Who Or What Is Israel?

[2ndpillar]

SO what changed within the religious identifier of 'chosen ones'?

I find that the good chose to follow the rules and the other choose not to.

If a god was choosing which are good and which are not, how is does that work?

You have the "righteous" (good) and the "lawless" (wicked) as described in Matthew 13. It is not until the end that "you will again distinguish between the righteous and the wicked" (Malachi 3:18). For now, "we call the arrogant blessed" and the "wicked" are built up (Mal 3:15).

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I know..... So why would anyone condemn the Jews as israeli?

People who think Jews are Israelis are simply ignorant. They are confused by the overlap, by which I mean that 73% of Israelis are Jews (and not always religious Jews). They are also likely confused by the similarity of the words Israeli and Israelite.

Pew Research says that 5.8 million American citizens are adult Jews (Jewish children being an additional 1.8 million), roughly 2.4% of the US population. Almost none of these are Israeli (occasionally you have people with dual citizenship). I am an American citizen, and not Israeli. I am a Jew/Israelite/Hebrew.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Not related? Then what is torah for? Do you believe that torah is for separating people or teaching personal responsibility?

The Torah is the covenant of the People of Israel. It gives the ethical underpinnings of our culture. Although yes, I have personal responsibility to keep the Torah, it is more than that. There is a communal element to it.

Again, all I can do to help you understand is to give you analogies from other tribal peoples. The Lakota are a tribe. They have a tribal religion. Some Lakota follow that religion. Some Lakota do not. If a Lakota doesn't follow traditional Lakota spirituality, it does not make them less Lakota.

Israel is the reason the topic is on forefront of the rf. It's sure not because of tribe.

I think I went over this earlier in the thread, but I will repeat it. ISRAEL is a word that has a number of definitions/usages.
1. It can refer to the man Israel aka Jacob, one of the patriarchs of the Jewish people.
2. It can refer to the united kingdom of Israel under Saul, David, and Solomon.
3. It can refer to the northern kingdom of Israel, which had Samaria as its capital.
4. It can refer to the modern Jewish state of Israel, which came into existence in 1948.
5. It can refer to the Hebrews aka Israelites aka Jews, the PEOPLE of Israel, who are a tribal people consisting of 12 tribes. Membership in this People is determined by Jewish law.

All of these usages make for good topic for RF, first because (except of #4) they are all in the Tanakh aka Old Testament, a sacred text for both Jews and Christians, and second because part of religion is the discussion of ethics, so for example, someone may wish to discuss the ethics regarding the current war in Gaza.

And I would ask; would god approve of your explanation, that the blood line is more important than keeping the rules?

The most important thing in this life is to be a good person. One does not have to be a Jew to be a good person (nor are Jews always good).

But it is not the only important thing in life. One of the things that is also important is what group you belong to. It can be a group that you voluntarily join, or it can be a group that you are born into, such as citizenship of a country.

Jewish identity is very important to Jews.

You continue to use the word bloodline inappropriately. Bloodline is an expression that means genetics. I have stated numerous times that Jewish identity is NOT based on genetics -- there are plenty of people of Jewish decent who are not Jews. Please excise the word bloodline from our conversation.

Just as israel did not exist prior to 1947. That part is fact. The taking a king of judah does not make a bloodline captive.

Too many errors here -- I wouldn't even know where to start.

I will simply reiterate my point. The word Yehudi (Jew) was first used by teh Babylonians to refer to all their captives from the kingdom of Yehudah (Judah).

Identity is not important. For example: the LBGT. Are you suggesting the self identity as the importance?

THE importance? You keep treating this like only one thing can be important.

 

[River Sea]

Which points to Hagar, the Egyptian Woman that gendereth to bondage. Earthly Jerusalem represents the Womb of Hagar...


New Jerusalem represents the Womb of Sarah.

The idea here is that the Human Race needs to be Born Again of Abraham's Seed.

More likely from Egypt: Hathor (called Baalat by the Caananites) is quite ancient in Egypt. This article argues that Hathor might have come from the Canaanites, but again, Hathor is quite ancient, So I say other way around. Turquoise mine in the Sinai:

Did the Egyptian goddess Hathor originate in Canaan?

