification of re confirmation of the person to God from sin offering by the penitent for the absolution for him and his family in the Temple, are fulfilled and Elijah and all the prophets, now fulfilled by the new living sacrifice. In logic, now the Host and through faith is the fulfilled New Body and transforms as immortal ind incorruptible through Baptism into the Church of The Body of Christ. And all in the Body of Our Shared Spirit in Christ, Jesus is the "First" Christ, the New Adam, our fulfilled brother as we, all brothers and sisters from the cross for all to follow into Heaven. We share in His divinity as one in being. In the transfiguration Peter, James and John witnessed, both Moses and Elijah disappeared in a cloud and Jesus says, Make one Tent. They were told not to talk about the Transfiguration until after His Resurrection. And the information is all in their Gospels today. To me in logic, and beyond, is The New Temple, The Body of God as united in being, together with the Father and the Son, Glorified in the transfiguration of the Christ, through the Holy Spirit being manifesting through the flesh for all souls in the Body of God for all mankind as the fulfilled faith and morality in the intelligence and image of the Creator, God, The Father through the Power of The Divine Will that never fails.
Moses wrote the Pentateuch and the Pharaoh's daughter found Moses in an Ark on the side of a river bank. Then the Pharaoh's daughter finds his mother as a wet nurse at a local village and she takes them both home to the Pharaoh’s Castle and Moses is educated in Egyptian royalty. Moses who lead the Exodus was found by the Pharaoh’s daughter’s motherly instincts through the voice of a crying baby delivered in an Ark.
We know to keep the doors open to the Church of God for all mankind.
Peace always,
Stephen Andrew
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Nimos
Well-Known Member
Sorry did not understand any of that
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
How very true.... I could not have said it any better!
He is one and the same. It is the love of money that Jesus had a problem with. Not profits and rewards because God is not only the God of the rich but also the God of the poor.
I thought you said “Jesus” - not Christians. Christians are not Jesus - but we are in a process of change… some more that others
Are you talking about the same Jesus who made a whip?
One and the same. Context… it is all in the context.
One and the same. Who said you can’t do both?
Both.
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
Except for the Pauline epistles and the gospel of John.
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
Life's like that. Different responses for different situations.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
In which case you could say that your God is the God of murderers and racists.
Jesus turned away the rich man who couldn't give away his money, true?
I did indeed!I thought you said “Jesus” - not Christians. Christians are not Jesus - but we are in a process of change… some more that others
Of course, and some Christians will point to verses like that to justify aggression, violence and more.