Which Jesus is the right one?

[Kenny]

Sin? I've been talking about your God's laws and what happened if they were ignored.

that is what I said within the context of the Mosaic Law that you quoted.

Why you insist on using this strange word 'sin' is strange to me. For instance, yours and our courts don't use the word.

I’m not sure why it is “strange”. We use the word all the time… are you saying you are perfect? If you can admit you aren’t, then you “missed the mark” or, another word… sinned.

God allowed any people to adopt his laws, all that time ago. He said so.

I’m not sure how your statement addresses what I said. That being said, we all have free will and can adopt the Mosaic Law, the NT law of love, Hindu laws, Islamic laws or your own laws. God allows us to make those decision.

No. Think about it, a few words added at the end of a sentence changed it's meaning completely, 'until all is fulfilled'.

Two different subjects. He fulfilled the law and there are other things that are yet to be fullfilled.

So Christians can still quote the laws as suits their righteous feelings whilst ignoring hundreds of others.

???

We have two laws… love God and love your neighbor. Are you confusing the two covenants?

Who fought your Civil war and many others?

Are you saying that if something is wrong (like sex-slavery) - we should close our eyes and pretend that isn’t happening? Is that love? Your position is quite confusing to me. Can you help me here?

In which case your Jesus undergoes some extreme character changes.
I think there are at least two of them.

Yes… we both can look at the same evidence and come to two completely different understandings. I find that His character doesn’t change.

Well, Jesus was probably explaining how a united front against the outrageous corruption of the fat Levite class would balance things out. 90% + of all the province's were living on the bread line.

Why did you change the subject? Levites isn’t even mentioned in this historical encounter. Was that an error?

I don't know where Brevard Co is but if it's in the USA then there's a lot of violence there....no?

Yes… quite a bit. Then there are also a lot of non-Christians too. Or wolves in Christian clothing for that matter. Was there a point?

Many Christians have fought for various reasons, and to be able to quote the aggressive Jesus has no doubt helped.

Yes… Jesus can be aggressive. Remember the whip? Do you just close your eyes when evil is present?

No.....but one Jesus was promoting violence and I've quoted a few verses to show that.

Yes, there are times when righteous anger can be expressed. Again… do you just close your eyes when you see wrong?

Me take my sword? !!!
Sacrifice my baby? !!!

Isn’t what you are promoting? did I misunderstand when you said, “Jesus didn’t address that”?

You see? What Christianity wants so it will find the suitable Jesus to present. And what it cannot find then dogma can fill in for it.

I’m not sure how you got to point “Z”… but judging by your previous answers, I think only you know how you did that.

 

[Ebionite]

OK.... So Paul just wrote letters about 'church' etc, and I agree with you that accounts about Jesus are inconsistent. Now I'm thinking that this might be because there are accounts about two different Jesus's rather than inconsistent accounts about one.

There was a man who was another "Jesus", but he was only associated with the crucifixion.

Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.
Matthew 26:31

Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man [that is] my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
Zechariah 13:7

The "man" is a geber (warrior), which leads to Judas via the word sicarri as previously discussed.

OK.... Fair enough. I've always thought that G-John was/is supporting church tradition, dogma and beliefs. But there are anecdotes within this book that I think are genuine.

Church tradition follows Roman tradition from the Roman Catholic Church, which was politically aligned with the Pharisees via the Herodian (Edomite) dynasty.

There are anecdotes which are unique to that gospel and meaningful within the prophetic context, but there are also accounts which are inconsistent with the synoptic gospels. These differences are useful for identifying doctrinal bias.

No.....crimes should be confronted and sentenced but I don't think that process is 'evil' if undertaken humanely.
I write 'sentenced' rather than 'punished' because many sentences (UK) hope to rehabilitate.

In Hebrew justice and righteousness are synonymous, UK judicial process and humanism isn't relevant to that. Psalm 35 describes the justice of the righteous servant:

([A Psalm] of David.) Plead [my cause], O LORD, with them that strive with me: fight against them that fight against me.
Take hold of shield and buckler, and stand up for mine help.
Draw out also the spear, and stop [the way] against them that persecute me: say unto my soul, I [am] thy salvation.
Let them be confounded and put to shame that seek after my soul: let them be turned back and brought to confusion that devise my hurt.
Let them be as chaff before the wind: and let the angel of the LORD chase [them].
Psalms 35:1-5

 

[oldbadger]

that is what I said..

I’m not sure why it is “strange”. We use the word all the time… are you saying you are perfect? If you can admit you aren’t, then you “missed the mark” or, another word… sinned.

That word again.......'sin'.
Christians seem to use it in religious context but never in everyday life, newspapers, business, trade or accounting.

It's strange, Kenny.

