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Who is God?
- Thread starter enchanted_one1975
- Start date
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Hey!!!!post #99 is a philosophical ploy.
Apparently the poster does not know better.
When you take someone's posting and break it into line by line retorts, the flow of thought is broken.
It's an old trick. By breaking the flow, the argument only appears to be poor.
God is.
And the creation of Man is to form individual spirits.
This is done by flesh. The unique life you have, forms a unique individual.
When the clay stiffens, it fails. The spirit you become does not fail.
That you believe you dissipate into nothing doesn't mean that "I" will follow you into the ground.
Eternal darkness is physically real.
No form of light follows anyone into the grave.
No sunlight. no moonlight, no starlight..... no philosophical light.
No more 'enlightenment'.
It really is dark down there.
"I" am not going your way.
Apparently the poster does not know better.
When you take someone's posting and break it into line by line retorts, the flow of thought is broken.
It's an old trick. By breaking the flow, the argument only appears to be poor.
God is.
And the creation of Man is to form individual spirits.
This is done by flesh. The unique life you have, forms a unique individual.
When the clay stiffens, it fails. The spirit you become does not fail.
That you believe you dissipate into nothing doesn't mean that "I" will follow you into the ground.
Eternal darkness is physically real.
No form of light follows anyone into the grave.
No sunlight. no moonlight, no starlight..... no philosophical light.
No more 'enlightenment'.
It really is dark down there.
"I" am not going your way.
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godnotgod
Thou art That
???????????????
It is truly a pity that you think someone is trying to trick you. My insertions into your commentary are there only as a means of maintaining the flow, so as to cover each point as we go along. Are you paranoid?
Ah, dogma. Such sweet sound!
...yet more dogma!
...just believe, and ye shall be saved!
You continue to preoccupy your mind with failure and success. Don't you know that the one is completely dependent upon the other?:seesaw:
Everyone, including you, will go into the ground. There is no escape from death, but you don't need to linger there! And no one is asking you to follow them there, either!
Are you afraid of complete vaporization of your unique ego?
Tell me, quick: who is it that lives? who is it that dies?
Then turn on your eternal light.
You can come out now.
Don't worry: there is no "I" that goes anywhere at all. Just wake up and you will find that you have already arrived!
Besides, you cannot go anywhere until you first tell me where you are located. Have you found out yet where you are? Yoo! Hoo!
Can you answer the question?
Vile Atheist
Loud and Obnoxious
I'm God, so naturally at the KFC having Colonel Sanders feed me popcorn chicken.
godnotgod
Thou art That
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godnotgod
Thou art That
There is the "I" which takes note of the "I" that is "right in front of his keyboard", and saying: "I'm right here......etc." So there are TWO of you, right?
I see the self in all things, and all things in the self.
"I" is like the moon reflected in a pail of water. When the bottom falls out,
No more water:
No more moon in the water:
Emptiness in my hand!
Thief
Rogue Theologian
I suppose God is an illusion?
The topic is ...who is God?
(not whether or not He exists)
If we start from discussion if God exists, this will take forever....
And there are plenty of topic threads working such philosophy already.
As for your bottomless bucket argument....
Your argument has equal value.
The topic is ...who is God?
(not whether or not He exists)
If we start from discussion if God exists, this will take forever....
And there are plenty of topic threads working such philosophy already.
As for your bottomless bucket argument....
Your argument has equal value.
godnotgod
Thou art That
"Who God is" is totally dependent upon whether he exists or not. To ask who he is assumes his existence, which has not been established. Some of us here are trying to demonstrate that his existence is a product of man's conceptual thought, and that naming him follows his conceptualization as an anthropomorphic entity.
We can work on both at the same time. Whusshamatta? Pooping out already? We have just begun to scratch the surface.
So far, you have failed to engage me in discussion of the content of the argument I am making. You have skirted every single question I have posed to you, and when I answer your questions, all you can say is that I have no valid argument, but I have given example after example to support every single statement I have made.