Hathor was goddess to Egyptian pharaohs, and to Semitic turquoise miners in the Sinai, who came from Canaan. But who had her first, archaeologists wonder.

www.haaretz.com

I'm new to learning about RA and Hathor.

RA sent Hathor to earth and Hathor helped women get pregnant.

@Yokefellow Please will you explain your cow profile icon and the reasons you've chosen. I learned that Hathor was sometimes described as having a cow head. Do you use cows to help you articulate so others can comprehend?

@Yokefellow you claim

Hagar, the Egyptian Woman that gendereth to bondage. Earthly Jerusalem represents the Womb of Hagar

New Jerusalem represents the Womb of Sarah.

Human Race needs to be Born Again of Abraham's Seed.

@Yokefellow do you know RA?

One eye Ra sent: who, Hathor, Hagar, Sarah, or only Hathor?

If you were a son to either of these women, how would you feel about yourself and your relationship with God?

@crossfire using imagination as our thoughts are subjective while learning.

How did Ra manage these types of soil (black and red)? It was Set who managed the black KMT soil; who was it who managed the red dry land? How did RA help them as they managed this when Ra sent Hathor to help women get pregnant while dealing with how to survive on earth?

How did they travel to the new soil land of the Levant

The levant (promised land) was egypts New kingdom. Recorded in stone. And per torah, Moses was born and raised in egypt. MAkes sense that learning the culture of egypt was/is an actuality.

and find ways to drink water before there's cisterns to hold water? Or where are the wells? Israel is Egypt due to the increased land area, which brought Ra with, which became EL. Is-RA-EL or Yis-RA-EL = One Eye RA continues.

I'll re-read here to learn who manage the red soil. Keep in mind I write as I learn

Set was the only deity worshiped by the Hyksos (Asiatic) Pharaoh/King Apepi (Apophis). Every night, Set would wrestle with Apep, the Serpent of Chaos which would try to thwart Ra's journey through the Duat (underworld) every night. It's interesting that Jacob wrestled the angel all through the night as well.

Set (deity) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And here about cisterns. Which is amazing actually.

he biblical cisterns were made in outlying areas as in the narrative of abraham. Covered by stone. Closed and reopened. Nothing like that here. Also, can you help with the Hebrew word and it's meaning, please.

Cistern - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

@Yokefellow
Is that what you mean by Sarah = new Kingdom Levant, so RA continues? Did RA love Hagar? I feel for Hagar though; she just helped Sarah, so how come Sarah was so mean to Hagar? How come Abraham couldn't help Sarah and Hagar get along? How did Hathor help in this situation, and how come Hathor didn't help Sarah get pregnant sooner so as not to break down emotionally and ask Abraham to go get Hagar pregnant?

I might do some research to see if the pillars of the mesektet barque were ever associated with a pillar of cloud and a pillar of fire, just because it's interesting...

The similarities of these stories. Have you research this of yet? What is pillar of cloud pillar of fire?

 

[Bthoth]

As for preemptive strikes, what about 1973 and 7 Oct (feast of Sukkot) 2023,

Everyone has a 'what a bout'? 67 was preemptive, israel stuck first.
If you want a 'what about' then address the illegal occupation.

As for the refinement (melting) of Judah,

The chapter says israel, not judah.

first the Levites will be refined as silver,

Refined? They are lousy teachers. The folk that I have been chatting with have no idea that what makes judaism so good. The material information to teach personal responsibility. This is 2023 and the rabbi'd are still confused.

and then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be accepted (Malachi 3:3).

That's what I would like to stop, the burnt offering of Jerusalem.

As for the melting referred to in Zech 14:12,

Did not even bring it up.

that refers to the nations surrounding Jerusalem,

OK, so now you are pointing at other locations. Samson option will do just that.

which is in line with the description stated during the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima.

Hiroshima is no where near the dross (israel).

