Who here is enlightened?

[Repox]

I feel enlightened from my dreams, I know things about God, angels, Satan, heaven, and the universe that not one else seems to know. I like discussing them, but I don't like hostile arguments or angry replies.

 

[Leilaniana]

To be blunt, that's crap. You presume this. If you actually read the writings, these "presumers" speak all the time about dying to self.

:clap

 

[Leilaniana]

I feel enlightened from my dreams, I know things about God, angels, Satan, heaven, and the universe that not one else seems to know. I like discussing them, but I don't like hostile arguments or angry replies.

I am here trying to get my bearings as to what people think or say that enlightenment is and it is an interesting read I must say!

there should be multiple definitions of enlightenment so that we know which one whomever is talking about. and there are but no one knows them.

I first thought I was enlightened when I realized evil is not real or the devil or satan whatever. But that is my perspective.

 

[nash8]

I am here trying to get my bearings as to what people think or say that enlightenment is and it is an interesting read I must say!

there should be multiple definitions of enlightenment so that we know which one whomever is talking about. and there are but no one knows them.

I first thought I was enlightened when I realized evil is not real or the devil or satan whatever. But that is my perspective.

A good point, I believe enlightenment to be relative. We tend to base our views of enlightenment based upon ideas that other people have communicated, most notably the Buddha, and other "prophets" for lack of a better word. I think someone becomes enlightened everytime they learn something new.

 

[Leilaniana]

that's just it, learning something new isn't what buddha was talking about. it's a specific experience that is the fruit of walking the path. the path that Buddha, Jesus, (insert prophet here) has produced after making their own independent light.

All of these faiths produce lanterns for a path of inner truth, peace, etc. anyone can say " I am carrying a lantern~!" But, the goal is to produce your own lantern not carry one someone else made. then you are enlightened by your own light and not an others.

 

[YmirGF]

A good point, I believe enlightenment to be relative. We tend to base our views of enlightenment based upon ideas that other people have communicated, most notably the Buddha, and other "prophets" for lack of a better word. I think someone becomes enlightened everytime they learn something new.

To the point where being "enlightened" no longer has much meaning... The concept presupposes that Buddhists actually know what they are talking about. Me? I'm not so sure anymore... Creaturehood is a wonderful concept however...

 

[apophenia]

there should be multiple definitions of enlightenment so that we know which one whomever is talking about. and there are but no one knows them.

A frubal for you.

I first thought I was enlightened when I realized evil is not real or the devil or satan whatever. But that is my perspective.

Yep. It's a moving feast.

We are all subject to floccinaucinihilipilification here on RF.

 

[chinu]

You're 'fed up' Chinu ? This thread isn't 'coming again and again in front of [your] eyes.' You are choosing to read it, just like anyone else who reads it.

What's your problem ? Tell me

What kind of problems get an enlightened being 'fed up' ? Tell us ! it is only your opinion - but that is true for everyone here... even you and me

But since you are enlightened and fed up with other people's posts, tell us why that is and how it feels for you. That would be more interesting and more valuable than all the 'getting god' stuff. We've all heard that a million times, and it gets very boring, and it doesn't help anyone (IMO). But why is an enlightened being fed up ? That is an interesting subject.

But don't answer this unless you are truly serious, we don't need you to waste our time. We can do that for ourselves LOL

Of course I will answer you your question by not wasting your time, but I don't think anybody else want to ask me this question, So am just wondering that why are you asking me all this on the behalf of others ? whereas I don't think that anybody is with you.

 

[NIX]

A good point, I believe enlightenment to be relative. We tend to base our views of enlightenment based upon ideas that other people have communicated, most notably the Buddha, and other "prophets" for lack of a better word. I think someone becomes enlightened everytime they learn something new.

The only view of the transcendent is one's own direct experience of it. "Being in it" so to speak.
"Enlightenment" is just a tag we stick on such experiences in an attempt to share, explain or describe our memories of such ineffable experiences and the lasting results/change they have caused in us- including the ways in which this indescribable experience has altered our perception/s of 'reality'.

The word 'Enlightenment', like the word 'God', is such a preloaded word in so many people's minds that it tends to speak more to/about the listener's pre-concieved notions of the word, than it does of the describer's actual experience.

I try to avoid the use of loaded words, and instead just describe my own experiences in my own terms (non 'religious' ones). If I really want to make the effort for whatever reasons.