I’m not sure how your statement addresses what I said. That being said, we all have free will and can adopt the Mosaic Law, the NT law of love, Hindu laws, Islamic laws or your own laws. God allows us to make those decision.

Really? If you say so.

Two different subjects. He fulfilled the law and there are other things that are yet to be fullfilled.

If your version of Jesus fulfilled the law, what laws are left to you?
But your local and national laws still use many those quoted in Mosaic law.
Are you perfect and above those laws? I ask because previously you have asked me if I'm perfect, maybe this will help you to see how strange that question is.

???

We have two laws… love God and love your neighbor. Are you confusing the two covenants?

No..........There are more Christian rules/laws than in Mosaic law!
And loving neighbours is a dodgy one.....I'm thinking of how many Christians are against helping other nations in struggles.....but that's not you, I accept that.

Are you saying that if something is wrong (like sex-slavery) - we should close our eyes and pretend that isn’t happening? Is that love? Your position is quite confusing to me. Can you help me here?

Christians enjoyed slavery for yonks. Secular laws have mostly tried to control these crimes.
Oh....and like your Christians I have needed to reserve action in the face of crime, but that's a whole different thread.

Yes… we both can look at the same evidence and come to two completely different understandings. I find that His character doesn’t change.

Now you're talking!
Christianity can push some actions/words forward to support it's wishes, and Christianity can change the situation right round as required.
Two different Jesus's.
But I acknowledge that you only see love in what Jesus said and did.....fair enough.

Why did you change the subject? Levites isn’t even mentioned in this historical encounter. Was that an error?

And exactly what bloodline do you think that the controlling Jews of Palestine were part of?
Not the Herods, but all the Temple Priesthood, guards, authorities etc.
Look in to that.

Yes… quite a bit. Then there are also a lot of non-Christians too. Or wolves in Christian clothing for that matter. Was there a point?

So you say, but maybe some could point the same accusations at such as you?
I'm just talking here about how Jesus can be presented in so many ways.

Yes… Jesus can be aggressive. Remember the whip? Do you just close your eyes when evil is present?

Evil? People who run trade scams for profit are breaking laws.....your papers ....your courts don't tend to use the word evil.

Yes, there are times when righteous anger can be expressed. Again… do you just close your eyes when you see wrong?

So Jesus was violent at times ......
At last!

Isn’t what you are promoting? did I misunderstand when you said, “Jesus didn’t address that”?

I promote nothing.
I asked a question.

I’m not sure how you got to point “Z”… but judging by your previous answers, I think only you know how you did that.

The accounts about Jesus seem to describe two different people.
Some Christians seem to chip and change as suits their needs.
Another form of cherry picking.

 

[Kathryn]

You didn't understand. I'm asking people to decide which Jesus in those gospels is the real one.
If all the descriptions apply then I rather think he would have been a person of split character.

So which do you choose? The caring loving gentle man who rejected riches, or the threatening warlike one who rewarded capital investment?

Or should I guess?

You can guess if you like but I choose the one that is sort of a smart arse.

 

[oldbadger]

There was a man who was another "Jesus", but he was only associated with the crucifixion.

I think that same man may have popped in and out of the gospel accounts.

The "man" is a geber (warrior), which leads to Judas via the word sicarri as previously discussed.

Ah.....I rather think that Judas may previously have been a publican or involved in taxation.
I reckon that his last could have been that of an assassin, hence they called him Judas sicarii and that would became Iscariot over time.

Church tradition follows Roman tradition from the Roman Catholic Church, which was politically aligned with the Pharisees via the Herodian (Edomite) dynasty.

The Pharisees were a teaching or guidance group. That's it.

There are anecdotes which are unique to that gospel and meaningful within the prophetic context, but there are also accounts which are inconsistent with the synoptic gospels. These differences are useful for identifying doctrinal bias.

I'm thinking of the anecdotes that are meaningful within an historical context.

In Hebrew justice and righteousness are synonymous, UK judicial process and humanism isn't relevant to that. Psalm 35 describes the justice of the righteous servant:

The foundations of UK common law are 'partly' from Mosaic law.

 

[oldbadger]

You can guess if you like but I choose the one that is sort of a smart arse.

Ha ha! The one who got taken down and clear away, possibly to Cornwall with the merchant priest Joseph or possibly to Kashmir??
Now he was smart!

 

[Kathryn]

Ha ha! The one who got taken down and clear away, possibly to Cornwall with the merchant priest Joseph or possibly to Kashmir??
Now he was smart!

Sorry, don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Kenny]

That word again.......'sin'.
Christians seem to use it in religious context but never in everyday life, newspapers, business, trade or accounting.

It's strange, Kenny.

