Who is God?

[Vile Atheist]

Baby Fish: "Momma, what is the sea? All my friends at school tell me about the sea, but I don't understand"

Momma Fish: "Well, baby, the sea is all around you and inside of you"

Baby Fish: (looking all around) "Where? I don't see any sea!"

Momma Fish: "You were born into the sea, and will die in the sea"

Baby Fish: (still looking) "Sigh...I guess there just is no such thing as the sea. Oh, well"

Nice try, but fish don't talk!

 

[mugendai]

He does have a name, His Hebrew name is יהוה
Which roughly translates to YHWH in English. It's unpronouncable but many pronounce it Yahweh or Jehova.

 

[godnotgod]

Nice try, but fish don't talk!

You're a fish, and you talk! You swim around in a sea of empty space gurgling psycho-babble all the time. See?...I mean...Sea?

Blubb....blubbb...blubbb....gurgle-pooh

 

[Thief]

With "I" out of the way, there is no possibility of being deluded. There is only pure, unadulterated reality.



Reality is not a doctrine that you can be swayed into believing. Reality is beyond both belief and non-belief. Beliefs and doctrines are models of reality; they are not reality itself.

To take up a position of belief or non-belief requires that you defend your position, and it is defense that eventually leads to offense. Your mind is now leaning to the right or to the left of reality, and no longer rooted in reality. Reality never requires you to defend it or offend in its name.

Therefore, I neither believe, nor not-believe.

Adopting a position of no-position, I am now free to SEE into the true nature of reality itself, uncolored and undistorted by doctrine and belief, defense and offense, good and bad, right or wrong.

You "won't be swayed": you continue to cling to a doctrine; a belief; a position. That is your problem. If you truly had faith, you would let go, rather than cling. You cling out of fear. It is only when you trust completely and let go that you float. Clinging will only cause you to drop like a rock to the bottom of the pond. Complete trust can only occur when your vision is clear; when you SEE, rather than THINK. Thinking will get you belief; seeing will get you reality.

"Oh, Lord, let not my gaze be too high nor too low, but fixed on that thin line of the horizon that separates Heaven from Earth"
Sufi saying

Too many incorrect assumptions on 'your' part.
"I" have true faith.
"I" am not clinging to 'doctrine'.
"I" am not afraid of what "I" believe.
"I" have 'seen' where "I" am going.
It's kinda like floating...and there is no horizon.
"I" don't have any sinking feeling.

Oh yeah....God is!
Who He is, isn't really the question...it's more like.... what is He?
That doesn't mean He lacks 'personality'...or humor

 

[godnotgod]

"I" have true faith.

If you did, there would be no need for belief.

"I" am not clinging to 'doctrine'.

You stated emphatically that "I believe"; belief requires a doctrine. You stated that you would "not be swayed". Swayed from what you cling to, which is doctrine. If you did not cling to a doctrine, there would be nothing to sway you from.

"I" am not afraid of what "I" believe.

That is not what I said: I said you cling to your belief out of fear. If you had true faith, as you claim, there would be no need for belief; you would let go of it because you trust, and the confirmation of your trust dissolves fear.

"I" have 'seen' where "I" am going.

Yeah? You had a sneak preview, eh? How many virgins will YOU be getting?

When you get to where you are going, what time will it be?

It's kinda like floating...and there is no horizon.
"I" don't have any sinking feeling.
Oh yeah....God is!

Your 'floating feeling' confirms that 'God is' for you? Now that is a leap of faith...or just a whole lot of wishful thinking stimulated by euphoria....or maybe just that God is...floating, that is.....uh....what DID you put in that pipe to smoke, anyway?

Uh...did you ever consider that the reason you don't see a horizon is because you are floating so high...pie in the sky?

Reminds me of the joke which the philosopher Hegel told, of God being a "gaseous vertebrate"

Who He is, isn't really the question...it's more like.... what is He?
That doesn't mean He lacks 'personality'...or humor

He? God is a He? There you go projecting your ego onto an anthropomorphic, patriarchal idol again!

 

[Zardoz]

He does have a name...

Yes, but we don't actually say it, nu?

Scroll back to post 21 for more info, if you didn't read all the replies.

Welcome to RF!

 

[godnotgod]

Friend Mystique,



Good question.
As had stated God is not *who* but *what*.
Awaiting someone to respond to that.

Love & rgds

Is "who" and "what" just another duality, that of the Subjective and the Objective? Taken separately, each has a seemingly different quality, don't they, almost as if they were opposing. The two makes us feel as if we must make a choice between the two. However, it must be remembered that the Ultimate Reality, the Infinite, God, etc, is always and forever One. The finite world IS the infinite, manifesting itself in temporary yet myriad forms; the changeless within the forever changing; the Supreme Identity itself dwelling humbly within the temporary carcass of a snail, within "a pair of ragged claws scuttling across the floors of silent seas." In short, the Miraculous dwelling casually within the Ordinary of everyday life. Ordinary Zen, you know, and the reason why we tend to overlook it, to always seek the Miraculous somewhere outside and beyond, in some other future imagined magical realm after death.