 

[nash8]

that's just it, learning something new isn't what buddha was talking about. it's a specific experience that is the fruit of walking the path. the path that Buddha, Jesus, (insert prophet here) has produced after making their own independent light.

All of these faiths produce lanterns for a path of inner truth, peace, etc. anyone can say " I am carrying a lantern~!" But, the goal is to produce your own lantern not carry one someone else made. then you are enlightened by your own light and not an others.

Yeah, but did Buddha, Jesus, (insert prophet here) all walk the same path? And by carrying "their" lantern does it imply that you just borrowed theirs, or that you built your own based on their directions? I dunno about you, but I like directions, it makes things much easier, but at the same time I like making modifications on my own accord as well.

Buddha carried an oil lantern, Jesus carried a torch, and I wanna carry a battery operated, lunar activated super lantern. But I also realize that the light sources carried by Buddha, Jesus, (insert prophet here) give me the ability to to see what I'm doing in order to build my "super lantern" lol.

To the point where being "enlightened" no longer has much meaning... The concept presupposes that Buddhists actually know what they are talking about. Me? I'm not so sure anymore... Creaturehood is a wonderful concept however...

Lol, I was kinda thinking the same thing. But at the same time I think Buddhists do know they are talking about, but I think they take the easy way out. They take the elevator as opposed to walking the mountain. An effective approach no doubt, but walking the mountain is so much more fun for me. Unless you come up to a 100 ft vertical cliff, but then again, what if the elevator cable snaps.

The only view of the transcendent is one's own direct experience of it. "Being in it" so to speak.
"Enlightenment" is just a tag we stick on such experiences in an attempt to share, explain or describe our memories of such ineffable experiences and the lasting results/change they have caused in us- including the ways in which this indescribable experience has altered our perception/s of 'reality'.

The word 'Enlightenment', like the word 'God', is such a preloaded word in so many people's minds that it tends to speak more to/about the listener's pre-concieved notions of the word, than it does of the describer's actual experience.

I try to avoid the use of loaded words, and instead just describe my own experiences in my own terms (non 'religious' ones). If I really want to make the effort for whatever reasons.

Agreed, but what if one obtained the ability to carry this "experience" into every moment of their life? Is it possible for a person to constantly experience this experience. And every word, action, and movement was a direct result of constantly experiencing this particular state of concioiusness?

 

[NIX]

Agreed, but what if one obtained the ability to carry this "experience" into every moment of their life? Is it possible for a person to constantly experience this experience. And every word, action, and movement was a direct result of constantly experiencing this particular state of concioiusness?

In my experience, 'you' don't carry the experience-- the experience carries you.
When you shift out into a new paradigm you no longer view your self or the world that surrounds you the way you used to (through the old one). You might say that you have moved to a new 'state'.

For some people the 'move' is too much. Too ungrounding. Too disruptive to the life and terms they used to live by. So they move back to their old state, and build a shrine to the memories of a journey they once took 'outside the gates'.

 

[Leilaniana]

The concept presupposes that Buddhists actually know what they are talking about. Me? I'm not so sure anymore... Creaturehood is a wonderful concept however...

I wouldn't say just Buddhists. I am not a Buddhist. I am not, not a Buddhist.
I try very hard to know what I'm talking about or not be talking at all. However, I'm pretty sure I know what the Buddhists are talking about too.

 

[nash8]

In my experience, 'you' don't carry the experience-- the experience carries you.
When you shift out into a new paradigm you no longer view your self or the world that surrounds you the way you used to (through the old one). You might say that you have moved to a new 'state'.

For some people the 'move' is too much. Too ungrounding. Too disruptive to the life and terms they used to live by. So they move back to their old state, and build a shrine to the memories of a journey they once took 'outside the gates'.

I would agree, that is how it is for me too. But do you not deem it possible to carry the experience? Or more specifically to have the experience constantly carry you, which would also imply that you constantly carry the experience.

 

[Leilaniana]

For some people the 'move' is too much. Too ungrounding. Too disruptive to the life and terms they used to live by. So they move back to their old state, and build a shrine to the memories of a journey they once took 'outside the gates'.

In real life most people know they are moving, have people to help, know where they are going, and it isn't to the middle of nowhere when you unpack. what is the purpose of the move?.

It is very ungrounding and disorienting. It is like it happened to me and I don't know why or what to do now. I wasn't trying to make it happen. And it's not like I can move back. too much changed ya can't just undo it. nirvana doesn't have a rewind to before whatever one calls it happens. I can't just unknow past lives or lots of things. the gates closed behind me there are no outside the gates options. That sound is unforgettable.

 

[Leilaniana]

A frubal for you.

Thank you

What are frubals exactly? how do I give them ?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

What are frubals exactly? how do I give them ?

Only the enlightened can inform you...

Someone will be along shortly...

 

[Leilaniana]

Yeah, but did Buddha, Jesus, (insert prophet here) all walk the same path? And by carrying "their" lantern does it imply that you just borrowed theirs, or that you built your own based on their directions? I dunno about you, but I like directions, it makes things much easier, but at the same time I like making modifications on my own accord as well.

Buddha carried an oil lantern, Jesus carried a torch, and I wanna carry a battery operated, lunar activated super lantern. But I also realize that the light sources carried by Buddha, Jesus, (insert prophet here) give me the ability to to see what I'm doing in order to build my "super lantern" lol.

Yes, they all walked the same path. In different times places and languages. same path.

I like your super lantern. we should all make super lanterns. a nice lunar reflective solar power hand crank battery backup torch oil lamp with a candle on top and fireflies blinking so any type of light you want at any time can light the way..... if I could draw i would sooo draw that!!

then Buddha Jesus and Rumi walk out of the darkness with auras blazing confused by the superlanterns.

 

[Windwalker]

In my experience, 'you' don't carry the experience-- the experience carries you.
When you shift out into a new paradigm you no longer view your self or the world that surrounds you the way you used to (through the old one). You might say that you have moved to a new 'state'.

For some people the 'move' is too much. Too ungrounding. Too disruptive to the life and terms they used to live by. So they move back to their old state, and build a shrine to the memories of a journey they once took 'outside the gates'.

I'm glad to hear the points you've been raising here. They merit some discussion. First as far as what we call enlightenment, we have to look at some traditional context. What people generally describe, and I would agree, can really be translated into an absolute freedom, Freedom itself. It is liberation from the constrictions that bind the mind and spirit. I see the term 'salvation' as pointing to the same thing. It is the condition of Freedom in the absolute sense. It is Being itself, beyond defining it. It is Love itself with no object. And so on. These are descriptions, and I don't think anyone has an issue understanding that state of Being is beyond conceptualizing, or that it is realized through reasoning our way to it through the mind.

Now to states and stages. What you are touching on is very true how we can have these enlightenment experiences at any time in our lives. I did when I was 18 and it forever changed the course of my life to this day. As you say, it stays with you. It's been the core of my life ever since. That was what can be termed a "state experience". These are defined as temporary experiences that anyone can have at any time. It rockets us beyond our current stage of development, the eyes through which are the average-mode of consciousness we inhabit on a daily basis, our general self-image, worldviews, mode of thinking, etc. Those are stages of development, versus states of consciousness.

I see it as this, that we can have an enlightenment experience, but that does not make us enlightened as in a permanent stage of growth. But I do believe we can in fact grow higher up that ladder of consciousness development, as it were, where our minds are permanently at that higher state of consciousness, as the general average-mode consciousness in a stage of development. In this sense, I am not enlightened, yet. However, I have definitely been, and am being transformed permanently beyond where I have been at in my average-mode consciousness, or stage of development prior to incorporating specific meditative practices into my life where you deliberately put yourself into the path of these states of consciousness (psychic, subtle, causal, nondual).

States of consciousness of the order of these transcendent types are peak experiences, not stages of growth which are an adaptation, an integration of them into a level of development.

I haven't watched this video below I just found, but the whole distinction between states and stages is from the work of the philosopher Ken Wilber, if you are familiar with him. I'm sure he'll explode this further from what I've touched on in this short 10 minute video. I would highly recommend anyone familiarizing themselves with his work:

[youtube]_OrTX1wZ2nw[/youtube]
States and Stages: states are free stages are earned - YouTube

 

[apophenia]

Thank you

What are frubals exactly? how do I give them ?

Top right corner of post box. A scales symbol.

If you click on it in a post you appreciate you give a frubal ( approval) and can also leave an accompanying message.

 

[Secret Chief]

Presumably comeon is enlightened. But now we are lost without that wisdom.