This seems to be a moving target. Who says it isn’t used in everyday life?

Really? If you say so.

I can then assume that you agree that you aren’t perfect and do miss the mark - (sin) ?

If your version of Jesus fulfilled the law, what laws are left to you?

Love God and love my neighbor.

But your local and national laws still use many those quoted in Mosaic law.

I don’t think I am into “thought and speech control”.

Are you perfect and above those laws? I ask because previously you have asked me if I'm perfect, maybe this will help you to see how strange that question is.

Oh… I know that I am not perfect! Not sure why you think it strange.

No..........There are more Christian rules/laws than in Mosaic law!

Really? Do you have a list from a site?

And loving neighbours is a dodgy one.....I'm thinking of how many Christians are against helping other nations in struggles.....but that's not you, I accept that.

You might be mistaken. Do you have a statistical site that breaks it down?

Christians enjoyed slavery for yonks. Secular laws have mostly tried to control these crimes.

Hmmm… I think it was Christians that stopped slavery… Am I mistaken? Secular laws? Which ones?

Oh....and like your Christians I have needed to reserve action in the face of crime, but that's a whole different thread.

Can you expand?

Now you're talking!
Christianity can push some actions/words forward to support it's wishes, and Christianity can change the situation right round as required.
Two different Jesus's.
But I acknowledge that you only see love in what Jesus said and did.....fair enough.

I think you seem to dodge my points. It’s the same Jesus… remember the whip? (I keep bringing this up but no answer). Is there such a thing as “righteous anger?” Same Jesus… just depends on what the situation is. Or do you simply close your eyes when wrong is done?

And exactly what bloodline do you think that the controlling Jews of Palestine were part of?
Not the Herods, but all the Temple Priesthood, guards, authorities etc.
Look in to that.

Hmmm…. the subject was about riches. Is this a moving goal post?

So you say, but maybe some could point the same accusations at such as you?
I'm just talking here about how Jesus can be presented in so many ways.

But it is still the same Jesus. Is there more than one Badger? A spouse? A parent? One who loves? One who can get angry for wrongdoing? Or is it just one Badger that is multifaceted.

Evil? People who run trade scams for profit are breaking laws.....your papers ....your courts don't tend to use the word evil.

I’m not into speech control. But, as the saying goes, if it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck… it is still a duck no matter what you don’t call it or call it.

So Jesus was violent at times ......
At last!

Oh… yes! But still the same Jesus. (I believe I have mentioned that multiple times… maybe it is the first time you actually digested what I said).

Did you read the book of Revelation?

I promote nothing.
I asked a question.

I though you were promoting two Jesus. Maybe I read wrong.

The accounts about Jesus seem to describe two different people.

But it is still one and the same.

Some Christians seem to chip and change as suits their needs.

I’m sure you can find some that do. People are people. Even deists from England can chip and change as it suits their needs. (Granted, probably not you but just saying)

Another form of cherry picking.

Cherries are delicious.

 

[Ebionite]

I think that same man may have popped in and out of the gospel accounts.

The twin is reflected in the symbolism of the star of Bethlehem, which goes back to Jacob. Jacob and Esau were twins, and Jacob's two wives were twins.

Ah.....I rather think that Judas may previously have been a publican or involved in taxation.

Taxation was originally a form of tribute. The tribute of the thirty pieces of silver is part of the prophetic context.

And I said unto them, If ye think good, give [me] my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty [pieces] of silver.
And YHWH said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty [pieces] of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of YHWH.
Zechariah 11:12-13

The Pharisees were a teaching or guidance group. That's it.

No, politically they were accommodating towards Rome. Romans 13 is just one example of Paul endorsing Roman rule.

I'm thinking of the anecdotes that are meaningful within an historical context.

For example?

The foundations of UK common law are 'partly' from Mosaic law.

Sure, from King Alfred the Great. The problem is the union of church and state, where Moses gets written out of state authority by a redefinition of 'God'. Exodus 19-20 names Moses as a member of Elohim, but he's obviously not a member of the Trinity.

 

[oldbadger]

Sorry, don't know what you're talking about.

Oh....sorry. both Cornish (and Kashmir) people think that Jesus went to stay with them.
There's a very strong Cornish tradition about that and even a hymn written about it that is/was so popular that many folks wanted it to be our national anthem.....true!

 

[oldbadger]

Who says it isn’t used in everyday life?

I do, Kenny.
The word 'sin' is a mumbo-jumbo word that is not used other than in a religious way.
Buy a national newspaper and go looking for it!

I can then assume that you agree that you aren’t perfect and do miss the mark - (sin) ?

There you go, trying to squeeze your 'sin' to everyday speech!

Love God and love my neighbor.
I don’t think I am into “thought and speech control”.