In case you have lost track of the premise of my argument, it is that the "I" which man creates in his own image and likeness is projected onto an otherness he first calls "God', and then proceeds to name that God, as a means of making the unknown more approachable. Jesus is the human figure that makes that connection to the Christian God a physical, tangible one.
So 'who God is' is a function of man's conceptual thought, which is responsible for his creation.
If someone can demonstrate, via of valid argument, that any "God" exists outside of the parameters of conceptual thought, then I would like to hear that argument. As far as I can see, any idea or reference to God is purely conceptual. To simply assume his existence and then refer to him as if he did is nothing more than conjecture and belief.
godnotgod
Thou art That
"I" is a self-conscious activity. However, we are not always in a state of self-consciousness. There are lapses in which we forget to always refer to "I". It becomes an encumbrance to our experience. Sometimes we find ourselves just experiencing the moment without an experiencer, without an "I", but we fail to notice its absence because the "I" reasserts itself so quickly. It takes a lot of attention and concentration to notice the absence or presence of "I". When we apply this concentrated kind of attentiveness, we get a better picture of the true nature of "I", discovering that it is illusory, a total fabrication of the thinking mind. This is the twilight zone between the Third Level of Consciousness (Waking Sleep/Identification), and the Fourth Level (Self-Transcendence/Objective Awareness). With practice, we can sustain longer and longer periods of conscious awareness without any thought of an "I" involved. We then can see directly into the true nature of reality without the added baggage of a seeing agent called "I".
There is no "I" which sees;
There is only seeing.
That which sees without a see-er is your true nature.
There is no "I" which sees;
There is only seeing.
That which sees without a see-er is your true nature.
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Thief
Rogue Theologian
There are only three states of mind that can be demonstrated.
When you are awake, when you sleep, and when you dream.
Oh but...that's right....you've been watching Twilight Zone!
As long as you insist that 'you' and 'I' are illusions.....
'I' might as well be talking to an orange.
Oh that's right...'I' already said so.
When you are awake, when you sleep, and when you dream.
Oh but...that's right....you've been watching Twilight Zone!
As long as you insist that 'you' and 'I' are illusions.....
'I' might as well be talking to an orange.
Oh that's right...'I' already said so.
godnotgod
Thou art That
There is at least one more level of Wakefulness: when you KNOW that you are awake.
This is the Fourth Level, which can be demonstrated via of testing meditators who, when in this state, put out very large amounts of Alpha Brain Waves. Large amounts of Alpha Waves are associated with Higher Consciousness.
Other evidence shows up in the scientific fact that meditators also develop thicker cerebral cortexes as a result of long-term meditation.
In addition, it has been demonstrated, via of scientific study, that Tibetan monks are capable of controlling their body temperatures via of an altered state of consciousness to the extent that they are able to sleep outside in the middle of winter in the snow wearing nothing more than a sheet. Ordinary people (on the Third Level) would perish in such cold.
This Fourth Level (and all levels above this) can be verified via of one's own direct experience. This was one of the central messages of the Buddha, who told his followers to "go see for yourself". This is the huge difference between Christianity, for example, where the experience is focused onto a single Special Case in the form of Jesus, and Buddhism, where the Buddha is saying that Enlightenment is available in the Here and Now to all sentient beings.
The first requires belief, which cannot be verified, while the second requires the discarding of belief in exchange for one's own direct experience in which one realizes that oneself is the object of one's own seeking. All seeking, all becoming, come to an end as the "I" dissolves and the authentic self awakens and unfolds.
....and would you care to tell us exactly who this "I" is to which you refer, and where it dwells? "I" continues to claim that "I" exists, but is nowhere to be found! Perhaps "I" is nothing more than a reverberant echo of an echo of an echo.....that dwells in the Twilight Zone. Now, when you embark on your wonderful quest in search of your "I", can you tell us, please, who is it that is seeking? Hmmmmmm?
"That which you are seeking is what is causing you to seek"
Zen aphorism
....place in pipe and smoke for awhile.
Poof!:nightcraw:
godnotgod
Thou art That
Hello zenzero, and nice to hear from you...
