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Who created God?

waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Sleeppy said:
Yet, you used a dictionary to define "un" and "cause." Be honest with me. Also, the point wasn't for you to make up your own definition. It was to know whether you actually knew the definition of the word. If you knew you were arguing with a definition that I would have no way of knowing, there's something wrong there.
uncaused - definition of uncaused by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
Click to expand...

un·caused (n-kôzd)
adj.
Existing without a perceptible cause; spontaneous.

wasn't this one of my definitions?
:yes:

Also, the point wasn't for you to make up your own definition. It was to know whether you actually knew the definition of the word. If you knew you were arguing with a definition that I would have no way of knowing, there's something wrong there.
Click to expand...
no, you asked me how i defined it...
i did
 
Last edited:
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Sleeppy said:
You're right. I'm sure I can think of several other things to do instead of replying to a spiteful mindset. Honestly, I likely would have stepped in anyway.

It's amusing that you think I don't have reasons for believing in my God. Everyone in these forums, I'm sure, has their reasons for whatever they believe. It's actually insulting.

But, you can ask Waitasec how I respond to certain tones. Your spite isn't something I'm interested in entertaining.
Click to expand...

faith is the reason, right?

faith of an uncaused cause...which is really saying nothing caused god
it is in faith that it makes sense to you, right?
 
Super Universe

Super Universe

Defender of God
jamesmorrow said:
Please resist the urge to say "man". That is not what this thread is about.

I have always wondered about the assertion that God has always existed.

If God has always existed in his present form, with all of his specific characteristics and attributes, it only stands to reason that at no point did God choose his good, merciful, forgiving, loving etc nature, since he always was that way. God did not create himself at one point because he always existed. God did not choose to be good or evil, because he was always good and anti evil. God had no choice, no say, no imput, no control over his own existence because he always was the way he was for as long as he could remember(which is forever).

So, if god had no control over his own existence, who or what did? who or what chose his specific existence, his characteristics, his attributes and abilities for him? could it have been another being?? surely not, because god always existed, leaving no room for another being to exist before him. The only possible explanation is that random chance and nothingness allowed for this infinitely complex being's existence, in all its splendor, glory and intelligence.

Question for those who believe in intelligent design because they reason that our observable universe is just too complex, specific, and detailed not to have been created and designed by a mastermind:

What logic or reason do you follow when you assert that it is unreasonable to believe that random chance and nothingness are the cause of our complex universe, yet deem it reasonable to believe that random chance and nothingness are the cause of the infinitely more complex mastermind that created our universe?
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Most people think of God as being separate from the universe, it's not so because it can't be so. God IS the universe. Now, don't reduce that to thinking that God is only inanimate matter and energy, the universe has personality so God is also that as well.

An athiest might think that since believers can't answer the question "Where did God come from" that we are inherently wrong, but an athiest can't answer where everything came from either.

Anyway, to attempt to answer your original post question:

A being awoke in the void with no understanding of its origin. This being tried many things at first, all failures, then something worked, then another thing worked, and another. This being learned about it's environment through trial and error. To make a very long story very short, this being learned everything about it's environment so that it found what could be called the main control center of the universe. When the being entered he found it empty and only then did he remember that he created it himself.

Essentially, the chicken went back in time and set in motion the events that would create himself.

To address your question of intelligent design. How often have we found a samurai sword in volcanic rock? How often a computer? An airplane? A vehicle?
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Sleeppy said:
Was it?
Click to expand...

Super Universe said:
Most people think of God as being separate from the universe, it's not so because it can't be so. God IS the universe. Now, don't reduce that to thinking that God is only inanimate matter and energy, the universe has personality so God is also that as well.

An athiest might think that since believers can't answer the question "Where did God come from" that we are inherently wrong, but an athiest can't answer where everything came from either.

Anyway, to attempt to answer your original post question:

A being awoke in the void with no understanding of its origin. This being tried many things at first, all failures, then something worked, then another thing worked, and another. This being learned about it's environment through trial and error. To make a very long story very short, this being learned everything about it's environment so that it found what could be called the main control center of the universe. When the being entered he found it empty and only then did he remember that he created it himself.

Essentially, the chicken went back in time and set in motion the events that would create himself.

