Which one is a Cult? A or B?

[YoursTrue]

Both are cults. A cult is "a particular form or system of worship," from the Latin cultus meaning "care, labor; cultivation, culture; worship, reverence."

May I ask how you're an intervallic time traveler. What does that mean?

 

[Lain]

May I ask how you're an intervallic time traveler. What does that mean?

Time is divided into intervals and I travel through them to the past and the future as a Christian. I am in the past when I go to Mass and am made present to the Crucifixion and the Offering Christ made for all, I am really there and joined to the past, so there I have travelled to the past. I go outside of time and into eternity when I pray the Psalms, for as one introduction to them says:

"In Christ and the Psalms, the past, the present, and the future are so sweetly intermingled that in reading them and their commentaries, we find ourselves lifted up and soaring like an eagle over the terrain of the ages -- not to seek prey, but to behold and hear spiritual beauty swelling up from past ages, rising up through Christ, and stretching forth to eternity.

"When St. Paul said and felt 'For me to live is Christ,' he stepped into another dimension, for Christ is timeless."

One is also in prayer able to pray for past events and past persons changing it, for I do not think time is linear and all Christians recognize that it is not. Therefore in all of these ways and yet more I will discover I travel through the intervals of time.

 

[YoursTrue]

Time is divided into intervals and I travel through them to the past and the future as a Christian. I am in the past when I go to Mass and am made present to the Crucifixion and the Offering Christ made for all, I am really there and joined to the past, so there I have travelled to the past. I go outside of time and into eternity when I pray the Psalms, for as one introduction to them says:

"In Christ and the Psalms, the past, the present, and the future are so sweetly intermingled that in reading them and their commentaries, we find ourselves lifted up and soaring like an eagle over the terrain of the ages -- not to seek prey, but to behold and hear spiritual beauty swelling up from past ages, rising up through Christ, and stretching forth to eternity.

"When St. Paul said and felt 'For me to live is Christ,' he stepped into another dimension, for Christ is timeless."

One is also in prayer able to pray for past events and past persons changing it, for I do not think time is linear and all Christians recognize that it is not. Therefore in all of these ways and yet more I will discover I travel through the intervals of time.

I go by the Bible to learn about particular things relating to God and life. Thanks for explaining a bit about yourself.

 

[pearl]

Many theologians do not view the journey to Bethlehem as being literal, instead a possible drawing of a symbolic affiliation with David. IOW, allegorical. On a literal basis, it simply doesn't make sense, but figuratively it does.

I think every aspect of the 'infancy narratives' are drawn directly from Hebrew Scripture. Matthew's story of the conception and birth of Jesus reenacts the story of Israel's deliverance from Egypt. Joseph, the father of Jesus is deliberately reminiscent of Joseph of Hebrew Scripture as he receives revelation in dreams and goes to Egypt, saving the family. The 'wicked king Herod' is a carbon copy of the wicked Pharaoh who killed the Hebrew male children, only to have God protect the life of the one who would sac his people, 'Moses-Jesus'. In the
story of Moses, the Magus Balaam came from the East and saw the star of the Davidic king rise from Israel (Num 22-24): so too after Jesus' birth magi come from the East, having seen the star of the King of the Jews.
Matthew fortifies these reminiscences from the saga of Moses recounted in Scripture of the Law, and quotations from the Prophets. The fulfillment of the Law and the Prophets may be seen as an introduction to what God will do through Jesus when the Gospel begins with the baptism at the Jordan.

Same with the Infancy Narrative found in Luke. The messenger of revelation is Gabriel, the angel of the endtime who appears in Daniel.
The four canticles in Luke (Magnificat, Benedictus, Gloria in Excelsis, Nunc Dimittis) are a mosaic of recollections found in Hebrew Scripture with almost every line parallel to a verse from the Prophets and the Psalms. Mary's presentation of Jesus in the Temple echoes Hannah's presentation of Samuel at the Shrine in 1 Samuel. The story of Jesus' youth from his circumcision to his rearing at Nazareth a constant refrain is that everything was done according to the Law of the Lord.
excerpts from 'Christ in the Gospels'
Raymond Brown

 

[YoursTrue]

YoursTrue the early church did not have a bible.. It was the Church that decided the truly inspired words of God from the many phony manuscripts kicking around at the time 400 years after the Church was established!
The Church is a living organism, she grows in understanding, now 2000 years old she has a good grasp on truth! Like all living things she is grows in size and intellect!