As for the existence of Israel, the Jews, the house of Judah, by way of the Zionist, were given access to the area of Judea, the land given to Jacob/Israel (Ex 37:25), by way of God,

Funny stuff. During the time of exodus, the levant was egypts NEW KINGDOM. There was no exodus from egypt to egypts new kingdom. The book is wrong, archaeology has already proven the time period of egypts New Kingdom.

and by way of the British Balfour declaration of 1917

Balfour (letter) did not make israel, it was a suggestion. The UN created israel.

for the Jewish part in the WWI war effort,

What? Millions of them died because of the bigotry of people trying to claim jews were a blood line.

and the donated new process of producing explosives.

What?

And the land of Israel was specified in Ez 36:17.

The whole of existence is real with 'the name' of god. That arm pit in the levant is the land of the dross.

As for the Law, the law of Jubilee, the land shall return to Israel every 50 Years, on the feast of Jubilee.

Go jubilee all you like. Them laws are the UN or representing mankind.

Note that land was returned in 1973 and 50 years later in 2023 more land will be returned.

Returned, the aprtheid has taken a bunch by force and still to this day, the city of blood (jerusalem) is held by illegal occupation

As for the nations and their Progressive pantheist religions, and their multitude of plagues (Rev 18:4), well, let us say, that it will not end well.

I know, it's sick that idolatry for the location has caused so much violence, death and dissent.

As for number of Jews, well, there are more Jews in the U.S. than in Israel, and that in the range of 7 million.

That is what I am happy about, that no matter what happens over there, the majority will be safe with US.

As for the existance of Israel, Jacob was a son of Isaac, and he was given the name of Israel,

By a story. Not real world. 'wrestles with GOD' is a name that many reinterpret as meaning a bunch of things.

a name he passed to his son Joseph, and his name was passed to his son Ephraim, and his name was attached to the 10 northern tribes, who have been scattered among the nations, and are referred to as the house of Israel.

Lousy label, as Ezek 22 calls israel as dross "all of them' per the chapter.

Do you know why?

The original name Israel was attached to all 12 tribes plus Levi before the breakup following the time of Solomon.

Sure, many interpretations and now the new term is 'self determination' borrowed from the LBGT.

The two houses will be reunited on the land given to Jacob with David as their king (Ez 37). The present state of "Israel" is part of the original land of Israel.

The dross surround the city of blood over a stupid mount with no temple on it.

I know, i get it. The problem that bugs me the most is that israel has done more damage to Jews and judaism, than anything since ww2.

 

[Bthoth]

You have the "righteous" (good) and the "lawless" (wicked) as described in Matthew 13.

a....Matt is irrelevant

b.... the good follow the rules

c... israel are wicked and perhaps why the term dross, fits so well

It is not until the end that "you will again distinguish between the righteous and the wicked" (Malachi 3:18).

I can distinguish, just fine, right now.

For now, "we call the arrogant blessed" and the "wicked" are built up (Mal 3:15).

Maybe in your belief system and comprehension.

I can witness and identify wicked just fine, right now!

 

[Bthoth]

The Torah is the covenant of the People of Israel.

Lots of people use torah and that book existed well before Israel even existed. No one owns what torah is or teaches.

It gives the ethical underpinnings of our culture.

Ethical? The rules/commandments are the importance of torah. Not the blood line.

Although yes, I have personal responsibility to keep the Torah, it is more than that. There is a communal element to it.

Sure, the use is flavored depending on the individual groups. Just like bible and quran.

Again, all I can do to help you understand is to give you analogies from other tribal peoples.

Now you want to compare yourself to the indigenous of north america.

Funny stuff.

I think I went over this earlier in the thread, but I will repeat it. ISRAEL is a word that has a number of definitions/usages.

And I have added my own. What IS REAL is what is true. Jacob arguing with an angel in a river did not make a religion, people or state.

1. It can refer to the man Israel aka Jacob, one of the patriarchs of the Jewish people.
2. It can refer to the united kingdom of Israel under Saul, David, and Solomon.
3. It can refer to the northern kingdom of Israel, which had Samaria as its capital.
4. It can refer to the modern Jewish state of Israel, which came into existence in 1948.