Oh, it could NEVER be found right under our very noses, now could it?

We have forgotten how to see.

We have split reality into the High and the Low; into the Supernatural and the Natural; into this and into that.

What actually happens when we see that the Subjective and the Objective are one and the same? Then we understand life in another dimension, wherein the one transforms the other, and vice-versa.

Man is in denial of his own divine nature. He has separated the Infinite from himself, and placed IT on a pedestal, far above and unreachable.

Holy of Holies.

Holy S**t for Holy People!

Having created The Holy, now he has unwittingly also created The UnHoly.

Now the Two Great Dragons, 'going round and 'round, each biting the tail of the other, must war on a Grand Apocalyptic Scale, the Heavenly Forces of Jesus Christ pitting themselves mercilessly against the Hellish Forces of Malevolent Evil, with Man's Soul hanging in the balance. :clap Bravo! What a Big Show! What fine actors, never letting on with those oh so finely-crafted poker faces!

Boy! Don't you know? This here is SERIOUS Business! Onward, Christian Soldiers!

This is drama on a grand scale of immense scope. Why, it is history in the making!

"All this world is but a play
Be thou the joyful player...

...The great ship, the ship of the world
Long time sailing
Mariners, mariners, gather your skills
Jesus and Hitler and Richard the Lion Heart
Three kings and Moses and Queen Cleopatra
The Cobbler, the maiden
The mender and the maker
The sickener and the twitcher
And the glad undertaker
The shepherd of willows
The harper and the archer
All sat down in one boat together....

Troubled voyage in calm weather." *

....and Buddha holds up one hand, palm outward, as if to say:

"Fear Not...

What you are witnessing, in spite of how real and horrific it all seems, is just

One Big Act!"

When God becomes too Subjective and Personal, you have a very human Jesus dying on some cross for man's transgressions.

When God becomes too Objective and Impersonal, he becomes ruthless and tyrannical, Yawheh ruthlessly murdering tens of thousands with a single stroke, or cold, ruthless, loveless and seemingly brutal reality without a God at all.

It is always a conflict between The unbending Law of the Patriarchal God vs. the soft, feminine loving and Playful side of God.

When they are together, we see the joyful Divine Essence within all things, unfolding from within, and always in this eternal Present Moment.

Yes, the Kingdom of God is at hand, and within, just as Jesus told us.

Most of us miss out on the gifts of the Incarnation, which have been given to us apriori, seeking them instead in some future time and place beyond death.

What a terrible waste!

God is as close as your next breath, your eye. In fact, God IS your next breath; IT is seeing itself.

Tas atvam asi...

Thou art that.

There is no self and other.

THIS.....is it!

Just this.

Nothing more...

Nothing less.

Simply Thus...

*excerpted from the song, "Maya", in "Wee Tam and The Big Huge", by The Incredible String Band

 

[Smoke]

Baby Fish: "Momma, what is the sea? The preacher fish is always talking about the sea, but I don't understand."

Momma Fish: "Well, baby, the sea is all around you and inside of you."

Baby Fish: "That's not what I asked you."

 

[Thief]

Is "who" and "what" just another duality, that of the Subjective and the Objective? Taken separately, each has a seemingly different quality, don't they, almost as if they were opposing. The two makes us feel as if we must make a choice between the two. However, it must be remembered that the Ultimate Reality, the Infinite, God, etc, is always and forever One. The finite world IS the infinite, manifesting itself in temporary yet myriad forms; the changeless within the forever changing; the Supreme Identity itself dwelling humbly within the temporary carcass of a snail, within "a pair of ragged claws scuttling across the floors of silent seas." In short, the Miraculous dwelling casually within the Ordinary of everyday life. Ordinary Zen, you know, and the reason why we tend to overlook it, to always seek the Miraculous somewhere outside and beyond, in some other future imagined magical realm after death.

Oh, it could NEVER be found right under our very noses, now could it?

We have forgotten how to see.

We have split reality into the High and the Low; into the Supernatural and the Natural; into this and into that.

What actually happens when we see that the Subjective and the Objective are one and the same? Then we understand life in another dimension, wherein the one transforms the other, and vice-versa.

Man is in denial of his own divine nature. He has separated the Infinite from himself, and placed IT on a pedestal, far above and unreachable.

Holy of Holies.

Holy S**t for Holy People!

Having created The Holy, now he has unwittingly also created The UnHoly.

Now the Two Great Dragons, 'going round and 'round, each biting the tail of the other, must war on a Grand Apocalyptic Scale, the Heavenly Forces of Jesus Christ pitting themselves mercilessly against the Hellish Forces of Malevolent Evil, with Man's Soul hanging in the balance. :clap Bravo! What a Big Show! What fine actors, never letting on with those oh so finely-crafted poker faces!

Boy! Don't you know? This here is SERIOUS Business! Onward, Christian Soldiers!

This is drama on a grand scale of immense scope. Why, it is history in the making!

"All this world is but a play
Be thou the joyful player...

