Who created God?

[LegionOnomaMoi]

But just to be clear, even though the universe did not exist before the big bang, all matter and energy did; that was what made up the singularity.

Matter didn't exist. The singularity was a "point" in 0-dimensional space. Basically, it was "nothing":"the universe began when both its gravitational energy and kinetic energy were arbitrarily close to zero. It literally began from nothing..." from p. 137 of Silk, J (2006). Infinite Cosmos: Questions from the Frontiers of Cosmology. Oxford: Oxford University Press. Additionally, even after the big bang, there wasn't matter (or rather, matter and energy were not seperate). That came a bit later. In the beginning, none of the physical laws governing the universe existed. As Yulsman put it (Institute of Physics Publishing, 2002): "In the very early universe, phase changes in the primordial soup did not involve molecules or atoms, which didn’t exist yet. Instead, they involved transitions from a universe dominated by the grand unified force to one dominated by the multiple forces we know today."

 

[Daviso452]

Matter didn't exist. The singularity was a "point" in 0-dimensional space. Basically, it was "nothing":"the universe began when both its gravitational energy and kinetic energy were arbitrarily close to zero. It literally began from nothing..." from p. 137 of Silk, J (2006). Infinite Cosmos: Questions from the Frontiers of Cosmology. Oxford: Oxford University Press. Additionally, even after the big bang, there wasn't matter (or rather, matter and energy were not seperate). That came a bit later. In the beginning, none of the physical laws governing the universe existed. As Yulsman put it (Institute of Physics Publishing, 2002): "In the very early universe, phase changes in the primordial soup did not involve molecules or atoms, which didn’t exist yet. Instead, they involved transitions from a universe dominated by the grand unified force to one dominated by the multiple forces we know today."

I'll give you this one. I don't know exactly what to site, but I do believe I have read differently. Perhaps not. I'll see if I can get back to you on this. Otherwise, good argumentative skills

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

I'll give you this one. I don't know exactly what to site, but I do believe I have read differently. Perhaps not. I'll see if I can get back to you on this. Otherwise, good argumentative skills

Thank you. And hopefully I can be as gracious more often when I don't have the supporting material for my view on hand.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..what is your logic, or reasoning by which you conclude that our universe's design implies a designer yet god's design does not imply a designer?

What is "god's design" supposed to mean? Can you see it? Can you touch it? No ..
We are able to observe the univese, and marvel at it's order and beauty..

Those with spiritual knowledge are also able to 'observe' God with their mind's eye
His 'design' is purely conceptual, and is influenced by your knowledge (or lack thereof)

 

[jamesmorrow]

What is "god's design" supposed to mean? Can you see it? Can you touch it? No ..
We are able to observe the univese, and marvel at it's order and beauty..

Those with spiritual knowledge are also able to 'observe' God with their mind's eye
His 'design' is purely conceptual, and is influenced by your knowledge (or lack thereof)

The interpretation of your god's design is a theological discussion for theists. I have no business going there. Im just picking up on sleeppy's remark that everything,including god has design,yet god' s design does not imply a designer while everything else's design does imply a designer. Hopefully he will come back and explain his reasoning there.

 

[Sleeppy]

i am saying if your argument that nothing makes nothing and only something can make something, then your argument of god being the uncaused cause is essentially saying nothing created something...
just as i can say big bang

What does uncaused cause mean to you? Define it for me.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

What does uncaused cause mean to you?

That someone is willing to sacrifice logical consistency for their pre-drawn irrational assumptions.

 

[jamesmorrow]

Sleeppy: i ask again. If "the fact of design" is not the reason you believe in a designer, what is the reason you believe in a designer?

