who or what created god

[waitasec]

Too much skepticism can be counter-productive

My only advise for anyone searching for the truth in an objective way is to Read first God's final message to us, reflect, then reach an objective conclusion, whether convinced or not convinced

At the end of the day it's an individual free choice

But let it be an informed choice ...

the premise of ANY book CLAIMING to be gods word can only be approached subjectively...

 

[The Sum of Awe]

This is God's description in the Qur'an of what happened at the start of the universe:

{Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?} (21:30)

Well the first time you were talking about the scientific theory of how life began... It seems God only made the earth and heaven, what about the other billion of galaxies that contain billions of solar systems which usually contain a few planets?

 

[Daviso452]

God is The First and He is The Last, Waitasec

That is how He describes Himself in The Qur'an, His "letter" to each one of us

Only He is Eternal

Everything else has a start and therefore has a cause which precedes it

Only an Eternal God would not have anything else that precedes Him

And He urges us in The Qur'an to read, think, reflect and use our intellect ...

Unless the Qur'an is wrong. Which most people think it is.

How do you know that the universe is not eternal? And before you say it: The universe DID NOT BEGIN 13 billion years ago. That was when the event known as the "big bang" happened. Prior to that, NO PERSON ON THIS PLANET KNOWS what the universe was like, which means NO ONE can say either way.

You may be right, and you may be wrong. But you cannot state it as fact.

 

[Gharib]

Unless the Qur'an is wrong. Which most people think it is.

How do you know that the universe is not eternal? And before you say it: The universe DID NOT BEGIN 13 billion years ago. That was when the event known as the "big bang" happened. Prior to that, NO PERSON ON THIS PLANET KNOWS what the universe was like, which means NO ONE can say either way.

You may be right, and you may be wrong. But you cannot state it as fact.

brother Cordoba will give you a better reply but did you forget about the verse that says the Universe is expanding? there are many other verses that speak about things which could not be known except to conclude that they are from God.

you guys ask for evidence, scientific evidence, and then when it is presented you say it was a long shot prediction which just happened to be correct. the reason you say that is because it just so happens that the verse is correct and really is from God.

 

[McBell]

brother Cordoba will give you a better reply but did you forget about the verse that says the Universe is expanding? there are many other verses that speak about things which could not be known except to conclude that they are from God.

you guys ask for evidence, scientific evidence, and then when it is presented you say it was a long shot prediction which just happened to be correct. the reason you say that is because it just so happens that the verse is correct and really is from God.

Forer Effect.

Theists have been using it for eons.

 

[Gharib]

Forer Effect.

Theists have been using it for eons.

i don't get it?

 

[outhouse]

i don't get it?

use google my brother. it works

 

[Gharib]

use google my brother. it works

i did i just don't understand what i means, english is my second language, sometimes although something is quite easy to understand i just don't get it.

i got 2 meanings, either mestemia is saying that i want others to accept what i want making my statement true, or he says everyone is looking at the same thing differently. thats all i understood, i'm not playing the dumb card.

 

[waitasec]

brother Cordoba will give you a better reply but did you forget about the verse that says the Universe is expanding? there are many other verses that speak about things which could not be known except to conclude that they are from God.

you guys ask for evidence, scientific evidence, and then when it is presented you say it was a long shot prediction which just happened to be correct. the reason you say that is because it just so happens that the verse is correct and really is from God.

there is no scientific evidence god exists
what i want to know is this...

where are the verses that mentions the micro world...hmmm?
you know the stuff that really effects our lives here on earth more directly
how the human body works...
there isn't any mention of how to come up with a vaccine...

or what about hygiene...

“...But if you are ill or on a journey or any of you comes from answering the call of nature, or you have been in contact with women (i.e. sexual intercourse) and you find no water, then perform Tayammum with clean earth and rub therewith your faces and hands. God does not want to place you in difficulty, but He wants to purify you, and to complete His Favour on you that you may be thankful.” (Quran 5:6)

where is the disinfectant? no mention of it here...only water...no mention of the temperature just.... tayammumdry... gives new meaning to dry cleaning
germs can still live in water...and camels crap in the sand....but i guess thats not important...whats important is what we got right so lets just focus on that instead...