To address your question of intelligent design. How often have we found a samurai sword in volcanic rock? How often a computer? An airplane? A vehicle?
Click to expand...

i think the best way to approach this impossible question is to say...
i am limited in my understanding and since i value my integrity i will not pretend to know the answer to this impossible question
 
Daviso452

Daviso452

Boy Genius
Super Universe said:
To address your question of intelligent design. How often have we found a samurai sword in volcanic rock? How often a computer? An airplane? A vehicle?
Click to expand...

How often do we find snowflakes in nature? In a lab? On a mountain? In a Petri dish? Snowflakes are very complex. But they are just a natural result of nature, a result we can re-create. No deity involved.
 
J

jamesmorrow

Active Member
Sleeppy said:
You're right. I'm sure I can think of several other things to do instead of replying to a spiteful mindset. Honestly, I likely would have stepped in anyway.

It's amusing that you think I don't have reasons for believing in my God. Everyone in these forums, I'm sure, has their reasons for whatever they believe. It's actually insulting.

But, you can ask Waitasec how I respond to certain tones. Your spite isn't something I'm interested in entertaining.
Click to expand...



and this is what we call "pulling the offended theist card" in order to weasel your way out of a sticky situation
 
J

jamesmorrow

Active Member
waitasec said:
i think the best way to approach this impossible question is to say...
i am limited in my understanding and since i value my integrity i will not pretend to know the answer to this impossible question
Click to expand...


and this is what we call pulling the "we are too limited to understand" card.
 
J

jamesmorrow

Active Member
A CONVERSATION BETWEEN SLEEPY AND JAMESMORROW:



Sleeppy: "Everything except nothingness has design."


jamesmorrow: "do you believe that the universe WAS DESIGNED? do you believe that god WAS DESIGNED?"


Sleeppy: "I believe that God has always been in His design, not designed. I believe the universe is designed by God."


jamesmorrow: "what is your logic, or reasoning by which you conclude that our universe's design implies a designer yet god's design does not imply a designer?"


Sleeppy: "The fact of design is not the reason I believe in a designer."


jamesmorrow: "If the fact of design is not the reason you believe in a designer, what is the reason you believe in a designer?"


Sleeppy: "I don't have any interest in your question"


L.M.F.A.O. I THINK I MIGHT JUST MAKE THIS MY SIGNATURE. :D

anyone who followed this thread knows i did not make any of this up.
 
Daviso452

Daviso452

Boy Genius
jamesmorrow said:
A CONVERSATION BETWEEN SLEEPY AND JAMESMORROW:



Sleeppy: "Everything except nothingness has design."


jamesmorrow: "do you believe that the universe WAS DESIGNED? do you believe that god WAS DESIGNED?"


Sleeppy: "I believe that God has always been in His design, not designed. I believe the universe is designed by God."


jamesmorrow: "what is your logic, or reasoning by which you conclude that our universe's design implies a designer yet god's design does not imply a designer?"


Sleeppy: "The fact of design is not the reason I believe in a designer."


jamesmorrow: "If the fact of design is not the reason you believe in a designer, what is the reason you believe in a designer?"


Sleeppy: "I don't have any interest in your question"


L.M.F.A.O. I THINK I MIGHT JUST MAKE THIS MY SIGNATURE. :D

anyone who followed this thread knows i did not make any of this up.
Click to expand...

Doesn't work. too many characters.
 
Sleeppy

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
jamesmorrow said:
A CONVERSATION BETWEEN SLEEPY AND JAMESMORROW:



Sleeppy: "Everything except nothingness has design."


jamesmorrow: "do you believe that the universe WAS DESIGNED? do you believe that god WAS DESIGNED?"


Sleeppy: "I believe that God has always been in His design, not designed. I believe the universe is designed by God."


jamesmorrow: "what is your logic, or reasoning by which you conclude that our universe's design implies a designer yet god's design does not imply a designer?"


Sleeppy: "The fact of design is not the reason I believe in a designer."


jamesmorrow: "If the fact of design is not the reason you believe in a designer, what is the reason you believe in a designer?"


Sleeppy: "I don't have any interest in your question"


L.M.F.A.O. I THINK I MIGHT JUST MAKE THIS MY SIGNATURE. :D

anyone who followed this thread knows i did not make any of this up.
Click to expand...

Are you offended?
 
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