Who Or What Is Israel?

[rosends]

Atheism and Apostasy is Idolatry because Worshipping Other Elohim/Gods.

No, according to Jewish law, they are not the same.

The point Being made is that Atheists and Apostates do Not Exist in Israel because they are put to Death. Therefore, no such thing as an Atheist Jew and Apostate Jew Living in Israel as Elohim/God Commanded in Torah.

Not actually true. Not only is there no current Jewish court to mete out a death penalty, and not only is the system of Jewish jurisprudence so strict so as to almost totally obviate death penalties, but one can have a lack of internal belief and still follow the laws and practice the rituals, and not be liable for a death penalty.

The Truth is that none of the practitioners of Judaism are Really keeping the Law of Moses, otherwise Atheists and Apostates would be put to death.

Not true -- the current situation and the details of the Jewish legal system make this assumption wrong.

 

[Aupmanyav]

There is Good Power and there is Evil Power. Elohim/God is Good Power and Evil Power.

Ah, now I understand (or have started to understand). Your El/God is a composite of God and Satan.

 

[dybmh]

Christianity, Islam and Judaism are Left-Hand Path Religions for Elohim's/God's Earthly Kingdom.

No.... We are not Left-Hand-Paths. Judiasm is devotional to a law-giving-diety that set up a justice system to establish order. Judaism perscribes conforming to that order and justice system which is established. That is the opposite of a Left-Hand-Path as it is generally understood. Our deity is both just and merciful simultaneously, which is one of the reasons we love it with all our hearts and all our souls and each and every one of our attributes.

I Am Christian Gnostic with Totally Different perspective from @dybmh

Correct. You admitted that Satan is your god. You are seeking, as you said "power, power, power". That is a totally different perspective.

Christians Become Israelites through Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ

Nope. That's against the law of The Lord God, The Most High.

Leviticus 19:19​

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את־חקתי תשמרו בהמתך לא־תרביע כלאים שדך לא־תזרע כלאים ובגד כלאים שעטנז לא יעלה עליך׃​

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You shall keep my statutes. You shall not let your cattle breed with a different kind; you shall not sow your field with mixed seed; nor shall a garment mixed of linen and woollen come upon you.​

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Deut 22:9​

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לא־תזרע כרמך כלאים פן־תקדש המלאה הזרע אשר תזרע ותבואת הכרם׃​

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You shall not sow your vineyard with different seeds; lest the fruit of your seed which you have sown, and the fruit of your vineyard, be defiled.​

Let me guess, this comes from your epistels, doesn't it? I told you already, that author, whomever they are, is corrupt. They are also power-seekers. It's a real problem.

Therefore, the Elohim/God you believe is Not Omni. Given that you Believe that Elohim/God cannot be Evil you have placed Limitations on Elohim/God. There is Nothing that the True Elohim/God cannot Be or Do. The True Elohim/God is Unlimited. You are confused like the Christians that say Elohim/God is Omni and cannot be Evil. If the Elohim/God that you and Christians believe in Cannot be Evil than the Elohim/God you Believe in is Not Omni. You and Christians are seeing the True Unlimited Elohim/God in a Limited Way.

"the Elohim/God you believe is Not Omni. Given that you Believe that Elohim/God cannot be Evil you have placed Limitations on Elohim/God."

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I didn't place a limitation on God. God is executing its omnipotence by creating evil and cursing it. As I wrote. God is making a choice. If you are denying God's capability for creating evil and banishing it, YOU are placing a limitation on God.​

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There is Good Power and there is Evil Power. Elohim/God is Good Power and Evil Power. That is Omnipotence.

That is an incomplete statement. Omnipotence is unlimited capability. God is executing this omnipotence by CHOOSING to banish evil. It does not have an evil side BECAUSE IT CHOOSES NOT TO HAVE ONE.

Let's make this really simple.

Psalms 34:15​

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סור מרע ועשה־טוב בקש שלום ורדפהו׃​

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Depart from evil, and do good; seek peace, and pursue it.​

If I can depart from evil, then God certaintly can depart from evil. And that is precisely what is happening.

Evil is created and simultaneously it is cursed as a consequence of creating good and blessing it.

Denying it is putting a limitation on God.

2 Timothy 3:16

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:


All Holy Scripture from Genesis to Revelation is Inspired of Elohim/God Speaking in Elohim's/God's Name.

You didn't answer the question.

I asked if the author of Romans or Ephesians ever claimed to be writing in God's name. Inspired by God is not the same as writing in God's name.

A great deal of poetry has been inspired by God. It doesn't mean that it is God's words.

"All Holy Scripture from Genesis to Revelation is Inspired of Elohim/God Speaking in Elohim's/God's Name." <---- FALSE.