Is the "stick" you are referring to a monk's staff, or the "s**t stick" commonly used as a metaphor for the Buddha?
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Thief
Rogue Theologian
Indeed!There is at least one more level of Wakefulness: when you KNOW that you are awake.
This is the Fourth Level, which can be demonstrated via of testing meditators who, when in this state, put out very large amounts of Alpha Brain Waves. Large amounts of Alpha Waves are associated with Higher Consciousness.
Other evidence shows up in the scientific fact that meditators also develop thicker cerebral cortexes as a result of long-term meditation.
In addition, it has been demonstrated, via of scientific study, that Tibetan monks are capable of controlling their body temperatures via of an altered state of consciousness to the extent that they are able to sleep outside in the middle of winter in the snow wearing nothing more than a sheet. Ordinary people (on the Third Level) would perish in such cold.
This Fourth Level (and all levels above this) can be verified via of one's own direct experience. This was one of the central messages of the Buddha, who told his followers to "go see for yourself". This is the huge difference between Christianity, for example, where the experience is focused onto a single Special Case in the form of Jesus, and Buddhism, where the Buddha is saying that Enlightenment is available in the Here and Now to all sentient beings.
The first requires belief, which cannot be verified, while the second requires the discarding of belief in exchange for one's own direct experience in which one realizes that oneself is the object of one's own seeking. All seeking, all becoming, come to an end as the "I" dissolves and the authentic self awakens and unfolds.
....and would you care to tell us exactly who this "I" is to which you refer, and where it dwells? "I" continues to claim that "I" exists, but is nowhere to be found! Perhaps "I" is nothing more than a reverberant echo of an echo of an echo.....that dwells in the Twilight Zone. Now, when you embark on your wonderful quest in search of your "I", can you tell us, please, who is it that is seeking? Hmmmmmm?
"That which you are seeking is what is causing you to seek"
Zen aphorism
....place in pipe and smoke for awhile.
Poof!:nightcraw:
There is a condition called pavor nocturnum.
It is an illness. The condition is a result of poor body chemistry that causes the person to dream while awake and responsive.
This condition is serious and debilitating.
Funny you should mention drugs....LSD produces a similar state of mind.
As for bodily control...that is no more than self discipline.
Some of our elite men in uniform can perform as you have described.
Your last post indicates you have given yourself to an illusion.
All things are illusionary to you.
I think you need help.
godnotgod
Thou art That
Hmmmmm.....sounds like the condition in which the majority of humanity now finds itself in: asleep while walking around in a dream, firmly convinced that they are awake!
"Thou hast nor youth nor age, but, as it were, an after-dinner sleep,
dreaming on both"
TS Elliot
Funny you should think so: I never mentioned any drugs whatsoever. "put in pipe and smoke" is a metaphor for deeply pondering some question that is posed.
The LSD experience is a spiritually illegal path and a sham. It comes nowhere close to authentic spiritual experience. The great guru of LSD, Timothy Leary, finally burned his brains out with it.
Oh, you are a clever one! Those who try to discredit Buddhists do so by saying that Buddhism is nothing more than mere 'self-improvement'; equivalent to having your hair and nails done at your local beauty salon.
No sir! It is not the same AT ALL! Skin begins to freeze at 28 degrees. The monks are wearing only cotton shawls in zero degree weather all night long raising their internal core temperatures via of meditation! This is a yogic practice known as Tummo, and no Westerner has been able to achieve what the monks can except for one case. The technique is kept a secret.
Cold weather training practiced by US soldiers is merely a matter of discipline, aclimation, and prevention. They cannot raise their internal core temps at will, as the monks can. They can only take measures to prevent it from dropping too far. They must don appropriate cold weather garb to prevent frostbite and hypothermia. There is no way any US soldier could survive all night wearing nothing but a cotton shawl at 15,000 feet in the Himalayas where temperatures drop to around 0 degrees!
Here is a pix of your soldier in training in Alaska:
See here: Powered by Google Docs
and here is your Buddhist monk meditating in the snow:
"Stories and eyewitness accounts abound of yogi practitioners being able to generate sufficient heat to dry wet sheets draped around their naked bodies while sitting outside in the freezing cold, not just once, but multiple times."