#4.... The UN created israel in 1948. That is true.

5. It can refer to the Hebrews aka Israelites aka Jews, the PEOPLE of Israel, who are a tribal people consisting of 12 tribes. Membership in this People is determined by Jewish law.

I am aware of the variety of uses for the term. They dont make it right as I will not condemn Jews to be israel (the dross) of tanakh.

All of these usages make for good topic for RF, first because (except of #4) they are all in the Tanakh aka Old Testament,

I know but you skip the label claimed to be by god, the dross!

a sacred text for both Jews and Christians,

I know and why i enjoy pointing out, that israel DOES NOT OWN the text of torah or the tanakh.

and second because part of religion is the discussion of ethics,

The best part and usage of the torah/tanakh are the ethic, morals and as I point out PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY

so for example, someone may wish to discuss the ethics regarding the current war in Gaza.

There is nothing ethical about that war. Israel is ticked and imposing retribution. The apartheid created that concentration camp.

The most important thing in this life is to be a good person.

MY point exactly, the state is not important. The claims of a tribe is not important and most definitely not the focal importance of torah.

One does not have to be a Jew to be a good person (nor are Jews always good).

You step on your own toes with that one.

But it is not the only important thing in life.

The most important choice a person can make is maintain personal responsibility and the commandments are about universal to help any human being to be moral, ethical and good, with or without any state, tribe or concern of the state of israel.

One of the things that is also important is what group you belong to.

belong? The slaves belong to a people, here in the USA the people are self determined and capable to be as good or bad as any on the earth, by their own choice.

It can be a group that you voluntarily join, or it can be a group that you are born into, such as citizenship of a country.

If you were born here, then you are US before israelis, ite, hebrew or slave to a tribal law.

Jewish identity is very important to Jews.

OK but what is more important is keeping the rules, the commandments over any choice.

You continue to use the word bloodline inappropriately. Bloodline is an expression that means genetics. I have stated numerous times that Jewish

identity is NOT based on genetics

but claiming Mother is the importance of who is Jew, is about blood line without ever using the word genetics

-- there are plenty of people of Jewish decent who are not Jews.

I know, they do not accept the guideline of the biased.

Please excise the word bloodline from our conversation.

Then dont use the term israel as a tribe and try to compare the label to north American indigenous tribes.

Too many errors here -- I wouldn't even know where to start.

Exactly. The dance is constant. You expect me to conform to a model that is not religious.

I will simply reiterate my point. The word Yehudi (Jew) was first used by teh Babylonians to refer to all their captives from the kingdom of Yehudah (Judah).

Ah yes, the change of terms moving again. One minute jews are israel (line of jacob) the next Jew is from a kingdom of judah, the next not all israelis are Jew and then the children of a jewish mother are jew but do not use blood line as a term.

THE importance? You keep treating this like only one thing can be important.

The most important aspect of torah is the knowledge to enable personal responsibility, the information is the importance, not the historical claims, not the tribal ideas and most definitely not that a single group is more important than the rest of mankind.

I cannot become a bigot just to appease the biased. I comprehend the religion, the dialogue and the importance without being told that unless I am jew, i have no right and other are authority over being capable without an authority trying to force capitulation.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Lots of people use torah and that book existed well before Israel even existed. No one owns what torah is or teaches.

The Torah is written by Jews, about Jews, for Jews. If non-Jews find inspiration in it, more power to them. But it does not belong to them, and if they say it does, that is called appropriation.

Ethical? The rules/commandments are the importance of torah. Not the blood line.

I'm letting you know right now. I'm sick of your bloodline strawman. I'm not going to repeat myself ad infinitum. You can either learn what I actually mean, or we can end the discussion. Any future post with the word bloodline in it is going to be ignored in full.

Now you want to compare yourself to the indigenous of north america.

Comparing tribe to tribe. Makes sense to me.

#4.... The UN created israel in 1948. That is true.

But as I said, it is simply one of five different ways that "Israel" is used. For example, in the opening post of this thread, the OP uses Israel in the first sense, that it refers to the man Jacob.

