who or what created god

[Me Myself]

The universe is not eternal.

It has a start which is around 13 billion years ago

Anything which has a start is by definition not eternal

Only the "Cause" for bringing the universe into existence is Eternal

actualy, I think it is known energy of our that has a start then.

There is no reason to believe that energy wasn´t in some other place before that. Multiverse could explain an infinite multiversal "space" with finite universes.

If we defined the universe as the space before the big bang, then it could be eternal, specially if the energy actually existed before in a form that had been bound by different rules that the ones we know.

You claim to be certain of things you could not posibly be certain of, at least for the affairs of rational public consensus.

 

[ratikala]

dear payak ,

believers always claim there must be a god, what else could have created all things.
what then created god?

And why play faith based games rather then just showing him or herself.

god plays no games , he is ever present , it is simply that we are too blind to see .

If god is so intelligent, surely all religions would be accepted by him as he would understand our ignorance in following the wrong one and judge us on our behaviour, not our choice of worship.

he is beyond and above our comprehension of inteligence ,

all true religions are accepted by him , in this way he understands our ignorance and accepts us however we understand to approach him , such is his mercy .

If he is so choosy about what we follow that would indicate he has a large ego that needs worshiping to satisfy him, further indicating he is imperfect.

If there is a god who kwows all it would be foolish to think we can begin to understand him, behave in a manner that never hurts or effects others and surely he should be pleased.

If we faulter common sense should tell mankind that a god of such wisdom should understand we cannot help it as we are ignorant.

we are the passmasters of choosines and the possesors of egos , he is the ever merciful .the eternal the unborn and the un ending .

 

[connermt]

believers always claim there must be a god, what else could have created all things.
what then created god?

And why play faith based games rather then just showing him or herself.

If god is so intelligent, surely all religions would be accepted by him as he would understand our ignorance in following the wrong one and judge us on our behaviour, not our choice of worship.

If he is so choosy about what we follow that would indicate he has a large ego that needs worshiping to satisfy him, further indicating he is imperfect.

If there is a god who kwows all it would be foolish to think we can begin to understand him, behave in a manner that never hurts or effects others and surely he should be pleased.

If we faulter common sense should tell mankind that a god of such wisdom should understand we cannot help it as we are ignorant.

People create their own gods - gods of all types, colors, physicalities, etc. I have seen no evidence that any god created anything. I've seen all sorts of evidence showing mankind has created numerous gods - including the christian one.

 

[outhouse]

I thought "el" was a hebrew word for God? hence the names nathani-el, jezeb-el, dani-el Isra-el etc.

I didn't realise he was God's father,but I had heard God had a wife. I am surprised God had the will to go out and create a universe after marriade, I am surprised he wasn't given an endless list of trivial tasks to do first.

LOL ya im sure he had to sneak out at times.

if your ever curious, wiki El, wiki Yahweh, wiki Elohim, wiki El Shaddai, wiki El Elyon. wiki Shasu for the best origins of Yahweh.

when wiki is no protesting lol

 

[outhouse]

Outhouse etymology is thin gruel. Alternatively, there are some rather good texts on the evolution of Yahwism.

Biased views with baseless sarcasm.


To know Yahweh, one must know El. Follow El's evolution if you want the truth of Yahweh.

El predates Yahweh.

 

[Me Myself]

god plays no games

but we know better than that

 

[The Sum of Awe]

The universe is not eternal.

It has a start which is around 13 billion years ago

Anything which has a start is by definition not eternal

Only the "Cause" for bringing the universe into existence is Eternal

The universe didn't really "start" around 13 billion years ago, more like began doing something, being that scientific theories state it always existed in a singularity or came of energy converting into mass.

 

[payak]

Hi cordoba
Its fair enough what u explained
but,,,,,I feel a huge impolitess and misrespect from payak toward god
He uses a very bad language in a bad way
at least our brothers (christians or jews) i mean abrahamic religions many of them show love and respect and faith for god(even if we have differences)
but here some people are not trying to understand or to ask!!!
they......they show their emptiness trying to catch atention
They ..... Just dont deserve any comment

i am just asking questions to further understand your religions, nothing disrespectful about that if you comfortable in your religion it will not bother you.

you say i am trying to catch attention, don't assume anything it's foolish as you don't know my mind, just answer the thread or move on.

this thread is not an attack on anyone's religion unless your walking around with your guard up, but where i come from it's wise to question things not just blindly agree.