Tummo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Excuse me? I stated that the [the illusion of] "I" dissolves while the authentic self awakens and unfolds [to True Reality]. Is that saying that all things are illusory?
So...have you gotten ahold of "I" yet? When you do, tell him his days are numbered, and that he is nothing more than an ego dragging around a corpse.:biglaugh:
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Thief
Rogue Theologian
Well if the concept of "I" eludes you....and it does....you're non-acceptance is clear...then all else is illusionary.
And yes...put it your pipe and smoke it ....is an expression of drug use.
Your choice of metaphor not mine.
As for physical disciplines...."I" have had a taste of such things.
My sensei liked to work out in the cold.
"I" have also watched Navy Seal documentaries...good stuff!!!!!
But none of your discussion (please reiterate if you care to)
approaches.....who is God?
If you don't believe just say so.
"I" believe.....and won't be swayed.
And yes...put it your pipe and smoke it ....is an expression of drug use.
Your choice of metaphor not mine.
As for physical disciplines...."I" have had a taste of such things.
My sensei liked to work out in the cold.
"I" have also watched Navy Seal documentaries...good stuff!!!!!
But none of your discussion (please reiterate if you care to)
approaches.....who is God?
If you don't believe just say so.
"I" believe.....and won't be swayed.
Vile Atheist
Loud and Obnoxious
12 pages and God's identity is still a mystery?
godnotgod
Thou art That
Perhaps "God's Identity" should remain strictly anonymous, since the moment you identify, name, classify, compartmentalize, encapsulate, dissect, analyze, conceptualize, predict, or otherwise think you know God, then God becomes dead.
For God to remain a living, breathing God, IT must remain nameless, and a total mystery to the grasping mind. The path to God is never through knowledge, but via not-knowing, because the Infinite is odorless, tasteless, invisible, and silent, and therefore cannot be accessed via the senses, nor via of the thinking, conceptualizing mind. All of these attempts must come to rest, until one reaches the point where one knows absolutely nothing. The mind must be emptied, even of any idea of mind itself.
It is then, and ONLY then, that another kind of mind comes into play. Then, there is the chance that you may see God. You will realize that God has always been with you. It has never left. Only you have left. But make God an object of your knowing, and you will once again lose your vision. There is no self or other. Realization of divine union is the goal of all religious endeavor.
Baby Fish: "Momma, what is the sea? All my friends at school tell me about the sea, but I don't understand"
Momma Fish: "Well, baby, the sea is all around you and inside of you"
Baby Fish: (looking all around) "Where? I don't see any sea!"
Momma Fish: "You were born into the sea, and will die in the sea"
Baby Fish: (still looking) "Sigh...I guess there just is no such thing as the sea. Oh, well"
godnotgod
Thou art That
With "I" out of the way, there is no possibility of being deluded. There is only pure, unadulterated reality.
Reality is not a doctrine that you can be swayed into believing. Reality is beyond both belief and non-belief. Beliefs and doctrines are models of reality; they are not reality itself.
To take up a position of belief or non-belief requires that you defend your position, and it is defense that eventually leads to offense. Your mind is now leaning to the right or to the left of reality, and no longer rooted in reality. Reality never requires you to defend it or offend in its name.
Therefore, I neither believe, nor not-believe.
Adopting a position of no-position, I am now free to SEE into the true nature of reality itself, uncolored and undistorted by doctrine and belief, defense and offense, good and bad, right or wrong.
You "won't be swayed": you continue to cling to a doctrine; a belief; a position. That is your problem. If you truly had faith, you would let go, rather than cling. You cling out of fear. It is only when you trust completely and let go that you float. Clinging will only cause you to drop like a rock to the bottom of the pond. Complete trust can only occur when your vision is clear; when you SEE, rather than THINK. Thinking will get you belief; seeing will get you reality.
"Oh, Lord, let not my gaze be too high nor too low, but fixed on that thin line of the horizon that separates Heaven from Earth"
Sufi saying