The question then arises, in OUR sub-conversation, what defintiion are WE using. I've stated over and over that I'm using definition #5, the PEOPLE of Israel, not the nation, not the kingdom, not the person. For you to continue to pretend we are talking about the modern state is clear obfuscation of the debate, and I've lost my patience with you. If you do it again, the conversation is over.

I am aware of the variety of uses for the term. They dont make it right as I will not condemn Jews to be israel (the dross) of tanakh.

Jews=Hebrews=Israelites. They are used interchangably.

I know but you skip the label claimed to be by god, the dross!

Again, you use the word dross as your antisemitic catchphrase. Do it again, and our conversation is over.

I know and why i enjoy pointing out, that israel DOES NOT OWN the text of torah or the tanakh.

We certainly do.

The most important choice a person can make is maintain personal responsibility and the commandments are about universal to help any human being to be moral, ethical and good, with or without any state, tribe or concern of the state of israel.

You need to remember that most of the commandments in teh Torah were given only to the People of Israel. They do include some universal ethics, like Don't murder. But there is no reason for non-Jew to keep kosher or keep the shabbat. "And God said to Moses, Speak to the Children of Israel saying..." not to the nations, not to the world.

If you were born here, then you are US before israelis, ite, hebrew or slave to a tribal law.

Again its not a competition. I'm an American, a Jew, a Woman, and a political independent. All those labels are important.

but claiming Mother is the importance of who is Jew, is about blood line without ever using the word genetics

No, it doesn't mean genetics. Consider the person whose father is a Jew but whose mother is not. They may carry half the genetics of the father, but they are 0% Jew.

Remember, this is the last post in which I will tolerate you continuing to misrepresent me with the word bloodline.

Then dont use the term israel as a tribe and try to compare the label to north American indigenous tribes.

I will continue, because comparing my tribal People to another tribal People makes the most sense.



I'm assuming that you are emotionally driven to continue your antisemitic remarks, straw man arguments, and deliberate misrepresentation of what I'd said. I've given you a number of things that I'm simply not going to continue to tolerate. The ball is completely in your court. If you want to respond in thoughtful and ethical manner, I'm more than willing to chat with you. But I suspect that you will be unwilling to do that. So this may be my last correspondence with you. If I do not reply, you are pretty much aware why.

 

[Bthoth]

The Torah is written by Jews, about Jews, for Jews. If non-Jews find inspiration in it, more power to them. But it does not belong to them, and if they say it does, that is called appropriation.

OK..... I like judaism/torah for the wisdom. Both bible and quran obtain, gain the same.

Great....... enjoy being a part of the religion.

I'm letting you know right now. I'm sick of your bloodline strawman. I'm not going to repeat myself ad infinitum. You can either learn what I actually mean, or we can end the discussion. Any future post with the word bloodline in it is going to be ignored in full.

OK........... I wrote; "Ethical? The rules/commandments are the importance of torah. Not the blood line."

So it's clear, just like the above line. The material is the good. Take that as quality input.

Comparing tribe to tribe. Makes sense to me.

OK. ... appropiation! That's the word that you used.

But as I said, it is simply one of five different ways that "Israel" is used. For example, in the opening post of this thread, the OP uses Israel in the first sense, that it refers to the man Jacob.

jacob? Wrestles with god! Is the idea used. An angel. Has nothing to do with the good, the wisdom.

The question then arises, in OUR sub-conversation, what defintiion are WE using. I've stated over and over that I'm using definition #5, the PEOPLE of Israel, not the nation, not the kingdom, not the person. For you to continue to pretend we are talking about the modern state is clear obfuscation of the debate, and I've lost my patience with you. If you do it again, the conversation is over.

OK... in ezek, the dross are israel.......... 'all of them'

How do you observe that?

Jews=Hebrews=Israelites. They are used interchangably.

Of course...... israel are the dross per tanakh and i love Jews for the responsibility that they keep.

Again, you use the word dross as your antisemitic catchphrase. Do it again, and our conversation is over.

