Who IS "The Only TRUE God"- as Jesus put it?

[InvestigateTruth]

Jesus is the Son of God.

Jesus is son of God, but not the only one:

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God,

even to them that believe on his name" John 1:13

​

 

[sojourner]

Jesus is son of God, but not the only one:

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God,

even to them that believe on his name" John 1:13

​

Sooo... thennn...
In what way is Jesus special from us, deserving of Lordship?

 

[sojourner]

when the image of the Sun is reflected in mirror, then when you look at the mirror, you see the Sun and you can say that is the Sun, even though it's mirror.
For the image of the Sun to appear in the mirror, the Sun doesn't physically move to the mirror, but only it's image is reflected.

Same concept of the Sun and Mirrors is applied to all Manifestations of God, including but not limited to Jesus!
Jesus is the Mirror!

But the Trinity argues that Jesus is more than an image. Jesus is God.

 

[sojourner]

But the 'administering a sacrament' must be part of the Bible if it’s really part of the original 'administering a sacrament'.
I don’t believe that confession is part of the original 'administering a sacrament' that Jesus intended because, again, confession to the priest results in the abasement and humility of the person.
Anyways, When someone can directly ask forgiveness directly to God, why would he go to the priest?

But wait! You just offered a quotation of teaching that was not from the Bible. How can you do that, if something "must be part of the Bible?" Either teaching must be "part of the Bible," or it may not. You can't have it both ways.

However, lucky for you, confession is "part of the Bible." The Bible is full of examples of Jesus forgiving sin. That's what the sacrament of penance is all about: Forgiveness of sin.

 

[Midnight Pete]

But the 'administering a sacrament' must be part of the Bible if it’s really part of the original 'administering a sacrament'.
I don’t believe that confession is part of the original 'administering a sacrament' that Jesus intended because, again, confession to the priest results in the abasement and humility of the person.
Anyways, When someone can directly ask forgiveness directly to God, why would he go to the priest?

Some people prefer that. Catholics, mainly.

 

[smokydot]

Does it?

Uh huh : hamster : uh huh. . .yeah, man!

This was responded to in post #580. Address it.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Sooo... thennn...
In what way is Jesus special from us, deserving of Lordship?

Jesus is special because He was one of the Manifestations of God.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

But the Trinity argues that Jesus is more than an image. Jesus is God.

But the argument must be logical.
He was a perfect image of God who had all the attributes of God manifested in Him. But not the Essence of God.


I offer this quote:

"The Divine Reality, which is purified and sanctified from the understanding of human beings and which can never be imagined by the people of wisdom and of intelligence, is exempt from all conception. That Lordly Reality admits of no division; for division and multiplicity are properties of creatures which are contingent existences, and not accidents which happen to the self-existent. ​

The Divine Reality is sanctified from singleness, then how much more from plurality. The descent of that Lordly Reality into conditions and degrees would be equivalent to imperfection and contrary to perfection, and is, therefore, absolutely impossible. It perpetually has been, and is, in the exaltation of holiness and sanctity. All that is mentioned of the Manifestations and Dawning-places of God signifies the divine reflection, and not a descent into the conditions of existence." Some Answered Questions - Abdul'baha

 

[InvestigateTruth]

But wait! You just offered a quotation of teaching that was not from the Bible. How can you do that, if something "must be part of the Bible?" Either teaching must be "part of the Bible," or it may not. You can't have it both ways.

Well, as long as we are discussing about laws of Christianity, then must they not be part of the Bible to be valid?

The quotation was not directly from the Bible, but from Baha'u'llah who is another Manifestation of God exactly as Jesus, but He came for this age.

However, lucky for you, confession is "part of the Bible." The Bible is full of examples of Jesus forgiving sin. That's what the sacrament of penance is all about: Forgiveness of sin.

Yes, Jesus forgave sin. But not the priests!

 

[sojourner]

Uh huh : hamster : uh huh. . .yeah, man!

This was responded to in post #580. Address it.

I don't buy it. I'd have to see proof that one Hebrew word addresses both situations, and then see proof that that one word is there for a reason, and not just because of the limitations of the language.

 

[sojourner]

Jesus is special because He was one of the Manifestations of God.

Those other "manifestations" are not mentioned, either in the texts, or in the Tradition. Therefore, they are not cogent to your argument with regard to the Trinity.

 

[sojourner]

He was a perfect image of God who had all the attributes of God manifested in Him. But not the Essence of God.

Not according to the doctrine of the Trinity.