 

[McBell]

OK, to be "intellectually honest" all what you have to do is read to find out whether the Words of God make sense or not

He asks you to use your reason, and by reading His Guidance there are 2 possibilities:

1- Either you are not convinced, and in that case you have been "intellectually honest" because you searched whether this path is the Truth or not

2- The second possibility is that you are convinced, and in that case you have found the right path

Makes sense?

Does this apply to ALL the words that are claimed to be gods?

 

[Gharib]

believers always claim there must be a god, what else could have created all things.
what then created god?

And why play faith based games rather then just showing him or herself.

If god is so intelligent, surely all religions would be accepted by him as he would understand our ignorance in following the wrong one and judge us on our behaviour, not our choice of worship.

If he is so choosy about what we follow that would indicate he has a large ego that needs worshiping to satisfy him, further indicating he is imperfect.

If there is a god who kwows all it would be foolish to think we can begin to understand him, behave in a manner that never hurts or effects others and surely he should be pleased.

If we faulter common sense should tell mankind that a god of such wisdom should understand we cannot help it as we are ignorant.

if you don't believe that God exists or that those who believe in him are right, then why ask 'Who Created God' if he doesn't exist?

 

[Me Myself]

if you don't believe that God exists or that those who believe in him are right, then why ask 'Who Created God' if he doesn't exist?

To understand better other people and religion? Isn´t that what he said that in the OP.

 

[payak]

i am not sure if god exists or not, seeing is believing right.
and i dont believe your religions wrong, could well be right, could be wrong, i am just a man who has not seen god so i cannot say.

 

[Gharib]

i am not sure if god exists or not, seeing is believing right.
and i dont believe your religions wrong, could well be right, could be wrong, i am just a man who has not seen god so i cannot say.

seeing is definitely not believing, this is my reply to you on the other thread:

so it's foolish to believe in something you haven't seen, but it's not foolish to say that something you haven't seen doesn't exist or that it's existence may be possible even though you haven't seen it?

yeah that makes a lot of sense, just go through my post once again.

you didn't see your parents have intercourse either when they had you, but you believe they had intercourse in order to have you. (don't mean to be rude by that statement, the same applies to me and everyone else)

so it's not about seeing, it's about logic. so here's a question, is it logical to say that things can pop into existence without something prior to it creating it? why didn't any of us pop into existence without having gone through the birth process?

 

[Gharib]

To understand better other people and religion? Isn´t that what he said that in the OP.

where did he say that?

 

[Daviso452]

so it's not about seeing, it's about logic. so here's a question, is it logical to say that things can pop into existence without something prior to it creating it? why didn't any of us pop into existence without having gone through the birth process?

We do not know if it is illogical. We do not know what the universe was like prior to the big bang. You are allowed to make speculations, but since the laws of physics broke down while the universe was in a singularity (which is the only thing we know prior to the big bang), we have no idea what could happen. Perhaps there was some force at work which we cannot explain. Perhaps it is god. Perhaps it is something different entirely.

Bottom line, you cannot use logic to understand something no one has an understanding of. To be alive requires a process we have mapped out and know of, so that you are allowed to use logic for. But the events prior to the big bang are something we know nothing of and have nothing to make logical statements about.

Just because we do not know, does not mean you can say God did it.

 

[payak]

i say maybe he did maybe he did not, as its beyond my understanding

 

[Daviso452]

i say maybe he did maybe he did not, as its beyond my understanding

to what are you referring?

 

[Gharib]

We do not know if it is illogical. We do not know what the universe was like prior to the big bang. You are allowed to make speculations, but since the laws of physics broke down while the universe was in a singularity (which is the only thing we know prior to the big bang), we have no idea what could happen. Perhaps there was some force at work which we cannot explain. Perhaps it is god. Perhaps it is something different entirely.

Bottom line, you cannot use logic to understand something no one has an understanding of. To be alive requires a process we have mapped out and know of, so that you are allowed to use logic for. But the events prior to the big bang are something we know nothing of and have nothing to make logical statements about.

Just because we do not know, does not mean you can say God did it.

if i said that 1400 years ago Muhammed peace be upon him received a revelation that says the Universe is Expanding, wouldn't that mean God created the universe and that he knows how it works? logic is there, and the information is there, however, your lack of information and knowledge doesn't make you right and me wrong.

 

[Gharib]

to what are you referring?

i have no clue either.

 

[payak]

sorry i was refering to creation