Did the God of the Jews knew that other gods existed or Was he ignorant or Does that mean other Gods are false?
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Which religion invented the idea of "One god" first?
- Thread starter s2a
- Start date
Did the God of the Jews knew that other gods existed or Was he ignorant or Does that mean other Gods are false?
The formulation strikes me as a bit sloppy. But, first ...
The problem with your comparison is that your counterpose a [finished] doctrine to a poorly defined people. Were you to compare Zoroastrianism to Yahwism, I suspect that it would be very difficult to determine which first introduced unambiguous monotheism to the stage. For example, where on the trajectory from monoaltry to monotheism do we find Zorostrianism at the time of the Josiah reforms?
tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
I was going by the first strict statements of monotheism found in the redactions in Deuteronomy, which to my understanding, would have come after Hebrew contact with Zoroastrians in Persia.
However, you have a point that we cannot be sure if Zoroastrianism was strictly monotheistic or still hanging onto monolotry at the time of that contact.
Quiddity
UndertheInfluenceofGiants
Zorostrianist are perhaps more properly noted as Henotheist. Early Judaism at best would be Henotheism-lite with references to other gods in the OT. Whether said references amounted to nothing more then demi-gods, angels, or demons, and nothing to be worshipped among the Judaic people, the transition was more of recognition so far as I can tell.
About three thousand years ago the Egyptian pharaoh Akhenaten raised his god Aten, a Sun god, as the one and only true god in Egypt. His reign and ideas of only one god did not last long though. He was considered a heretic and after his death most of his monuments were either destroyed or defaced. However, historically, the Atenites were among the very first, if not the first, to embrace the idea of monotheism.
Xeper.
/Adramelek\
Xeper.
/Adramelek\
Last edited:
Quiddity
UndertheInfluenceofGiants
Most of the ancient semitic religions were a cross breed of polytheism and henotheism. Judaism at best, had the strictest form of henotheism [actually monotheism...imo]. If one wishes to call early Judaism henotheist then the strictest form of monotheism in the Abrahamaic umbrella didn't occur until the reformation with the seperation of protestants from the Catholic Church.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Name of the religion is not important; no religion invented the concept of oneness of the creator God; it has always been there; whenever a truthful Word of revelation was received it was from the one creator God:
[20:10] And has the story of Moses come to thee?
[20:11] When he saw a fire, he said to his family, Tarry ye, I perceive a fire; perhaps I may bring you a brand therefrom or find guidance at the fire.
[20:12] And when he came to it, he was called by a voice, O Moses,
[20:13] Verily, I am thy Lord. So take off thy shoes; for thou art in the sacred Valley of Tuwa.
[20:14] And I have chosen thee; so hearken to what is revealed.
[20:15] Verily, I am Allah; there is no God beside Me. So serve Me, and observe Prayer for My remembrance.
The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online
tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
1353 to 1336 BCE (The enforced monotheism did not last beyond his death)
Many historians put Zoroastrianism before that, however, as Jay pointed out, it may not have been strictly monotheistic at that time.
Did you have a point you wanted to share?
Whether we are talking here of monotheism or monolatry is difficult to say. I suspect the latter.
Satyamavejayanti
Well-Known Member
I would say Vedic religion was first to mention One God, As the rig Veda being the oldest "religious text" still available which claims one God with many names and attributes, its is probably even the first religion to recognise God as being Infinite, as there are infinite names and attributes of the one eternal being.
But you can also say that the God of the Vedas is Infinite, not just One.
Then i think the idea of one singular God, residing in Heaven is more of Judaism idea.
And if monotheism is defined by Abrahamic religions, as some one has put it like this, "Thou shalt not worship any other gods". Then only thing i can think of is Judaism,
Then Vedic religion would not be in the Monotheistic category in that sense of the word (if defined by Abrahamic sects), because it (Vedic religions) only recognises a Infinite God, It does not even mention that there are other Gods to be worshipped, or not to be worshipped.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
The truthful Religion is always and in all times and in all regions of the world is based on the Word of revelation from the one true attributive creator God; so there is no question of inventing it; "belief in one God" is the original position; change in it could be termed as invention or corruption of the original, in my opinion.
This is what my religion tells me:
[112:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[112:2] Say, He is Allah, the One;
[112:3] Allah, the Independent and Besought of all.
[112:4] He begets not, nor is He begotten;
[112:5] And there is none like unto Him.
The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online
This is what my religion tells me:
[112:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[112:2] Say, He is Allah, the One;
[112:3] Allah, the Independent and Besought of all.
[112:4] He begets not, nor is He begotten;
[112:5] And there is none like unto Him.
The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online
s2a
Heretic and part-time (skinny) Santa impersonator
Yours may be the winning claim, at least as far as any recorded accountings as might be available today but Ill leave the jury to remain a tad longer for last minute evidences and testimonials.