I offer this quote:

"The Divine Reality, which is purified and sanctified from the understanding of human beings and which can never be imagined by the people of wisdom and of intelligence, is exempt from all conception. That Lordly Reality admits of no division; for division and multiplicity are properties of creatures which are contingent existences, and not accidents which happen to the self-existent. ​

The Divine Reality is sanctified from singleness, then how much more from plurality. The descent of that Lordly Reality into conditions and degrees would be equivalent to imperfection and contrary to perfection, and is, therefore, absolutely impossible. It perpetually has been, and is, in the exaltation of holiness and sanctity. All that is mentioned of the Manifestations and Dawning-places of God signifies the divine reflection, and not a descent into the conditions of existence." Some Answered Questions - Abdul'baha

Again, this quote doesn't speak to the argument, because it is part of neither the texts nor the Tradition.

 

[smokydot]

Incorrect. Leaven is not the same thing as the yeast we have today.

Regarding leaven being poisonous, do you have a source for that?
What is the difference between leaven and yeast? Of what is leaven composed?

People didn't get leaven at the Piggly Wiggly.
Well, the parable isn't really talking about the Holy Spirit.

You indicated otherwise in post #537.

It's talking about what God's kingdom is like. The point of the parable is that God became corrupt (since mortality is corrupt when compared to Divinity) for us, and the spread of the kingdom depends upon that act.

But Jesus is describing the kingdom there, he is not describing God.

Don't you see, the parable is one of a couplet, and both symbolize the same characteristic of the kingdom of God--its growth (Lk 13:18-21).

The first symbolizes the external growth of the kingdom: though the kingdom will seem to have an insignificant beginning, like the huge tree produced by the small mustard seed, it will eventually spread throughout the world.**

The second symbolizes the internal growth of the kingdom: the powerful influence of God's kingdom (the Holy Spirit) permeates one's whole life from the inside, just as a small amount of yeast permeates the whole lump from the inside.
It is hidden, like the leaven, quietly making its influence felt, without force or violence, until one day it will come out into the open, to be seen by all.
This is particularly relevant to those who thought the Messiah would overthrow the secular government.

There are some manifest problems with your interpretation. The parable clearly links the kingdom to the leaven and to the mustard seed.
1) Your interpretation of leaven makes the parable link the kingdom to corruption and uncleannes.

2) In order to make your linkage fit, you have to do some wrestling with its clear language (God became corrupt). But it's not about God. . .and it's not that abstruse.

3) Your interpretation sheds no real light on the nature of the kingdom--its hidden, quiet, non-violent influence from within, correcting the false messianic hopes of the time.
__________

**Ps 104:16-17; Eze 17:22-23, 31-36; 1 Kgs 17:6

 

[smokydot]

Well I think forgiveness of sin is hardly a qualification for being divine. I mean haven't you forgiven someone who has done something wrong to you? Also all prophets were divine because their metaphysical abilities originated from divine providence.

God is the only one who can wipe out the just punishment due (debt) for sin; i.e., forgive (cancel the debt).

 

[smokydot]

Sooo...
You're arguing with me anyway. Just like you said you weren't going to quote scripture and then did anyway. And just like you said you were finished sparring with me ... and now here you are.

Let me make this very easy for you:
1) God became Incarnate
2) Jesus is God Incarnate
3) Jesus died
4) Death is corruption

Mk?

Jesus the human died. The divine Son of God did not die.

Nor was Jesus' life taken from him by the crucifixion (Jn 10:17-18, 19:30). . .he yielded it himself, he lay it down of his own accord, corruption did not overtake him, he was not subject to corruption.
Nor did his body experience corruption in the grave.

Jesus is not personally linked to corruption and uncleanness.
The parable of the leaven does not personally link Jesus to corruption and uncleanness. See post #613.

There is some serious contra-Biblical stuff being alleged here regarding the parable of the leaven.

The parable of the leaven does not link God to corruption and uncleanness.

 

[smokydot]

when the image of the Sun is reflected in mirror, then when you look at the mirror, you see the Sun and you can say that is the Sun, even though it's mirror.
For the image of the Sun to appear in the mirror, the Sun doesn't physically move to the mirror, but only it's image is reflected.

Same concept of the Sun and Mirrors is applied to all Manifestations of God, including but not limited to Jesus!
Jesus is the Mirror!

That's not Biblical.

 

[logician]

Any religion that claims to be the one true way, isn't.

 

[thedope]

The idea of trinity is a remnant of an ancient esoteric idea describing a "ray of creation" that proceeds thought, word, and deed and describes creator god as process. In the beginning was the word and the word was with god and the word was god.

 

[Firstborner]

I did not bother reading through everything...but I read enough to see that the original question was not being answered. The question: Did Jesus have a God? is answered in the affirmative. He cried out when upon the cross, "My God, My God, why have YOU forsaken me?"

 

[thedope]

I did not bother reading through everything...but I read enough to see that the original question was not being answered. The question: Did Jesus have a God? is answered in the affirmative. He cried out when upon the cross, "My God, My God, why have YOU forsaken me?"

The question was answered many times over the course of the thread. You read enough only to come to the conclusion you did, however your quote is one example supporting the correct answer.