...The great ship, the ship of the world
Long time sailing
Mariners, mariners, gather your skills
Jesus and Hitler and Richard the Lion Heart
Three kings and Moses and Queen Cleopatra
The Cobbler, the maiden
The mender and the maker
The sickener and the twitcher
And the glad undertaker
The shepherd of willows
The harper and the archer
All sat down in one boat together....

Troubled voyage in calm weather." *

....and Buddha holds up one hand, palm outward, as if to say:

"Fear Not...

What you are witnessing, in spite of how real and horrific it all seems, is just

One Big Act!"

When God becomes too Subjective and Personal, you have a very human Jesus dying on some cross for man's transgressions.

When God becomes too Objective and Impersonal, he becomes ruthless and tyrannical, Yawheh ruthlessly murdering tens of thousands with a single stroke, or cold, ruthless, loveless and seemingly brutal reality without a God at all.

It is always a conflict between The unbending Law of the Patriarchal God vs. the soft, feminine loving and Playful side of God.

When they are together, we see the joyful Divine Essence within all things, unfolding from within, and always in this eternal Present Moment.

Yes, the Kingdom of God is at hand, and within, just as Jesus told us.

Most of us miss out on the gifts of the Incarnation, which have been given to us apriori, seeking them instead in some future time and place beyond death.

What a terrible waste!

God is as close as your next breath, your eye. In fact, God IS your next breath; IT is seeing itself.

Tas atvam asi...

Thou art that.

There is no self and other.

THIS.....is it!

Just this.

Nothing more...

Nothing less.

Simply Thus...

*excerpted from the song, "Maya", in "Wee Tam and The Big Huge", by The Incredible String Band

"I" suppose 'your' responses will cease when 'you' no longer exist?
Oh that's right......''you" don't exist.

Perhaps 'you' haven't realized what 'you' are saying.
If 'you' truly believe in 'your' own doctrine...'you' have no choice...'you' have no response.
"YOU" are less than an orange.

 

[Vile Atheist]

But surely more than a grapefruit?

 

[godnotgod]

Baby Fish: "Momma, what is the sea? The preacher fish is always talking about the sea, but I don't understand."

Momma Fish: "Well, baby, the sea is all around you and inside of you."

Baby Fish: "That's not what I asked you."

Momma Fish: "I know, baby, but you need to understand that the sea being inside and outside of you is one of its characteristics that point to what the sea is, get it?"

Baby Fish: "Yes, but I still don't SEE anything"

Momma Fish: "No, baby. You cannot see the sea with your ordinary eyes. The sea is invisible to you. But it can be known with another kind of sight. Another name for the sea is the Tao. The great Tao is everywhere; it is silent, odorless, tasteless, and invisible. In order to see Tao, you must first quiet your restless, grasping mind."

Baby Fish: "I think... I am...beginning... to...see."

Momma Fish: "Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh"

 

[Quagmire]

I'm just wondering how fish get baptized.

 

[godnotgod]

"I" suppose 'your' responses will cease when 'you' no longer exist?
Oh that's right......''you" don't exist.

I neither exist, nor not-exist, and neither do you.

Perhaps 'you' haven't realized what 'you' are saying.
If 'you' truly believe in 'your' own doctrine...'you' have no choice...'you' have no response.

Which doctrine is that?

"YOU" are less than an orange.

You may be right, since I don't have the ability to taste like one.

 

[godnotgod]

I'm just wondering how fish get baptized.

They get fried.

 

[godnotgod]

But surely more than a grapefruit?

Nothing in the universe is greater or lesser than anything else.

 

[Vile Atheist]

Nothing in the universe is greater or lesser than anything else.

What about numbers?

 

[Thief]

Nothing in the universe is greater or lesser than anything else.

Bigger, faster, stronger, more intelligent and greatly experienced.
But "I" suppose 'you' don't believe in superlatives either.

So are 'you' greater than 'your' creator?

Oh that's right...'you' don't exist!

 

[godnotgod]

Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkis.

Everything. You always have had everything, but just did not realize it. It took nothingness to do that.

"Enlightenment is to realize that you are nothing. In realizing that you are nothing, you realize that you are everything"
Rinpoche
*****
"Thirty Spokes share the wheels hub;
It is the center hole that makes it useful.

Shape clay into a vessel;
It is the space within that makes it useful.

Cut doors and windows for a room;
It is the holes that make it useful.

Therefore, profit comes from what is there;
Usefulness from what is not there."
(Tao Te Ching, Ch. 11.)

 

[godnotgod]

Bigger, faster, stronger, more intelligent and greatly experienced.
But "I" suppose 'you' don't believe in superlatives either.

Clever, but "bigger, faster, stronger, more intelligent and greatly experienced" are characteristics wholly dependent upon those which are "smaller, slower, weaker, less intelligent and poorly experienced".

Lesser and greater are always relative.

So are 'you' greater than 'your' creator?

What 'creator'? I was never created.

Oh that's right...'you' don't exist!

You must love to nibble around the edges of things. You have yet to show me the "I" you continue to claim exists.

 

[godnotgod]

What about numbers?

Numbers are concepts.

One of anything in the universe is equal to millions of anything else. You are of the same substance as the stars.

All things, whatever their number, are always part of the One.