Inspired =/= Speaking in the Name

Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ is Perfect and Sinless. Striving to Become Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ cast out demons. You appear to be ignorant about the Demons that you have.

Nope. Not sinless. You don't know the law. Regarding casting out demons, you're not doing a very good job of that. If you think I have demons, go ahead... cast them out. You have my permission. Do your work. Prove that you are in Christ.

You are confused teaching false doctrine. If a person didn't have any desire they wouldn't get up in the morning. There is Good Desire and there is Evil Desire. All Desire is from Elohim/God.

I said Eve was captivted by desire. Desire had her. She didn't have it. She was captivated. That means stuck. That means it possessed her. Just as you are possessed by the desire for power.

You appear to be not thinking at all. The reason why people have false doctrines and different interpretations of Holy Scripture is because they ae seeing that they want to see. This is Ordained by Elohim/God.

I'm just quoting the scripture. Your interpretation is WAY different since your God is Satan.

ויאמר יהוה אל־השטן מאין תבא ויען השטן את־יהוה ויאמר משוט בארץ ומהתהלך בה׃​

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And the Lord said to Satan, Where are you coming from? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.​

So, what do think? Is The Lord God, The Most High talking to itself? Is that the plain meaning of the scripture? Or is there something wriggling inside you that needs to flip-flop and twist this?

There is Good Power and there is Evil Power. Elohim/God is Good Power and Evil Power. That is Omnipotence.

You desire ALL OF IT don't you? You desire the evil power and the good power and you desire to be omnipotent so that you can be equal to God, right? Deep down you want to be worshipped, right?

But, I would guess that you have suffered in your life, am I correct? You've struggled greatly? And if you can acheive your goals and attain that power, all of it, then all of those struggles will be worth it? All of it will have had a purpose and meaning? There would have been a reason for everything? All of this comes from a lack of faith. You NEED answers and cannot have simple faith? If so, you'll never reach the kingdom ( Matt 18:3 ). That's the ultimate fault of gnosticism. It is completely lacking in faith.

1) Serving Elohim/God Is Power. Elohim/God Is Power.

Nope. That is just power hungry gnostic delusion.

2) Yes, Satan wants to be Equal With Elohim/God.

And so do you. You've admitted it.

3) It's Not Stealing from a Christians perspective because Christians Being Spiritual Israel is taught in the New Testament.

The epistles are not word of God. If you claim they are inspired by God, and you believe that God is Satan... then you have your answer right there. The author of Romans and Ephesians was inspired by Satan while they were attempting to rewrite the words of the Lord God The Most High.

You can tell when they are possessed by the serpent because they flip-flop scripture and write with words coming from a forked tongue.

4) The Moses that you see has Sex, Eats Meat and Drinks Alcohol. Being Christian Gnostic I see a Different Moses.

That's because you are not an adherent of the the word of The Lord God, The Most High. You are devoted to Power.

5) The Judaism that you practice is Ordained by Elohim/God for Elohim's/God's Earthly Kingdom.

You don't know the Judaism I practice.

Isaiah 40:6

6 The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field:


Therefore, the Flesh is Weak. All Flesh is Grass. You are enjoying what passeth away like dust in the wind.

What you have written here is irrelevant to the point. You're throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks.

"the Flesh is Weak. All Flesh is Grass" <---- Now you have a problem.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

I suppose your yashua is weak like grass and flawed by the passions of the flesh and the sin of the flesh, just like every other human being that walks the earth.

Ooops.

I have Asserted Continually the Truth that Elohim/God is Omni. Elohim/God Is the Creator of All Things and Is All Things. Therefore, Satan must be Elohim/God because there is Nothing that Exists Outside of the True Elohim/God. It appears you and Christians cannot understand this.

I understand it perfectly. Completely. Your God is Satan. And it makes you feel good in your heart.

The serpent lies by omission. It's words are incomplete. That's called plausible deniability. "It's not a lie, it's not a lie." "I know, big brother; it's just woefully incomplete."

The test for a whether or not a person is possessed or simply ignorant is what they do after they have been shown the error. I've explained to you that omnipotence absolutely includes the capability to curse evil and banish it. I've shown you that humans can depart from evil. If you deny that God can and does do these things, then, that's proof positive.

I am not watching any of your Satanic video recommendations.

The Eyes Wide Shut film trailers is for other readers of this thread also.

So you're intentionally posting Satanic videos for others to watch.

You are being led astray by your teacher. Your teacher wants you to be Impotent/Powerless to maintain Subservience to him. Your teacher has Power over you because Elohim/God has given him this Power over you. Elohim/God Is Power. Elohim/God Wants his Servants to be Powerful

Those are the words of Satan making their case. My teacher is the Lord God, The Most High. I choose to serve for many reasons. I don't need any power. I don't want any power. I'm not like you remember. We're opposites.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Elihoenai, like dybmh said, you can become an Israelite if you are ardent enough and nothing else satisfies you, though you may be of any religion (currently you are a Christian) or any race (that I do not know). There is no bar that a Christian cannot join the House of Yakoob, beloved of YHWH.