OK, thinking about your post, it would be obviously clear that the early Christians had the Torah. They quoted from these scriptures in their writings, held on to for centuries by the Jews. Those writings and letters of the followers of Christ added to those accepted by many as the inspired documents prior to Jesus appearance.

 

[metis]

I don't either, but it makes theological sense to me that Mary and Joseph had other children and I couldn't personally agree with an organization that continually teaches that she never had sexual relations with Joseph. I'm very thankful to know (realize, recognize, understand) that after Jesus birth they had normal marital relations. The scriptures indicate that. To me.

Actually, the scriptures don't say anything about Mary's and Joseph's sexual relations, thus I'm not willing to jump to conclusions one way or the other.

 

[Dogknox20]

OK, thinking about your post, it would be obviously clear that the early Christians had the Torah. They quoted from these scriptures in their writings, held on to for centuries by the Jews. Those writings and letters of the followers of Christ added to those accepted by many as the inspired documents prior to Jesus appearance.

YoursTrue thank you for your reply.. There in no Old Testament that mentions Jesus they needed a teacher to find the truth!
I point out.... the early Christians had letters from the Apostles in circulation but many of these letters were phony, it got to the point that no one knew what was truly inspired and what was not. The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church took on the task of sorting it all out! She with the help of the Holy Spirit decided the inspired from the phony letters! Then she puit all the inspired words of God into one book she named "The Bible"!

 

[YoursTrue]

Actually, the scriptures don't say anything about Mary's and Joseph's sexual relations, thus I'm not willing to jump to conclusions one way or the other.

Well, it's odd the way various religions handle the scriptures that talk about the word 'until' or the fact that it is written that they didn't notice Jesus wasn't with them after traveling a while, or that the words 'brothers and sisters' were used in reference to more than Jesus' disciples. And, I might mention that a Catholic approved edition of the Bible says the following (Matthew chapter 1)
"He had no relations with her until she bore a son,* and he named him Jesus." UNTIL (no other word for explanation there). UNTIL she bore a son. No relations with her UNTIL she bore a son. Couldn't be clearer, thank God. It's no wonder, isn't it, that people were literally put to death for reading the Bible during various times. Thank goodness we're living in somewhat freer times. Thank goodness for Bible prophecies.

 

[YoursTrue]

YoursTrue thank you for your reply.. There in no Old Testament that mentions Jesus they needed a teacher to find the truth!
I point out.... the early Christians had letters from the Apostles in circulation but many of these letters were phony, it got to the point that no one knew what was truly inspired and what was not. The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church took on the task of sorting it all out! She with the help of the Holy Spirit decided the inspired from the phony letters! Then she puit all the inspired words of God into one book she named "The Bible"!

Can you please explain what you mean when you say the "One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church"? (Thank you.)

 

[metis]

(Matthew chapter 1)
"He had no relations with her until she bore a son,* and he named him Jesus." UNTIL (no other word for explanation there). UNTIL she bore a son. No relations with her UNTIL she bore a son. Couldn't be clearer, thank God. It's no wonder, isn't it, that people were literally put to death for reading the Bible during various times. Thank goodness we're living in somewhat freer times. Thank goodness for Bible prophecies.

This is what is called "commentary", thus not a rewriting of the scriptures themselves.

In the 4th century, this issue came up, and the notable biblical scholar Jerome stated that the Church had always recognized Mary's perpetual virginity.

Now, personally I neither agree with that, but neither can I go to the point if saying that this was impossible. How could I possibly know? However, this is just another area whereas I lose no sleep-- whatever happened, happened.