Your thinking strangely, imo.
There are thousands of laws that you will agree with, I'm guessing.

A law requiring a pedestrian crossing for safety is not speech control.... Now go looking for all the others, Kenny!

Hmmm…. the subject was about riches.

If you think that Jesus supported great wealth amongst unreasonable poverty then you have not read about him.

But one Jesus didn't seem to mind. Jesus the capitalist. Ask me to show you about that.

I’m not into speech control. But, as the saying goes, if it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck… it is still a duck no matter what you don’t call it or call it

So read through the gospels and you'll see that there are different Jesus's.

Oh… yes! But still the same Jesus. (I believe I have mentioned that multiple times…

And I've told you many times about different Jesus's.
You're in denial, I think.

You've probably got a dreamed up version of Jesus that would totally fail to recognise the Jesus that I have identified from the gospels.
That's just how it is, Kenny.

That's given me good idea for a new thread or two so I'm glad that we had this conversation.

Even deists from England can chip and change as it suits their needs. (Granted, probably not you but just saying)

Interesting........... Look at how you wrote that. So you call me a 'deist'. What would you think if I write that you are a 'christian'?

 

[oldbadger]

The twin is reflected in the symbolism of the star of Bethlehem, which goes back to Jacob. Jacob and Esau were twins, and Jacob's two wives were twins.

So that's how Bethlehem got snugged in to 'Matthew' maybe?
You might take much more notice of the Bethlehem account if your main gospel is Matthew...... Is that it?

Taxation was originally a form of tribute. The tribute of the thirty pieces of silver is part of the prophetic context.

Tribute was a form of taxation.
Maybe Judas did sell Jesus out, but whether it was for thirty silver coins I couldn't say.

And I said unto them, If ye think good, give [me] my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty [pieces] of silver.
And YHWH said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty [pieces] of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of YHWH.
Zechariah 11:12-13

Ah! I am wary about any introduction of past occurrences in to the gospels. I see fulfilled prophecy as coincidence.

No, politically they were accommodating towards Rome. Romans 13 is just one example of Paul endorsing Roman rule.

Wrong era. What the Pharisee Paul endorsed has nothing to do with what Jesus wanted ....years before.
I don't take any notice of Paul's letters because (apart from last meal, execution, resurrection) they don't tell me anything about Jesus, his words and actions.

For example?

You mentioned the prophetic which I don't take much notice of, I take notice of the historical Jesus and the gospels are the main source of historical Jesus, obviously.

Sure, from King Alfred the Great. The problem is the union of church and state, where Moses gets written out of state authority by a redefinition of 'God'. Exodus 19-20 names Moses as a member of Elohim, but he's obviously not a member of the Trinity.

Moses the Israelites leader would never have recognised a trinity. The trinity is church dogma that was built up after Jesus' time.

 

[Ebionite]

So that's how Bethlehem got snugged in to 'Matthew' maybe?
You might take much more notice of the Bethlehem account if your main gospel is Matthew...... Is that it?

Also from Luke:
For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
And this [shall be] a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us.
Luke 2:11-15

Bethlehem = house of bread (bet lechem), and a manger can hold grains like wheat, which obviously is used to produce bread.

I see fulfilled prophecy as coincidence.

The star of Bethlehem was primarily a sign (Molnar's solution).

Wrong era. What the Pharisee Paul endorsed has nothing to do with what Jesus wanted ....years before.

No, the political issue of Roman influence was central to the false accusations that led to the crucifixion.

I don't take any notice of Paul's letters because (apart from last meal, execution, resurrection) they don't tell me anything about Jesus, his words and actions.

Paul's suffering has meaning within the context of Jesus' words in Acts 9:

But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
Acts 9:15-16

I take notice of the historical Jesus and the gospels are the main source of historical Jesus, obviously.

What anecdotes do you think are meaningful, specifically?

Moses the Israelites leader would never have recognised a trinity. The trinity is church dogma that was built up after Jesus' time.

Yes, the point is that the English state has religious prejudice against Mosaic law and by extension against common law.

 

[Kenny]

I do, Kenny.
The word 'sin' is a mumbo-jumbo word that is not used other than in a religious way.
Buy a national newspaper and go looking for it!

You need to expand your reading materials and your vocabulary:

Ten Deadly Sins of CEOs and Business Owners

[Editor's Note: Being the CEO or business owner can be a lonely job. It is important to get good feedback so that you can keep a balanced perspective.

www.linkedin.com

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14759551.2019.1621311

(Deadly sins and corporate acquisitions)

I know you don’t like the word… is it because it is too direct?

There you go, trying to squeeze your 'sin' to everyday speech!

Just look above. Me thinks thou dost protest too much.

Your thinking strangely, imo.
There are thousands of laws that you will agree with, I'm guessing.

I noticed you didn’t give me a site. Is it because there is none?

A law requiring a pedestrian crossing for safety is not speech control.... Now go looking for all the others, Kenny!

Really? Is this the totality of what you were trying to say?

If you think that Jesus supported great wealth amongst unreasonable poverty then you have not read about him.

You really did read into what I said and added what I never said. Didn’t he ask the rich man to give to the poor? Can you reread your quote and the rest of the story that I quoted?

God is the God of the rich because He is the God of the poor. We are suppose to help the poor. You can’t do that if you are poor already.

But one Jesus didn't seem to mind. Jesus the capitalist. Ask me to show you about that.

As I said, it is all in context. You can’t put Jesus into just one box that fits your narrative. He is multifaceted.

So read through the gospels and you'll see that there are different Jesus's.

No… it is the same Jesus (even as I gave the analogy about you). You can use me if you want to. I am loving yet can be stern. I am full of grace yet can draw a line that you shouldn’t cross. I am both father, husband, friend and grandfather and each one has a different aspect of who I am.

You haven’t really proved me wrong.

And I've told you many times about different Jesus's.
You're in denial, I think.

LOL… no, you are dogmatic.

You've probably got a dreamed up version of Jesus that would totally fail to recognise the Jesus that I have identified from the gospels.
That's just how it is, Kenny.

Only in your imagination. I would tend to support eye-witnesses rather than your viewpoint of someone who doesn’t even know him.

That's given me good idea for a new thread or two so I'm glad that we had this conversation.

It has been interesting

Interesting........... Look at how you wrote that. So you call me a 'deist'. What would you think if I write that you are a 'christian'?

No… you called yourself a deist. (I looked you up on “about”) - I’m just saying that no one has a corner on the market that you mentioned. It isn’t a dig on your belief system

 

[oldbadger]

Also from Luke:

The star of Bethlehem was primarily a sign (Molnar's solution).

Yes. I don't take notice of the Bethlehem story.
And trying to pretend that Galileans were required to take part in a Judean census is just spin.

No, the political issue of Roman influence was central to the false accusations that led to the crucifixion.

Nope. Pilate is reported to have washed his hands over the demands of the people. In fact Pilate might even have arranged to get Jesus down and away.
I'm not even sure that Jesus died that day. After all, his mates all saw him again not that long after, and I don't believe the resurrection for a moment. G-Mark didn't even write about such a thing.

Paul's suffering has meaning within the context of Jesus' words in Acts 9:

But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
Acts 9:15-16

Paul's and other Christian 'spins' are nothing to do with the real Jesus, I'm thinking.

What anecdotes do you think are meaningful, specifically?

The whole story in Mark, less the Christian add-ons.
Lots in Matthew and Luke, and a very few in John. I think that G-John used these as truth pills. To tell a true story that is often heard or known before telling spin can cause readers to accept both..... truth pills.

Yes, the point is that the English state has religious prejudice against Mosaic law and by extension against common law.

No it doesn't. It uses Mosaic law quite a lot.
Example: before work can be carried out on roofs suitable fencing has to be erected to protect people from falling off.
I do love that one.

 

[oldbadger]

You need to expand your reading materials and your vocabulary

Ten Deadly Sins of CEOs and Business Owners

[Editor's Note: Being the CEO or business owner can be a lonely job. It is important to get good feedback so that you can keep a balanced perspective.

www.linkedin.com

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14759551.2019.1621311

(Deadly sins and corporate acquisitions)

I ask you to select a national newspaper and all you can draw from is a cultural platform .
Their logo is an ancient oil lamp.

I know you don’t like the word… is it because it is too direct?

The word 'sin', is only used in theological and some rhetorical communications.
You probably don't use it in your general language, and I definitely don't hear it.
It's a religious 'spin' word.

Really? Is this the totality of what you were trying to say?

Ha ha! A simple law which isn't big enough for you?
Try deception with loaded weights, now that's an abomination in Mosaic law.

You really did read into what I said and added what I never said. Didn’t he ask the rich man to give to the poor? Can you reread your quote and the rest of the story that I quoted?

God is the God of the rich because He is the God of the poor. We are suppose to help the poor. You can’t do that if you are poor already.

A typical wealthy Christian point of view right there.
I wonder if you support a national health service for all? Free medicine for the poor?

As I said, it is all in context. You can’t put Jesus into just one box that fits your narrative. He is multifaceted.

That's exactly what Christianity does do!

No… it is the same Jesus (even as I gave the analogy about you). You can use me if you want to. I am loving yet can be stern. I am full of grace yet can draw a line that you shouldn’t cross. I am both father, husband, friend and grandfather and each one has a different aspect of who I am.

You haven’t really proved me wrong.

And what do you do if the line is crossed?
What would you do if you found a villain in your house one night?

LOL… no, you are dogmatic.

Only in your imagination. I would tend to support eye-witnesses rather than your viewpoint of someone who doesn’t even know him.

Oh no......so you've got a list of eye witnesses.
I've only got one partial witness in the gospels myself.

No… you called yourself a deist. (I looked you up on “about”) - I’m just saying that no one has a corner on the market that you mentioned. It isn’t a dig on your belief system

Kenny, just a tip..... It might show better if you give some acknowledgement to the chosen beliefs of any others. Regardless of what they have written, why don't you at least give their beliefs a capital?
Why not?

 

[oldbadger]

@Kenny
You asked me if I have a list of Christian laws. I've just remembered that.
I'll send you that list later in a PM.
It's very long and the message might have trouble in which case I'll send it in sections.
There are about 1050 or 1500, I can't remember which.

 

[Kenny]

I ask you to select a national newspaper and all you can draw from is a cultural platform .
Their logo is an ancient oil lamp.

The word 'sin', is only used in theological and some rhetorical communications.
You probably don't use it in your general language, and I definitely don't hear it.
It's a religious 'spin' word.

I know you are trying to narrow the scope to hopefully eliminate the word in regular usage but here goes

Sin Tax: How it Works, Types, Examples and Arguments - News Week Me

Delve into the world of sin tax with our comprehensive guide. Learn how it works, different types of it and real-life examples.

newsweekme.com

Opinion | The Sins of the Educated Class

Progressive elites aren’t helping the people they say they’re fighting for, and they’re hurting the rest of us.

www.nytimes.com

The 'deadly sins' of business

Chief executives and business experts explain the classic traps for business leaders.

www.bbc.com

Like I said, you need to expand your circle of reading material.

Ha ha! A simple law which isn't big enough for you?
Try deception with loaded weights, now that's an abomination in Mosaic law.

It is… it is also a violation of love. If you just put “love” as the law - you don’t need 15,000+ and more every time something goes wrong. I know you understand love.

A typical wealthy Christian point of view right there.
I wonder if you support a national health service for all? Free medicine for the poor?

Before you change the goal post… you didn’t address my point. The very verse you quoted said “Sell everything you have and give to the poor” and then went on to show how God would bless you if you did. So, are we fine with Jesus not having a problem with rich people who help the poor? Or do you want more evidence.

That's exactly what Christianity does do!

No… that is what you did.

And what do you do if the line is crossed?

Stop it. When a person was carrying out a 50 inch TV without paying for it as I came into Walmart… I grabbed the shopping cart and said, “YOU ARE NOT TAKING THE TV”.

Are you of the viewpoint that i should just give the other cheek and say “take another TV while you are at it”?

What would you do if you found a villain in your house one night?

For the love I have for my wife, I would make sure he didn’t do something evil and call the police. Would you let him hurt your spouse?

Oh no......so you've got a list of eye witnesses.
I've only got one partial witness in the gospels myself.

Maybe you need to study the history thereof.

Kenny, just a tip..... It might show better if you give some acknowledgement to the chosen beliefs of any others. Regardless of what they have written, why don't you at least give their beliefs a capital?

I’m sorry…. are we talking about “other beliefs” or Jesus. Is this another moving target on your part?

Why not?

Why not what? If you say, as a deist, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” - I would give all the kudos to your beliefs.

 

[oldbadger]

I know you are trying to narrow the scope to hopefully eliminate the word in regular usage but here goes

Sin Tax: How it Works, Types, Examples and Arguments - News Week Me

Delve into the world of sin tax with our comprehensive guide. Learn how it works, different types of it and real-life examples.

newsweekme.com

Opinion | The Sins of the Educated Class

Progressive elites aren’t helping the people they say they’re fighting for, and they’re hurting the rest of us.

www.nytimes.com

The 'deadly sins' of business

Chief executives and business experts explain the classic traps for business leaders.

www.bbc.com

Like I said, you need to expand your circle of reading material.

Like that's an official Act.

It is… it is also a violation of love. If you just put “love” as the law - you don’t need 15,000+ and more every time something goes wrong. I know you understand love.

So you have no interest in seeing them?
Paul wrote down many!

Before you change the goal post… you didn’t address my point. The very verse you quoted said “Sell everything you have and give to the poor” and then went on to show how God would bless you if you did. So, are we fine with Jesus not having a problem with rich people who help the poor? Or do you want more evidence.

So you would not answer my question, about supporting a medical service throughout your land.
So much for your talk, eh?