Sorry, I am using what tanakh has in writing. If you are willing to write that term in hebrew I will observe it.

but using the anti semitic rues is blatantly rude. Should I report you?

You need to remember that most of the commandments in teh Torah were given only to the People of Israel.

Only? They existed in egypt before torah.

They do include some universal ethics, like Don't murder. But there is no reason for non-Jew to keep kosher or keep the shabbat. "And God said to Moses, Speak to the Children of Israel saying..." not to the nations, not to the world.

Likewise, moses had 3000 + murdered for not following the commandments. Brethren!

Again its not a competition. I'm an American, a Jew, a Woman, and a political independent. All those labels are important.

OK.... i have not debated any of those. But as American. 'we' are free from religious authority trying to tell US what is real.

No, it doesn't mean genetics. Consider the person whose father is a Jew but whose mother is not. They may carry half the genetics of the father, but they are 0% Jew.

OK.. condemn the father as irrelevant. Even if a cohen right?

Remember, this is the last post in which I will tolerate you continuing to misrepresent me with the word bloodline.

OK, then end the scope that you know it all

I will continue, because comparing my tribal People to another tribal People makes the most sense.

Appropriation is the word that you used.

I'm assuming that you are emotionally driven to continue your antisemitic remarks,

using the anti semitic angle is just wrong, rude and irresponsible.

I've given you a number of things that I'm simply not going to continue to tolerate.

I tolerate your abuse and false accusations. I guess equality is not your method.

The ball is completely in your court. If you want to respond in thoughtful and ethical manner,

The ethical approach is personal responsibility, not compliance with your opinion

I'm more than willing to chat with you.

If so, then be honest BeFORE belief

But I suspect that you will be unwilling to do that. So this may be my last correspondence with you. If I do not reply, you are pretty much aware why.

I know why, you expect to be controlling of what is israel............. and what is good about judaism.


I love judaism for the comprehension of the rules. When you accept that I am just as capable as you are, then equal ground can be made.

 

[Yokefellow]

I'm new to learning about RA and Hathor.

Hi @River Sea .

Because there is so much to learn, depending on the various eras of the Egyptian timeline, I decided to interpret the various Gods and Goddesses through the lens of the Christian Bible to make things easier for me.

Here is one example from Wikipedia:

In the New kingdom, Ra came to be associated with the epithet "Kamutef" ('Bull of his mother') alongside Amun. As Kamutef, he was seen as the son and husband of Hathor who impregnates his own mother to give birth to himself.

The above is a perfect description of how the Sons of God 'came into' the Daughters of Men to give birth to themselves. Their so called 'wives' were also their Mothers. The end result were the Giants.

Jesus did something similar in that he conceived himself, making Mary both his Mom and Wife. There are a lot of other interesting parallels.

RA sent Hathor to earth and Hathor helped women get pregnant.

From Wiki:

Mistaking the beer for blood, Sekhmet drinks it, and upon becoming intoxicated, she reverts to her pacified form, Hathor.

Mystery Babylon (Mother Earth) 'drinks Blood', which describes soil fertilization and is a euphemistic way of describing Ovum Fertilization.

Her 'black soil' craves more Blood so that it can be fruitful. She is all about the cycle of death and rebirth. We are currently trapped in it.

Hathor is also known as the Lady of the Sycamore Fig Tree. Those that partake of her Forbidden Fruit (i.e., eat her flesh and drink her Blood) are 'Born Again'... literally as in reincarnation. Think of the Covering of Fig leaves in the Garden of Eden...

@Yokefellow Please will you explain your cow profile icon and the reasons you've chosen.

Yokefellow is from this verse...

Philippians 4:3
"And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life."

The icon is to show that I work to help others understand Scripture. I am a Servant of no particular importance.

I learned that Hathor was sometimes described as having a cow head. Do you use cows to help you articulate so others can comprehend?

Yes. It helps describe female anatomy for example without having to post graphic pictures...

The Bible uses the same euphemisms so that Children can be taught certain concepts without it being obvious at first. Milk vs. Meat.