 

[Dogknox20]

Well, it's odd the way various religions handle the scriptures that talk about the word 'until' or the fact that it is written that they didn't notice Jesus wasn't with them after traveling a while, or that the words 'brothers and sisters' were used in reference to more than Jesus' disciples. And, I might mention that a Catholic approved edition of the Bible says the following (Matthew chapter 1)
"He had no relations with her until she bore a son,* and he named him Jesus." UNTIL (no other word for explanation there). UNTIL she bore a son. No relations with her UNTIL she bore a son. Couldn't be clearer, thank God. It's no wonder, isn't it, that people were literally put to death for reading the Bible during various times. Thank goodness we're living in somewhat freer times. Thank goodness for Bible prophecies.

.
YoursTrue you jump to conclusions... This is what happens with the man made tradition of "Scripture ALONE" it forces each person to become an expert! You are NOT an expert!
Jesus did not have any brothers... You can follow the genealogy of so called brothers in the Gospels none had Mary as their mother!!

Exodus 13:1 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Consecrate to me every firstborn male. The first offspring of every womb among the Israelites belongs to me, whether human or animal.”
YoursTrue The “firstborn” were not given the title because there was a “second-born.” They were called “firstborn” at birth. Jesus being “firstborn” does not require that more siblings be born after him.

YoursTrue I may say to you, “Until we meet again, God bless you.” Does that mean after we meet again, God curse you?
2 Samuel 6:23: And Michal the daughter of Saul had no child to (until) the day of her death. (Does this mean she had children after she died?)
1 Timothy 4:13: Until I come, attend to the public reading of scripture, to preaching, to teaching. (Does this mean Timothy should stop teaching after Paul comes?)

1 Corinthians 15:25: For he (Christ) must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. (Does this mean Christ’s reign will end?)**
Luke 1:33 says,** “he will reign over the house of Jacob forever and of his kingdom there shall be no end.”

From the cross Jesus gave his Mother to the care of John even though by law the next eldest sibling would have the responsibility to care for her. The Holy Spirit is Mary’s spouse, God has ONLY one child; Jesus! Joseph became Mary’s earthly spouse and protector as well as the protector of the child Jesus. Mary was faithful to God the Holy Spirit!

The verse is pointing out Joseph was NOT the father!
But he had no sexual relations with her before she gave birth to her son. And Joseph named him Jesus.

 

[Dogknox20]

Can you please explain what you mean when you say the "One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church"? (Thank you.)

.
YoursTrue good question with a simple answer!
**Jesus established only "One" Church" he has only one body, the Catholic Church is ONE She is the Body of Jesus!
**The Church Jesus established is Holy because God is Holy....
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

**The Church Jesus established is Catholic because God is Catholic.. (Universal)

The One Holy Catholic Church Jesus established is ** Apostolic because her roots go all the way back 2000 years to the Apostles and thus Jesus!
YoursTrue there is only "One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church" none others can make this claim!

 

[YoursTrue]

This is what is called "commentary", thus not a rewriting of the scriptures themselves.

In the 4th century, this issue came up, and the notable biblical scholar Jerome stated that the Church had always recognized Mary's perpetual virginity.

Now, personally I neither agree with that, but neither can I go to the point if saying that this was impossible. How could I possibly know? However, this is just another area whereas I lose no sleep-- whatever happened, happened.

That is partially the point about believing what the Bible says. Adding the scriptures up, there is no doubt in my mind that Mary did not stay a virgin. She had marital relations with Joseph after Jesus was born. No doubt whatsoever as I read the scriptures.

 

[YoursTrue]

Actually, the scriptures don't say anything about Mary's and Joseph's sexual relations, thus I'm not willing to jump to conclusions one way or the other.

Matthew 1.25
New International Version
But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

New Living Translation
But he did not have sexual relations with her until her son was born. And Joseph named him Jesus.

English Standard Version
but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.

Berean Study Bible
But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a Son. And he gave Him the name Jesus.