This is incorrect. To become an Israelite aka a Jew, it requires formal conversion to Judaism. This process adopts a person into the People of Israel. All those who undergo this process must leave their previous religions behind. A person cannot become a Jew while being a Christian.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Are the Priests that are Really Descendants of Aaron Infallible? Do Priests that are Really Descendants of Aaron Claim Infallibility? If they Claim Infallibility that would be the same as Papal Infallibility.


Papal infallibility

Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church which states that, in virtue of the promise of Jesus to Peter, the Pope when he speaks ex cathedra is preserved from the possibility of error on doctrine "initially given to the apostolic Church and handed down in Scripture and tradition".[1] It does not mean that the pope cannot sin or otherwise err in most situations.

Papal infallibility - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Has ANYONE ever said Aaronic priests are infallible? No. But they had the God given authority to interpret the Law, along with the Judges (rabbis). Deuteronomy 17:8-13

Why are you bringing up Papal infallibility? We aren't discussing Catholicism. They have nothing to do with us.

 

[Kenny]

This is incorrect. To become an Israelite aka a Jew, it requires formal conversion to Judaism. This process adopts a person into the People of Israel. All those who undergo this process must leave their previous religions behind. A person cannot become a Jew while being a Christian.

What happens if you are a Jew and you become a Hindu?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yes, the Penalty in the Torah for Idolatry is death. Atheism and Apostasy is Idolatry because Worshipping Other Elohim/Gods. The point Being made is that Atheists and Apostates do Not Exist in Israel because they are put to Death. Therefore, no such thing as an Atheist Jew and Apostate Jew Living in Israel as Elohim/God Commanded in Torah.

The Truth is that none of the practitioners of Judaism are Really keeping the Law of Moses, otherwise Atheists and Apostates would be put to death.

Two things.
1. Remember that the levites and judges are granted the authority by God to interpret the law. The penalties listed in the Torah are maximum sentences. Judges could, and did, often meet out lesser sentences. The death penalty was almost never given. A court that had even one execution in 70 years was called a bloody court.
2. Jews do not live in a theocracy today. We are citizens of various countries around the world, or of the secular democratic state of Israel. Thus, when it comes to criminal law, we follow the law of the land. We do not at this time in history have any Jewish courts that prosecute criminal activity. It has nothing to do with "not following Torah." It has to do with not living in a theocracy.

Just a quick question, as I'm curious. Do you believe that Jews should be executing idolaters? Why or why not.

 

[Colt]

What happens if you are a Jew and you become a Hindu?

Different holidays and more curry!

 

[IndigoChild5559]

You believe that you are Right and Karaite Practitioners of Judaism are Wrong. You don't accept that what the Karaites practice is Judaism. You believe that the Judaism that you practice is the Right one. Do you believe that there is only one True Judaism?

This will be my last post to you concerning Karaism, as I feel I'm talking to a brick wall. You are making no attempt to understand my position. Again, I'm fine if you disagree, no problem. But your continued questions indicate that you are not listening to me, which is insulting.

Karaism is not Judaism, since it does not respect the Oral Torah, and that is a necessary element of all forms of Judaism.

Yes, I think that Karaites are mistaken about this. However, that doesn't mean I think they are going to hell or anything. Like I said, they worship God and seek to live ethically. That's what is important.

There are currently four movements in Judaism: Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, and Reconstruction. I have opinions about each one of them, but accept them all as legitimate forms of Judaism.

 

[Bthoth]

The word Jew, first used during the Babylonian captivity, does not refer to the tribe of Judah. It refers to the KINGDOM of Judah. You can be of any of the 12 tribes and be called a Jew.

Jew is a person that retains the rules; the commandments. The old tribal angle is a foundation of bigotry.

I have wondered about that error of rational for about half a century. From flood stories to the dross of Ezek 22. The good keep the rules and the other don't, no matter what the tribe is.

That correction should be made universal.

For example, Mordechai in the Book of Esther is called a Jew, and he was of the tribe of Benjamin.

Great example. The tribe is not the relevance to which who is good by a god (or us people).

British Israelism is, as your quote points out above, PSEUDOarcheology and PSEUDOhistory. No one takes it seriously except a few racists.

the racist actually believe Jew is a tribal entity. As it makes the identifier (jew) into a racial (tribal) qualifier.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

What happens if you are a Jew and you become a Hindu?

Then you are considered apostate. That means that even though technically you are still a Jew, you are more or less cast out, no longer having any rights as a Jew. For example, you could not testify in a Jewish court of law, could not be buried in a Jewish cemetery, etc.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Jew is a person that retains the rules; the commandments. The old tribal angle is a foundation of bigotry.