@Yokefellow you claim

Hagar, the Egyptian Woman that gendereth to bondage. Earthly Jerusalem represents the Womb of Hagar

New Jerusalem represents the Womb of Sarah.

Human Race needs to be Born Again of Abraham's Seed.

@Yokefellow do you know RA?

One eye Ra sent: who, Hathor, Hagar, Sarah, or only Hathor?

If you were a son to either of these women, how would you feel about yourself and your relationship with God?

Depending on context, Ra vs. Hathor can be likened to the Sun (Father) vs. Moon (Mother). It is all about which Parents we choose to reincarnate from...

• Abraham and Sarah = Glorified Body
• Ra and Hathor = Body of Corruption

The 'Mystery' is ultimately all about rebirth.

@Yokefellow
Is that what you mean by Sarah = new Kingdom Levant, so RA continues? Did RA love Hagar? I feel for Hagar though; she just helped Sarah, so how come Sarah was so mean to Hagar? How come Abraham couldn't help Sarah and Hagar get along? How did Hathor help in this situation, and how come Hathor didn't help Sarah get pregnant sooner so as not to break down emotionally and ask Abraham to go get Hagar pregnant?

I am unsure of what you are asking. Abraham was not supposed to get Hagar pregnant.

What is pillar of cloud pillar of fire?

Pillar of Fire = Baptism with Fire (Thrown into the Lake of Fire to be reincarnated)
Pillar of Cloud = Baptism with Water (Conceived and birthed from the Amniotic Fluid of the Womb)

The Tabernacle was a picture of the Zygote we all were conceived into...

 

[Elihoenai]

Yes.
Israeli--citizen of Israel. Could be Jew, Arab, Russian, etc. Jews who are not citizens of Israel, such as myself, are not Israeli.
Israelite--a member of the people of Israel, aka a Hebrew, a Jew

Ephesians 2:12

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:



Therefore, Israel is the People and Country. From your perspective you have to be a Citizen of the country of Israel to be an Israeli.


Israeli citizenship law

Every Jew has the unrestricted right to immigrate to Israel and become an Israeli citizen. Individuals born within the country receive citizenship at birth if at least one parent is a citizen. Non-Jewish foreigners may naturalize after living there for at least three years while holding permanent residency and demonstrating proficiency in the Hebrew language. Naturalizing non-Jews are additionally required to renounce their previous nationalities, while Jewish immigrants are not subject to this requirement.

Israeli citizenship law - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You Must enter into a Covenant with the Elohim/God of Israel to be an Israeli Citizen in Christian Gnosticism/Authentic Christianity.

 

[Elihoenai]

Since when is 1 Peter part of Jewish sacred texts?

The Holy Scriptures/Bible from Genesis to Revelation is Jewish Sacred Text. Remember the first Christians were Jewish.

 

[Elihoenai]

He just said he was a panentheist, meaning he believes that God is all the universe and more besides.

He can speak for himself explaining his own beliefs.

 

[Elihoenai]

quoting texts that have no place in Judaism doesn't do anything to effect Jewish belief.

I'm aware of that. A Christian provides Christian Holy Scriptures.

your connecting "the adversary" to "the devil" is not in any scripture I see as holy.

Therefore, you reject the New Testament as being Holy. Is that correct?

The adversary is an angel of God who does God's bidding and that includes trying to get people to sin and then accusing them once they sin.

The Jewish View of Satan

What is the Jewish view of Satan? Was he a fallen angel? Let's find out in this interesting post on this topic. Read on to find out.

jewsforjudaism.org

Job 19:26

26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:


That link is much appreciated the content being Liberating when you consider it.

The Judaic view on the Devil/Satan is close to the Christian Gnostic view. In Christian Gnosticism the Devil/Satan is Elohim/God in its Lowest Form. The Satan/Devil is Elohim/God Flesh. Elohim/God wants its Creation to Climb the Ladder to Elohim's/God's Higher Form.

Elohim's/God's Ladder:
Flesh->Soul->Spirit

 

[Elihoenai]

SO what changed within the religious identifier of 'chosen ones'?

I find that the good chose to follow the rules and the other choose not to.