[FWIW, Abrahamic religions seem to want to lay claim to any original religious concepts of most any kind co-opting more than a few pagan observances as their own along the way so well yet wait and see
]
s2a
Heretic and part-time (skinny) Santa impersonator
I suppose your conclusion might prove more compelling if we all were to assume that our species has existed for a relatively short span of time on the order of thousands of years. Its the revelations of scientific inquiry that clearly demonstrate that man has been around much longer than only a few thousand years.
Only if you completely ignore all of the evidences and archeological finds to date would you then surmise that no culture, society, or assembly of frightened cave dwellers from 40,000 years ago absent any evident written language or methods of historical record beyond oral history and practiced ritual/tradition may or may not have been or monotheistic in their religion/superstitions/mythology. Its quite feasible that a small band of folks with little more than stone knives and fur suits worshipped and feared their one and only mortal foe, the almighty cave bear, or saber tooth tiger, or whatever thing that ate their offspring in the night.
Im willing to wager that 40,000 years ago, the notion of a benevolent, merciful, charitable, giving, and caring singular personalized deity was pretty far from their thinking, when obtaining food and water was everybodys job. Not many afforded luxuries of philosophical ruminations, even in most basic reflections of the why am I here? sorts of questions
Fair to say though, barring the invention of a precise time-travel machine, we are highly unlikely to ever know
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
A small correction. Aten may not have been the one and only God. He was raised to the top of the pantheon in a new Egyptian theology which many define as henotheism. One thing is true and distinct though, it was a departure from an Egyptian religion which was centered around Amun-Re and his powerful priesthood. A big rift was created between the royalty of Akhenaten and the priesthood of Amun-Re as Aten was elevated above the rest of the gods.
In general in the Near East and even in Greco-Roman civilization of the classical era we can see interesting expressions of henotheism. The rise of Yahweh from an autochtonic Canaanite pantheon is elborative of the religious development in the Near East that had institutional attempts to promote strictly monotheism during the 8th and 7th century BCE (during the reigns of Kings Hezekiah and Josiah).
The interaction between Zoroastrianim and Judaism is interesting as well. When it comes to an historical time line and Zoroastrianism, things get a bit complicated as the description of the events in which Zoroaster elevated the wise Ahura Mazda above the other deities is mixed in Persian tradition and mythology, and the Greek documenation of the Zoroastrian religion by Herodotus came about while Zoroastrianism was already in existence with some mileage.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
I suppose your conclusion might prove more compelling if we all were to assume that our species has existed for a relatively short span of time on the order of thousands of years. Its the revelations of scientific inquiry that clearly demonstrate that man has been around much longer than only a few thousand years.
Only if you completely ignore all of the evidences and archeological finds to date would you then surmise that no culture, society, or assembly of frightened cave dwellers from 40,000 years ago absent any evident written language or methods of historical record beyond oral history and practiced ritual/tradition may or may not have been or monotheistic in their religion/superstitions/mythology. Its quite feasible that a small band of folks with little more than stone knives and fur suits worshipped and feared their one and only mortal foe, the almighty cave bear, or saber tooth tiger, or whatever thing that ate their offspring in the night.
Im willing to wager that 40,000 years ago, the notion of a benevolent, merciful, charitable, giving, and caring singular personalized deity was pretty far from their thinking, when obtaining food and water was everybodys job. Not many afforded luxuries of philosophical ruminations, even in most basic reflections of the why am I here? sorts of questions
Fair to say though, barring the invention of a precise time-travel machine, we are highly unlikely to ever know
My religion or Quran does not provide any time frame; Adam was not the first person created; men and women existed before him. Adam was the first human being with whom one true attributive creator God conversed.
s2a
Heretic and part-time (skinny) Santa impersonator
Well that's nice, and somewhat convenient if one wishes to dodge lending an answer with a tad more specificity...
There is that little presentation of current cosmology that fairly well establishes our planet to be appx. 4.6 billion years old, and evolution theory that places our species origins appx. 200,000 years ago, give or take an untold number of Gilligan's Island seasonal repeats in syndication...
In either case of science's current and best available explanations of what the evidence provides us today in compelling conclusions...
..not one points to "Adam" (or any other guy with a name) as progenitor of our species, or him having arrived just a few days after the invention of "light" and water.
So, just curious, give or take a few billion years...when a child asks you, "How old is the earth in years?", what numerical answer do you offer in reply?
Just saying "older than Adam" seems a little tepid and vague to me...
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
As I said Quran does not provide a time frame for the universe and or life having been created in days, weeks, months, years, centuries etc. ; I will reply to my child and give the latest information from science which, to me, is a secular tool of the human beings and has no contradiction with the basic ethical, moral and spiritual teachings of religion.
And this is exactly what my religion teaches me.