To me it is absolutely without doubt of any sort clear from the Bible that Mary was not the "eternal virgin" who never had sexual relations with her husband.

 

[YoursTrue]

.
YoursTrue good question with a simple answer!
**Jesus established only "One" Church" he has only one body, the Catholic Church is ONE She is the Body of Jesus!
**The Church Jesus established is Holy because God is Holy....
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

**The Church Jesus established is Catholic because God is Catholic.. (Universal)

The One Holy Catholic Church Jesus established is ** Apostolic because her roots go all the way back 2000 years to the Apostles and thus Jesus!
YoursTrue there is only "One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church" none others can make this claim!

So I was listening to the news about the tornado in Kentucky, USA. You heard of that, didn't you? And they were interviewing a Protestant pastor there who was asked about damage to the church. He said that the people who go to his congregation is the "church." When you say the "One Holy Catholic Church" that Jesus established -- do you mean the current Roman Catholic Church you say is the "Church"?

 

[YoursTrue]

.
YoursTrue you jump to conclusions... This is what happens with the man made tradition of "Scripture ALONE" it forces each person to become an expert! You are NOT an expert!
Jesus did not have any brothers... You can follow the genealogy of so called brothers in the Gospels none had Mary as their mother!

Huh?

 

[metis]

She had marital relations with Joseph after Jesus was born.

Yes, I think the chances are that you are correct but, as I mentioned before, I don't lose any sleep on not knowing matters like this with any certainty of being correct. But if push comes to shove, I do agree with you that it was likely they did.

 

[pearl]

When you say the "One Holy Catholic Church" that Jesus established -- do you mean the current Roman Catholic Church you say is the "Church"?

A second major ecclesiological principle adopted by the Second Vatican Council is embodied in its teaching that the church is the whole People of God.
In other words, the church is not only the hierarchy, the clergy, and/or members of religious communities. It is the whole community of the baptized. In other words, the church is not only the hierarchy, the clergy, and/or members of religious communities. It is the whole community of the baptized.
The church is a communion of local churches, or dioceses, each of which is the Body of Christ in its own particular place (Lumen gentium, n. 26).
Together these local churches constitute the universal church. Their unity one with another is rooted in the presence and sanctifying activity of the Holy Spirit, manifested especially in the celebration of the Eucharist.
The Church is ecumenical, the church founded by Jesus "subsists in" the Catholic church, rather than "is" the Catholic church.

 

[Kenny]

Which one is a Cult? A or B?

'Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.' (1 Corinthians 15:24)


A. Trinitarians Claim that God hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father
B. Christians Claim Jesus hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father

Neither fits the definition of a cult

1. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.

 

[kjw47]

That one is about whether Jesus is God.
How about:
In the light of John 20:28 Thomas replied, “My Lord and my God!” 29Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Which one is the deceiver, A or B?

A. The people who say Jesus is not our God.
B. The people who say Jesus is our God.

Jesus himself answered you--John 20:17, Rev 3:12--- You wont believe Jesus over men with white collars. Because the religion that came out of Rome( son of peredition= the great apostasy) twisted much at their councils. Fact--In the year 325--The council of Nicea-no trinity god was taught, served or worshipped. It was ADDED later at another council. Fact--A man named Terrillion was considering God being a trinity in the 2nd century-Why--Because a single being God was taught and served----- FACT--- From Moses on up until this very day, the Israelite religion while serving the true God, taught, served and worshipped a single being God named-YHWH(Jehovah)--- FACT--While Jesus attended the Israelite places of worship was taught served and worshipped a single being God named-YHWH(Jehovah) as well as EVERY single bible writer--FACT says no trinity exists, all serving it in their house divided( 34,000) different trinity religions will not stand. Did they miss this simple bible milk-1Corinthians 1:10--Unity of thought( 1 truth) no division( 1 religion)

All serving that non existent god are being mislead into breaking Gods #1 commandment-daily, making that one a worker of iniquity and will hear these words from Jesus as judgement ( Matthew 7:22-23--Get away from me, i must confess i never even knew you.