 

[Gharib]

there is no scientific evidence god exists
what i want to know is this...

where are the verses that mentions the micro world...hmmm?
you know the stuff that really effects our lives here on earth more directly
how the human body works...
there isn't any mention of how to come up with a vaccine...

or what about hygiene...

“...But if you are ill or on a journey or any of you comes from answering the call of nature, or you have been in contact with women (i.e. sexual intercourse) and you find no water, then perform Tayammum with clean earth and rub therewith your faces and hands. God does not want to place you in difficulty, but He wants to purify you, and to complete His Favour on you that you may be thankful.” (Quran 5:6)

where is the disinfectant? no mention of it here...only water...no mention of the temperature just.... tayammumdry... gives new meaning to dry cleaning
germs can still live in water...and camels crap in the sand....but i guess thats not important...whats important is what we got right so lets just focus on that instead...

i'm sorry you have not understood my post. however, even if i was to explain in detail what you have asked, you would still be in denial and reject what i would say. just like the verse about the expanding universe is rejected and you come up with more questions so as to avoid accepting what islam says.

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

The Higgs however all jokes aside but am inclined to interpret "god" for want of a better word as the laws and principles that created the universe and if the universe created itself out of just a quantum fluctuation then the universe is God. Not the kind of conscious sentient God many believers (or disbelievers for that matter) have in mind but a God under that definition none the less. So if the universe and the God are synonymous and the universe created itself then God created himself too. So God created God.

 

[waitasec]

i'm sorry you have not understood my post. however, even if i was to explain in detail what you have asked, you would still be in denial and reject what i would say.

how can i deny something that doesn't exist?

just like the verse about the expanding universe is rejected and you come up with more questions so as to avoid accepting what islam says.

you rejected a truth i brought to your attention.

the ignorance of the micro world....

 

[Gharib]

how can i deny something that doesn't exist?




you rejected a truth i brought to your attention.

the ignorance of the micro world....

see what i meant. you ask for proof only to find out once it is presented that you had already made up your mind there is no such thing as a God.

thanks for proving my point. it's unfortunate, but i can't force my beliefs on you.

 

[waitasec]

see what i meant. you ask for proof only to find out once it is presented that you had already made up your mind there is no such thing as a God.

thanks for proving my point. it's unfortunate, but i can't force my beliefs on you.

you didn't show me proof....you showed me a truth but that doesn't prove god exists it just proves who ever wrote those words were either really knowledgeable or just make an arbitrary statement...
plato beat your silly book by 7 centuries...
Plato
so no proof of anything.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Bet that Qu'ran verse that the universe was expanding was saying God is continuing creating things or possibly was symbolic for something...

 

[Me Myself]

Who or what created god?

I guess buddha would say:

"nothing"

 

[Daviso452]

i'm sorry you have not understood my post. however, even if i was to explain in detail what you have asked, you would still be in denial and reject what i would say. just like the verse about the expanding universe is rejected and you come up with more questions so as to avoid accepting what islam says.

The forer effect means that you say something that applies to many things, but you tell people it is specific for you, making yourself seem special.

I do not know the verse myself, so please tell me where it is. However, it doesn't really matter. Is it not possible that it was a total guess? Or perhaps they did get it from a special source; could it not have been aliens?

Let me ask you something; which do you think is more believable? Aliens or God?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I do not know the verse myself, so please tell me where it is. However, it doesn't really matter. Is it not possible that it was a total guess? Or perhaps they did get it from a special source; could it not have been aliens?

As I said, perhaps it didn't literally mean the universe was expanding, or else it meant God kept expanding on it (making new things) or something else, it could've meant many things.

 

[Gharib]

The forer effect means that you say something that applies to many things, but you tell people it is specific for you, making yourself seem special.

sorry i don't get it. what else does it apply to?

I do not know the verse myself, so please tell me where it is. However, it doesn't really matter. Is it not possible that it was a total guess? Or perhaps they did get it from a special source; could it not have been aliens?

"We have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it " (Surah 51:47).

Let me ask you something; which do you think is more believable? Aliens or God?

God. if anyone wishes to debate this i'd be happy.

 

[McBell]

i'm sorry you have not understood my post. however, even if i was to explain in detail what you have asked, you would still be in denial and reject what i would say. just like the verse about the expanding universe is rejected and you come up with more questions so as to avoid accepting what islam says.

:biglaugh: