Who here is enlightened?

[ratikala]

dear deciple ,

None of this matters if you can't tell what is and isn't illusion.

any one of us can look back to a point in our lives where we have experienced a situation which was difficult to deal with at that point and prehaps seemed too large to surmount , yet looking back on it in retrospect we are now able to look objectively , therefore being now detatched from the situation we veiw it differently , thus can see that the emotional attatchment allthough feeling real causes us to see things in a very different light .

so which is real ? and which is illusion ? many things seem real but lack substance , these temporary things I am calling illusion .

similarly with a point or principle that we are struggling to understand , we may read up on it and try our hardest to come to terms with it , yet it wont sit happily , we just dont quite get it ? ..... often we walk away from it scratching our heads , but usualy days , months or years later something just falls into place and now that point may be seen perfectly clearly , then one can automaticaly see where ones reasoning was wrong or incomplete , .... one can descern ignorance from realisation , and illusion from reality .

hope that makes some sence ?

 

[Prophet]

And by most you mean to exclude, for example, myself, because I have carefully questioned you, and found that your claims are false.

You have questioned me and found my claims false, but I wonder: What is your standard for finding any claims true or false? This is a very important question, because this is truly the same standard you use to form belief. If your standard is anything less than proof, you are effectively blinded by belief.

Assuming your standard is proof and you are not blinded by belief, I would ask you to supply evidence here that you have proven a single claim of mine wrong so that we may discuss the veracity of your "finding" my claim false. Use any claims I've written on these forums. Use any proofs you have written or have yet to write.

And yet you also posted this -

The significant point here is that it was my 'unsolicited advice' to study social work and counseling which you totally flamed, despite the quote above clearly showing that it was a very well-based warning about 'imminent danger' to others.

And how does the event of "my "disciples..developed serious sanity issues because I didn't know I was playing with fire" that stack up with this -

You've not asked any questions to understand. You don't know who these people are to me. You don't know what kind of information passed between me and them. These are all examples of very relevant information one would attempt to obtain were he interested in making an informed decision on a claim. Rather than learn what I am saying you choose blindness by beginning on the attack. You prejudice. You form a belief before you have seen proof.

It is an interesting claim you've proposed that your unsolicited advice falls under the category of warning me of imminent danger rather than a superiority complex. Where I see it to fail, however, is after I tell you that I am not interested in your advice, you continue to not only push the unsolicited and unwanted advice, but also you attempt to jest of me amongst our peers here.

If you were truly only giving me advice through concern as a brother, you would have honored my wish to be left alone by you and wish me well. You have not. You are like a man who is warning people on the beach that sharks are about, but you do not stop warning them when you are disregarded. You shout at them from the shore and you attempt to get others standing on the shore with you to make fun of them along with you. Is this how you show concern for others? Do you see how your motives appear in this light? You are claiming to be acting out of concern for others but, in reality, you are acting out of insecurity, so unsure of yourself, you resort to spewing pure ignorance about me, as you are clearly discouraged with how effortlessly I dispatch every argument you present by demonstrating that they are the result of hypocrisy.

In this case, I have provided a clear example of me taking your claim (that you were acting out of selfless concern for others) and providing a clear and cogent argument against it. Can you dispute it or provide anything like it to dispute any claim I make? Is not pretending to act out of selflessness while secretly maintaining selfish motives not the most basic example of hypocrisy?

The rest of your post was an interesting interpretation of why I mostly try to avoid you, but I think I've covered the real reason I avoid you above pretty well. I find it unchallenging and unfruitful making you look bad.

 

[chinu]

dear chinu bai ,

I have chosen ,
this one please ,

[youtube]Yd0Wbli39zA[/youtube]
Sain Zahoor Ahmed - Bullah, kii jana main kaun .mp4 - YouTube
I eagerly await your reply :namaste

Well.. i just changed it little bit, like.. names of the countries/cities.

Bulla! i don't know, who i am,　
Neither an imam in the mosque, nor the follower of rubbish vogue,
Neither indulge in sacredness concept, nor am musa or a pharaoh resultant.
~
Neither readed any ved puran, nor do i take hemp and wine magnums,
Neither am any crazy drunkard, nor do i awake or in sleeping meander.
~
Neither married or a celibate, nor am clean or a filthy mire.
Water, fire or a earth, nor from air is my birth.
~
Neither american or an australian, nor russian or a mongolian.
India, china or japan, nor do i live in afganistan.
~
Neither searched any religious secret, nor am the family of adam or eve,
Neither do any name i assume, nor in the stillness or am in move.
~
Well.. am the beganing am the end, all i ignore, as am wisest all of them.
Bulla! who is standing there ? I don't know, who i am.

 

[Muffled]

I believe I have more light than I previously had so I would say that I have been enlightened and I keep receiving new light so I am being enlightened.

However if the inference is that I know everyhing then I don't believe i do or that I need to.

 

[ratikala]

dear chinu bai,

thankyou so much for this translation , to me it is so utterly beautifull ....

Well.. i just changed it little bit, like.. names of the countries/cities.

Bulla! i don't know, who i am,　
Neither an imam in the mosque, nor the follower of rubbish vogue,
Neither indulge in sacredness concept, nor am musa or a pharaoh resultant.
~
Neither readed any ved puran, nor do i take hemp and wine magnums,
Neither am any crazy drunkard, nor do i awake or in sleeping meander.
~
Neither married or a celibate, nor am clean or a filthy mire.
Water, fire or a earth, nor from air is my birth.
~
Neither american or an australian, nor russian or a mongolian.
India, china or japan, nor do i live in afganistan.
~
Neither searched any religious secret, nor am the family of adam or eve,
Neither do any name i assume, nor in the stillness or am in move.
~
Well.. am the beganing am the end, all i ignore, as am wisest all of them.
Bulla! who is standing there ? I don't know, who i am.

every translation I have read adds a little more to the understanding .

If you would be willing I would love to open this up for discussion in the theists section , if we are going to talk about enlightenment then let it be a conversation about this being who is saying .. I .."am the beganing am the end, all i ignore, as am wisest all of them.".... if we are enlightend then that enlightenment is only knowledge of god so it is better that we discuss god rather than our own levels of atainment
.

 

[Ouroboros]

A better question to ask instead of "who here is enlightened" is to ask "who here has a light?"

 

[YmirGF]

A better question to ask instead of "who here is enlightened" is to ask "who here has a light?"

I don't think I can get too fired up over than one. :drool:

 

[outhouse]

(Serious question.)

Use whatever word is applicable in your worldview, be it enlightenment, moksha, nibbana, one with the universe, etc. I'll use 'enlightenment' for the rest of this post but mentally substitute in your own word as you read it.

Does anyone on this forum claim to be enlightened? If so, please post here so we can talk. I'd like to see who here claims to have reached enlightenment.

The reason I ask is, many people talk about what enlightenment is, how to get there, what it's like, that it is a true concept, etc.

So if you consider yourself enlightened, I invite you to post here. Perhaps you could start by explaining what enlightenment is to you, how you achieved it, how you know you achieved it, and what it is like.

Enlightenment is.

having the knowledge to undertand a general overview of how and why different cultures created and applied theology to match their cultural needs, wants and desires.

To be able to look down from a high place and see everything, and know why it is taking place.

As the word sounds it is about gaining knowledge and having a greater understanding of the whole picture.



I dont place myself in this position. But I will not disount my position either.

 

[ratikala]

A better question to ask instead of "who here is enlightened" is to ask "who here has a light?"

A light ? .... there is only one light

 

[Ouroboros]

A light ? .... there is only one light

So the question is "who has that dang light?" Or maybe it is "who has new batteries?"

 

[Me Myself]

His followers view him as a bodhisattva.

Tis doesnt always means enlightened. One interpretation is that a bodhisattva chooses to not get enlightened so he can stay further in the cycle of rebirth and death, and does so so he can teach other souls.

 

[steeltoes]

(Serious question.)

Use whatever word is applicable in your worldview, be it enlightenment, moksha, nibbana, one with the universe, etc. I'll use 'enlightenment' for the rest of this post but mentally substitute in your own word as you read it.

Does anyone on this forum claim to be enlightened? If so, please post here so we can talk. I'd like to see who here claims to have reached enlightenment.

The reason I ask is, many people talk about what enlightenment is, how to get there, what it's like, that it is a true concept, etc.

So if you consider yourself enlightened, I invite you to post here. Perhaps you could start by explaining what enlightenment is to you, how you achieved it, how you know you achieved it, and what it is like.

It is my understanding that enlightenment is achieved once one has freed him/herself of religious belief. I hope I have succeeded.

 

[ratikala]

dear ouroboros ,

So the question is "who has that dang light?" Or maybe it is "who has new batteries?"

prabhu ji it is simply a question of faith ,

that light is everywhere , inside and out , it is simply a question of waking up , wiping the dust from our eyes , ....



ask and you shall receive , ...:namaste

 

[Musty]

It's an odd thing because you can only take a persons word that they are enlightened. Personally I see the purpose of enlightenment as a carot and stick to encourage people to follow practices which are believed to be beneficial.

 

[ratikala]

dear musty ,

It's an odd thing because you can only take a persons word that they are enlightened. Personally I see the purpose of enlightenment as a carot and stick to encourage people to follow practices which are believed to be beneficial.

but remember what buddha said , dont take anything on faith alone , he advised his deciples to examine the teachings to put them to the test ,
only by such examination will one see the true nature of an enlightened being ,...

again it is only by examination that one might understand the wisdom of an enlightened being , by developing ones own discriminating awareness .

what is the point beliving something to be benificial ? one needs to know for certain , therefore one needs to examine .

 

[chinu]

@ Who here is enlightened ?
Suger is mixed in a glass of water, Now.. who knows the water is sweet, until drinking it.

 

[Me Myself]

Des the lighht coming o ut of my i pad count?

 

[HeatherHeart]

Only God can say who is "enightened", but to know the truth and break away from lies is definitely a start! I believe listening to the Holy Spirit and letting Him guide you will keep you on the path to enlightenment. He will literally "light" your path.:angel2:

 

[Muffled]

A better question to ask instead of "who here is enlightened" is to ask "who here has a light?"

Joh 8:12 Again therefore Jesus spake unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life.

I have Jesus therefore I have The Light.

 

[Prophet]

It's an odd thing because you can only take a persons word that they are enlightened. Personally I see the purpose of enlightenment as a carot and stick to encourage people to follow practices which are believed to be beneficial.

I believe your first sentence isn't true. What us so-called enlightened beings say might differ quite a bit from each other, but what is certainly true of all who believe themselves to be enlightened is that they believe that they've realized profound truth. If a realization of profound truth is an acceptable definition of enlightenment, and I believe I have demonstrated it to be so, then to examine the validity of said revealed truths seems to be the most rational way to determine the validity of said enlightenment. Isn't this better than taking someone at their word?

I don't agree with your second sentence either. But, one disagreement at a time.