If you can not think of a reason besides "the fact of design" for why you believe in a designer, just say so. But ignoring a question because you do not have a good answer is not the way to go

 

[waitasec]

What does uncaused cause mean to you? Define it for me.

cause (kôz)
n.
1.The producer of an effect, result, or consequence.

vb
(tr) to be the cause of; bring about; precipitate; be the reason for

the prefix
un
meaning
not, or the opposite of.
Prefixes un- and dis-

uncaused means not the producer of an effect or result;
not to be the cause of;
not the cause to bring about;
not the cause of precipitation;
not the cause to be the reason for

the prime mover is essentially nothing...as an uncaused cause.

there's the argument of always being in our understanding of time
vs. one point in time...time being the of the essence.
our reality is dependent on time...i cannot understand what un time is...i am not a quantum physicist and i am assuming, maybe i'm wrong, neither are you.
so what does all this have to do with....life in our reality of time?
nothing.

 

[Sleeppy]

That someone is willing to sacrifice logical consistency for their pre-drawn irrational assumptions.

Did I do something to offend you?

 

[Sleeppy]

Sleeppy: i ask again. If "the fact of design" is not the reason you believe in a designer, what is the reason you believe in a designer?

If you can not think of a reason besides "the fact of design" for why you believe in a designer, just say so. But ignoring a question because you do not have a good answer is not the way to go

I don't have any interest in your question. Make another thread with that specific question and I'll likely step in when I have nothing better to do.

 

[Sleeppy]

cause (kôz)
n.
1.The producer of an effect, result, or consequence.

vb
(tr) to be the cause of; bring about; precipitate; be the reason for

the prefix
un
meaning
not, or the opposite of.
Prefixes un- and dis-

uncaused means not the producer of an effect or result;
not to be the cause of;
not the cause to bring about;
not the cause of precipitation;
not the cause to be the reason for

the prime mover is essentially nothing...as an uncaused cause.

No. Caused has a different tense and usage than cause.

Something caused, is an effect, result, or consequence (of a producer).

You can actually just look up the full word, "uncaused."

 

[jamesmorrow]

I don't have any interest in your question. Make another thread with that specific question and I'll likely step in when I have nothing better to do.

You dont have any interest in my question, but if i open another thread with that question you will answer it if you have nothing better to do? Better like what? Better like coming up with a clever way to avoid the question by telling me just how disinterested you are in it? A question which ironically enough you have set yourself up for as a result of avoiding my previous question.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Did I do something to offend you?

Not at all. Why do you ask?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Man created gods. I know this wasn't the answer you were looking for but I feel it is the correct one.

 

[waitasec]

No. Caused has a different tense and usage than cause.

Something caused, is an effect, result, or consequence (of a producer).

you asked

What does uncaused cause mean to you? Define it for me.

i am not going to change my definition of uncaused because it doesn't fit yours
:sorry1:

You can actually just look up the full word, "uncaused."

can you provide a link?

 

[waitasec]

I don't have any interest in your question. Make another thread with that specific question and I'll likely step in when I have nothing better to do.

sure you will...
:run:

 

[jamesmorrow]

sure you will...
:run:

If sleeppy only put half as much energy and dedication in honesty and critical thinking as he does in the art of evasion and weaselology.......

 

[Sleeppy]

you asked

i am not going to change my definition of uncaused because it doesn't fit yours
:sorry1:

can you provide a link?

Yet, you used a dictionary to define "un" and "cause." Be honest with me. Also, the point wasn't for you to make up your own definition. It was to know whether you actually knew the definition of the word. If you knew you were arguing with a definition that I would have no way of knowing, there's something wrong there.

uncaused - definition of uncaused by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

 

[Sleeppy]

You dont have any interest in my question, but if i open another thread with that question you will answer it if you have nothing better to do? Better like what? Better like coming up with a clever way to avoid the question by telling me just how disinterested you are in it? A question which ironically enough you have set yourself up for as a result of avoiding my previous question.

You're right. I'm sure I can think of several other things to do instead of replying to a spiteful mindset. Honestly, I likely would have stepped in anyway.

It's amusing that you think I don't have reasons for believing in my God. Everyone in these forums, I'm sure, has their reasons for whatever they believe. It's actually insulting.

But, you can ask Waitasec how I respond to certain tones. Your spite isn't something I'm interested in entertaining.