There is nothing bigoted about acknowledging the existence of any tribal people. The Lakota are a wonderful tribe. The Zulu are a wonderful tribe. The People of Israel are wonderful too.

There are plenty of Jews who do not keep the commandments. It makes them a sinful Jew, not a non-Jew.

Jewish status is determined by Halakha (Jewish law). Thus, I'm afraid your opinion doesn't really count.

 

[Bthoth]

Yes, it supports what you said Jew being the Kingdom of Judah. It's for the benefit of readers if they want more information.









I was born and brought up in London, England and live in London, England. The fact is that the English has proved their Racial Superiority with the British Empire and this is Ordained by Elohim/God. Those that practice British Israelism point to the fulfilment of Prophecies with the Establishment of the British Empire.

The English/Germans have the Superior Earthly Power. I Am Morally Superior to the English/Germans. The World is All About Power and Not Really About Morals.

But the morally bound person is the superior mind. Race and tribal identifier is not what makes a person good or superior.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

But the morally bound person is the superior mind. Race and tribal identifier is not what makes a person good or superior.

I don't think anyone is making that claim.

 

[Bthoth]

I don't think anyone is making that claim.

OK........ as you see it. Apparently you still keep the idea that a person is jewish based on blood line or that a group of leaders decide who is good and who is not.

By reading torah/bible, the good keep the rules. Maybe that is my problem, I like jews and judaism and I comprehend how and why even a god of bible would like them. Moral responsibility!

 

[Bthoth]

There is nothing bigoted about acknowledging the existence of any tribal people.

I have no problem with tribes.

The Lakota are a wonderful tribe. The Zulu are a wonderful tribe.

No issues with either

The People of Israel are wonderful too.

The people of israel are the dross of Ezek 22. Nothing in that chapter even mentions Jews as dross.

There are plenty of Jews who do not keep the commandments. It makes them a sinful Jew, not a non-Jew.

There is the difference. Jews keep the rules and how they earned favor by the god of bible, not because of their tribe.

Jewish status is determined by Halakha (Jewish law). Thus, I'm afraid your opinion doesn't really count.

I am aware that the bias is so deep in so many areas that I cannot make much of any difference.


Thank you for reminding me.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

OK........ as you see it. Apparently you still keep the idea that a person is jewish based on blood line or that a group of leaders decide who is good and who is not.

By reading torah/bible, the good keep the rules. Maybe that is my problem, I like jews and judaism and I comprehend how and why even a god of bible would like them. Moral responsibility!

Tribal identity is not necessarily bloodline. For example, one can have a Jewish father and non-Jewish mother and are NOT a Jew despite having the father's genes. Another example is the convert, who is adopted into the People, and is a Jew, but lacks any genetics whatsover. But its STILL tribal identity, not following Jewish law, that makes us Jews.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The people of israel are the dross of Ezek 22. Nothing in that chapter even mentions Jews as dross.

There have been times Israel has been obedient, and times when not. There are good Jews, and bad Jews. But a person is still a Jew even if they are sinful, and God is faithful to Israel even when Israel is not faithful to him.

There is the difference. Jews keep the rules and how they earned favor by the god of bible, not because of their tribe.

Religious Jews obey God simply because he is God and worthy of our obedience.

 

[Bthoth]

There have been times Israel has been obedient, and times when not.

Israel was born in 1947 and has not been obedient to even the UN which created the state.

There are good Jews, and bad Jews.

I guess, I put jews on a pedestal of earning favor, rather than just being born of a family makes them better than.

But a person is still a Jew even if they are sinful, and God is faithful to Israel even when Israel is not faithful to him.

There is that digression again. Jews keep the rules and have passed them on to many of mankind, thankfully. Israel was born in 1947, just because a story of jacob crossing a river is how his name was changed does not make israel a people.

Religious Jews obey God simply because he is God and worthy of our obedience.

Agreed, the good keep the rules, the other not so much. Hence the dross (israel) is mentioned in tanakh as ending up on the other side of the good.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Israel was born in 1947 and has not been obedient to even the UN which created the state.

I guess, I put jews on a pedestal of earning favor, rather than just being born of a family makes them better than.


There is that digression again. Jews keep the rules and have passed them on to many of mankind, thankfully. Israel was born in 1947, just because a story of jacob crossing a river is how his name was changed does not make israel a people.

Agreed, the good keep the rules, the other not so much. Hence the dross (israel) is mentioned in tanakh as ending up on the other side of the good.

In my post when I used the word Israel I was referring to the people of Israel, not the modern state. Although the modern state has a majority of Jews (and most of them are secular) there are many Israelis that are not Jewish. And it is a modern democracy not a theocracy