Which Jesus is the right one?

[oldbadger]

No, it's from Robert Eisenman.

I've googled Eisenman and at first glance he seems to be an historian with a radical approach to historical Jesus.

I do hope he hasn't come to Carrier's conclusions. But anyway, can you give me more info about his opinions?

 

[Kenny]

You did.....and then you couldn't bring yourself to acknowledge the first bunch of that list.
At 50 per post it would take 21 posts to deliver all.... Yes, I think your 'ask' can go unheeded.

Your only laws so far have been:
Post 141:
We have two laws… love God and love your neighbor.

......and you can't have gathered any from the apostles or Jesus, but I'll bet that you would be quoting laws if it suited. That's the thing......I don't believe in you.

I noticed you ignored both my questions and/or requests.

It is becoming a habit.

And you don’t have to believe in me… I’m nobody’s Savior.

 

[oldbadger]

And you don’t have to believe in me… I’m nobody’s Savior.

That's different yet again.
A Christian not interested in evangelism?
If you say so.

 

[oldbadger]

I noticed you ignored both my questions and/or requests.

You bet!
But if any others mention the list I'll take the trouble for them. OK?

 

[Muffled]

The one that offered violence and trouble, or the one that offered peace?
The one that was man or the Lord or the God?

I believe both are one and the same.

 

[Muffled]

Then he has many faces and characters
Truly a name for all thoughts and actions.
??

I believe I don't take my identity from Jesus and He doesn't take His from me. When you see Jesus in me, it is because He is Himself and not because He is me.

 

[Muffled]

In which case you could say that your God is the God of murderers and racists.
Jesus turned away the rich man who couldn't give away his money, true?

I did indeed!

Of course, and some Christians will point to verses like that to justify aggression, violence and more.

I believe the Orantians only see Jesus as a man of peace. I met a Christian who in effect had two Gods. The OT one who was a god of wrath and a NT one that was a god of peace. I see God as one.

 

[oldbadger]

I believe both are one and the same.

Fair enough. That's what you believe.
I think that two different persons were recorded.

What do you think of these verses? This Jesus is quite different from the descriptions that I've heard during most of my life. How can they align with a loving, peaceful family guy?

Matthew. {10:34}
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not
to send peace, but a sword. {10:35} For I am come to set a
man at variance against his father, and the daughter against
her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in
law. {10:36} And a man’s foes [shall be] they of his own
household. {10:37} He that loveth father or mother more
than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or
daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Mark {3:31} There came then his brethren and his mother, and,
standing without, sent unto him, calling him. {3:32} And
the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold,
thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee. {3:33}
And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my
brethren? {3:34} And he looked round about on them which
sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my
brethren!

 

[oldbadger]

I believe I don't take my identity from Jesus and He doesn't take His from me. When you see Jesus in me, it is because He is Himself and not because He is me.

Well, sure. I'm sure that every Christian has they own personality/identity.
Yes.

 

[oldbadger]

I believe the Orantians only see Jesus as a man of peace. I met a Christian who in effect had two Gods. The OT one who was a god of wrath and a NT one that was a god of peace. I see God as one.

I've never heard of Orantians, are there any on RF?
The Old Testament God was particularly kind in as much as he required the Israelites to receive any in to their midst, where they were prepared to undertake initiation or whether they were just visitors. And he had offered the same guidance to tribes that were there before the Israelites but who had not followed it.

God's laws were all about producing a strong, cohesive, safe, secure, healthy, fast growing and very healthy people....but of course they kept failing, because they kept losing interest in those laws. Prophet after prophet lamented that fact, and no doubt God could become quite irate about that!
But Jesus (or one of them) was certainly furious about so many people living on the breadline or below when the Levite folks were living so well.

 

[Ebionite]

I'm sorry Ebionite, I'm old and stupid and can't remember what you are referring to with your post, above.
Can you tell me more because to go back and read through the posts will take ages.

I'll Google Eisenman ....that might set me right.

From my #161, it's about early first century politics in Judea, specifically the internal conflict between Galilean nationalism and the accommodation of Herodian/Roman power by the religious elite especially the Pharisees. Eisenman documents this in his book "James the brother of Jesus".

 

[Ebionite]

But anyway, can you give me more info about his opinions?

Eisenman associates the Jesus of the gospels with one or more militant nationalists called Jesus. IMO he is right about the political context but wrong about the association of Jesus with violent opposition to Roman rule because of the prophetic context in Habakkuk which describes a remedy for imperial violence.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Now which Jesus is the real one!

None, all variants of Jesus were created by other people long after his passing away (assuming that he was a historical).

 

[oldbadger]

From my #161, it's about early first century politics in Judea, specifically the internal conflict between Galilean nationalism and the accommodation of Herodian/Roman power by the religious elite especially the Pharisees. Eisenman documents this in his book "James the brother of Jesus".

The religious elite were Levites all, and as you know many Pharisees were not Levites.
Herod Antipas had total control of the Galilee, and apart from Roman observers there wouldn't have been many Romans there at all.
The huge population of poor classes would not have been much interested in the fact that they were governed by a 'Vichy' style government apart from the fact that the Levite classes (plus Herods) lived fat and well compared to their own poverty.
Jesus was against corrupt government.

 

[oldbadger]

Eisenman associates the Jesus of the gospels with one or more militant nationalists called Jesus.

I think that Jesus was duplicated, sure, but only one of these was a militant man. Nationalist? I don't think such politics interested any of the Jesus's.....or can you show me any quote about Jesus that shows this?

IMO he is right about the political context but wrong about the association of Jesus with violent opposition to Roman rule because of the prophetic context in Habakkuk which describes a remedy for imperial violence.

Sure, Jesus wasn't so much bothered by Roman rule as the local Levite controllers.
I do know that the Herods were not Levites but all the Priesthood, Temple guards, senior tax officials and any other officers would have been.

 

[oldbadger]

None, all variants of Jesus were created by other people long after his passing away (assuming that he was a historical).

I acknowledge your opinion, but I think that the variants were based upon real human characters.
After such a long time it's going to be hard to prove either opinion.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I acknowledge your opinion, but I think that the variants were based upon real human characters.
After such a long time it's going to be hard to prove either opinion.

I too acknowledge your opinion and agree that after such a long time it is going to be hard to prove any of the two opinions.

 

[oldbadger]

I too acknowledge your opinion and agree that after such a long time it is going to be hard to prove any of the two opinions.

True, but it's good for my brainy bits to debate it.....sometimes.

 

[Aupmanyav]

True, but it's good for my brainy bits to debate it.....sometimes.

Don't limit that just to Jesus.

 

[oldbadger]

Don't limit that just to Jesus.

You wanna argue about electric milk floats? Bring it on!