Stop it. When a person was carrying out a 50 inch TV without paying for it as I came into Walmart… I grabbed the shopping cart and said, “YOU ARE NOT TAKING THE TV”.

He was carrying a tv, so you grabbed the cart? !!!!!
You had entered the store before you grabbed his cart and you're trying to tell me that he was stealing?

Oh dear........... so much for your claims.

Are you of the viewpoint that i should just give the other cheek and say “take another TV while you are at it”?

You couldn't have been sure about what he was doing....he hadn't left the store!
I arrested more thieves than you ever thought of.
It doesn't matter what your work was.

For the love I have for my wife, I would make sure he didn’t do something evil and call the police. Would you let him hurt your spouse?

You didn't answer the question!
What would you do?
Exactly?

Why not what? If you say, as a deist, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” - I would give all the kudos to your beliefs.

Every Christian on rf is a Christian to me.
I think you should be a christian from now on.
Fair enough?

 

[oldbadger]

It is… it is also a violation of love. If you just put “love” as the law - you don’t need 15,000+ and more every time something goes wrong. I know you understand love.

Paul, Jesus and others seem to disagree with you.

There are 1050, here is the first group, they are all shown in everday language with book/chaper/verse

Colossians 4:1 "You masters, treat your slaves in a righteous and fair way, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven."
Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. (1 Peter 2:18)

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear (Ephesians 6:5)

Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything (Colossians 3:22)

Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them (Titus 2:9)

Let all who are under a yoke as bondservants[a] regard their own masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be reviled. 2 Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful on the ground that they are brothers; rather they must serve all the better since those who benefit by their good service are believers and beloved. (1 Timothy 6:1-2)

Seven "Abstains" - Abstain from :
Idols (ACTS 15:20)
Fornication (ACTS 15:20,29; 1 THESSALONIANS 4:2-3)
Strangled meats (ACTS 15:20)
Eating blood (ACTS 15:20)
Meats offered to idols (ACTS 15:29)
All appearance of evil (1 THESSALONIANS 5:22)
Fleshly lusts (1 PETER 2:11)
Seven Things to Avoid:
Troublemakers (ROMANS 16:17)
Profane and vain babblings (1 TIMOTHY 6:20)
False science (1 TIMOTHY 6:20)
Unlearned questions (2 TIMOTHY 2:23)
Foolish questions (TITUS 3:9)
Genealogies (TITUS 3:9)
Arguments about the law (TITUS 3:9)
Three "Asks":
Ask and ye shall receive (MATTHEW 7:7)
Ask no return of goods (LUKE 6:30)
Ask life for backsliders (1 JOHN 5:16)
Two Things to Awake to:
Awake to righteousness (1 CORINTHIANS 15:34)
Awake to life (EPHESIANS 5:14)
Seventy-four "Be's":
Be exceeding glad (MATTHEW 5:12)
Be reconciled to a brother (MATTHEW 5:24)
Be perfect (MATTHEW 5:48; 2 CORINTHIANS 13:11)
Be wise as serpents (MATTHEW 10:16)
Be harmless as doves (MATTHEW 10:16)
Be ready for Christ's coming (MATTHEW 24:44; LUKE 12:40)
Be content with your wages (LUKE 3:14)
Be merciful as God (LUKE 6:36)
Be like faithful servants (LUKE 12:36)
Be thankful (COLOSSIANS 3:15)
Be at peace among selves (1 THESSALONIANS 5:13)
Be patient toward all people (1 THESSALONIANS 5:14; 2 TIMOTHY 2:24)
Be no partaker of sin (1 TIMOTHY 5:22)
Be sober and hope (1 PETER 1:13)
Be sober and pray (1 PETER 4:7)
Be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, charity, and patience (aged men, TITUS 2:2)
Be sober, love husbands and children (young women, TITUS 2:4)
Be sober minded (young men, TITUS 2:6)
Be in behaviour as becoming to saints (aged women, TITUS 2:3)
Be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient (young women, TITUS 2:5)
Be ready to give an answer of the hope that is in you (1 PETER 3:15)
Be of good cheer(JOHN 16:33)
Be baptized (ACTS 2:38)
Be converted (ACTS 3:19) Be transformed (ROMANS 12:2)
Be kind of brotherly love one to another (ROMANS 12:10; EPHESIANS 4:32)
Be fervent in spirit (ROMANS 12:11)
Be patient in tribulation (ROMANS 12:12)
Be given to hospitality (ROMANS 12:13)
Be afraid, if lawless (ROMANS 13:4)
Be no idolater (1 CORINTHIANS 10:7)
Be afraid, if lawless (ROMANS 13:4)
Be no idolater (1 CORINTHIANS 10:7)
Be followers of Paul as he followed Christ (1 CORINTHIANS 11:1; PHILIPPIANS 3:17)
Be followers of God (EPHESIANS 5:1)
Be followers of the faithful and patient (HEBREWS 6:12)
Be children in malice (1 CORINTHIANS 14:20)
Be men in understanding (1 CORINTHIANS 14:20)
Be steadfast (1 CORINTHIANS 15:58)
Be unmoveable (1 CORINTHIANS 15:58)
Be always abounding in God's work (1 CORINTHIANS 15:58)
Be strong in the Lord (1 CORINTHIANS 16:13; EPHESIANS 6:10; 2 TIMOTHY 2:1)
Be of good comfort (2 CORINTHIANS 13:11)
Be of one mind (ROMANS 12:16; 2 CORINTHIANS 13:11; PHILIPPIANS 2:2; 1 PETER 3:8)
Be separate from the unclean (2 CORINTHIANS 6:17)
Be renewed in spirit (EPHESIANS 4:23)
Be angry and sin not (EPHESIANS 4:26)
Be tender-hearted one to another (EPHESIANS 4:32)
Be filled with the Spirit (EPHESIANS 5:18)
Be likeminded (PHILIPPIANS 2:2)
Be one of accord (PHILIPPIANS 2:2)
Be anxious for nothing (PHILIPPIANS 4:6)
Be an example to believers in word, conversation, charity, spirit, faith, and purity (1 TIMOTHY 4:12)
Be a partaker of Christian sufferings (2 TIMOTHY 1:8; cp. 1 PETER 4:1) 53.
Be gentle to all people (2 TIMOTHY 2:24)
54. Be apt to teach (2 TIMOTHY 2:24)
55. Be instant in season, out of season (2 TIMOTHY 4:2)
Be careful to maintain good works (TITUS 3:8,14; cp. MATTHEW 5:16)
Be content with what you have (HEBREWS 13:5)
Be doers of the Word (JAMES 1:22) Be afflicted and mourn (JAMES 4:9)
Be patient till Christ comes (JAMES 5:7-8)
Be holy in conversation (behaviour) (1 PETER 1:15-16)
Be pitiful (1 PETER 3:8) Be courteous (1 PETER 3:8)
Be examples of the flock of God, not lord over it (1 PETER 5:3)
Be subject one to another (1 PETER 5:5)
Be clothed with humility (1 PETER 5:5)
Be sober (1 PETER 5:8) Be vigilant (1 PETER 5:8)
Be mindful of prophecies and commandments (2 PETER 3:2)
Be diligent to be found in peace (2 PETER 3:14)
Be diligent to be without spot, and blameless (2 PETER 3:14)
Be faithful to death (REVELATION 2:10)
Be watchful, strengthen self (REVELATION 3:2)
Be zealous and repent (REVELATION 3:19)
Thirty "Be Not's":
Be not like the hypocrites in prayer (MATTHEW 6:5)
Be not like the heathen in prayer (MATTHEW 6:8)
Be not as hypocrites in fasting (MATTHEW 6:16)
Be not called "Rabbi" (MATTHEW 23:8)
Be not called "Master" (MATTHEW 23:9)
Be not afraid of man (LUKE 12:4)
Be not of doubtful mind (LUKE 12:29)
Be not many teachers (JAMES 3:1)
Be not afraid of terror (1 PETER 3:14)
Be not troubled (1 PETER 3:14)
Be not ignorant of time with God (2 PETER 3:8; cp. ISAIAH 57:15)
Be not deceived: 10 classes not to inherit the kingdom (1 CORINTHIANS 6:9-10)
Be not conformed to world (ROMANS 12:2)
Be not slothful in business (ROMANS 12:11)
Be not conceited (ROMANS 12:16)
Be not overcome of evil (ROMANS 12:21)
Be not mere servants of men (1 CORINTHIANS 7:23)
Be not children in understanding (1 CORINTHIANS 14:20)
Be not deceived by evil companions (1 CORINTHIANS 15:33)
Be not unequally yoked together with unbelievers (2 CORINTHIANS 6:14-15)
Be not entangled again with keeping the law (GALATIANS 5:1. See ‘Eighty-five Old and New Covenant Contrasts')
Be not deceived: man will reap what he sows (GALATIANS 6:7-8)
Be not partakers with sinners (EPHESIANS 5:7)
Be not unwise about God's will (EPHESIANS 5:17)
Be not drunk with wine (EPHESIANS 5:18)
Be not weary in well doing (2 THESSALONIANS 3:13)
Be not ashamed of God (2 TIMOTHY 1:8)
Be not slothful (HEBREWS 6:12)
Be not forgetful of strangers (HEBREWS 13:2)
Be not carried about with different strange doctrines (HEBREWS