If a god was choosing which are good and which are not, how is does that work?

The Religious Identifier of the Chosen Ones got Watered Down because they Rejected Elohim's/God's Demands/Requirements to be Chosen Ones.

Yes, the Good follow the Rules while the Evil break the Rules. Elohim/God determines the Good or the Evil based on Adherence to Elohim's/God's Rules/Standard. There are varying Interpretations on Elohim's/God's Rules/Standard.

 

[Elihoenai]

TDR has huge ambiguity.

I'm saying what ever Religion you practice it Must be with Total Devotion, otherwise it's just Half-Hearted Uncommitted Weak Religion.

IS there TDR for heathen atheist?

Yes indeed, there is Total Religious Devotion Heathen Atheist. Heathen Atheism is a Religion. Every person on the planet is practising a Religion. Your Elohim/God and your Religion is what you Value most making you get out of bed every morning. Really there are only two Religions that are Right-Hand Path or Left-Hand Path.

Madalyn Murray O'Hair Faceoff

The flagrance in using the term religion is why there is so many tangents.

For example: a few of the claimant jews here on this channel, put blood line as the importance and yet torah suggests that the very reason god preferred a certain group is because they followed the rules.

The ambiguity is huge and based on self identity, rather than religion.

The Blood Line view on Israel is Racism and Worldly. Racism is the Nature of the World.

It's Absolutely True that Really Israel are those that Follow the Rules of the Elohim/God of Israel and Nobody else. You Cannot be Israel given that you do Not follow the Rules of the Elohim/God of Israel.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Ephesians 2:12

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:



Therefore, Israel is the People and Country. From your perspective you have to be a Citizen of the country of Israel to be an Israeli.


Israeli citizenship law

Every Jew has the unrestricted right to immigrate to Israel and become an Israeli citizen. Individuals born within the country receive citizenship at birth if at least one parent is a citizen. Non-Jewish foreigners may naturalize after living there for at least three years while holding permanent residency and demonstrating proficiency in the Hebrew language. Naturalizing non-Jews are additionally required to renounce their previous nationalities, while Jewish immigrants are not subject to this requirement.

Israeli citizenship law - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You Must enter into a Covenant with the Elohim/God of Israel to be an Israeli Citizen in Christian Gnosticism/Authentic Christianity.

How does ANY of that disprove ANYTHING I said? Yes, anyone who is a Jew has a "right of return." If I wanted to, I could move to Israel and be granted citizenship. BUT, I haven't done that, and so I am NOT an Israeli, I remain an American citizen. Secondly, just because Jews have the righty of return doesn't mean there aren't non-Jewish Israelis. ONLY 73.5% of Israelis are Jews. That means 26% of Israelis are NOT Jews. Are we clear now?

 

[rosends]

Therefore, you reject the New Testament as being Holy. Is that correct?

correct

The Judaic view on the Devil/Satan is close to the Christian Gnostic view. In Christian Gnosticism the Devil/Satan is Elohim/God in its Lowest Form. The Satan/Devil is Elohim/God Flesh. Elohim/God wants its Creation to Climb the Ladder to Elohim's/God's Higher Form.

Elohim's/God's Ladder:
Flesh->Soul->Spirit

no, that is not at all connected to any Judaic idea

 

[Bthoth]

I'm saying what ever Religion you practice it Must be with Total Devotion, otherwise it's just Half-Hearted Uncommitted Weak Religion.

Religion is like alcohol: Great in moderation but down right dangerous when abused.

Yes indeed, there is Total Religious Devotion Heathen Atheist. Heathen Atheism is a Religion.

I've not observed that identification before. It appears to almost be an oxymoron.

Every person on the planet is practising a Religion.

i disagree, as many still have no idea what religion is.

Your Elohim/God and your Religion is what you Value most making you get out of bed every morning.

People get out of bed because of being alive. Religion is not the cause.

Really there are only two Religions that are Right-Hand Path or Left-Hand Path.

Another scope that I have not witnessed before.

The Blood Line view on Israel is Racism and Worldly.

Agreed and why i am against the format. Racism is wrong and disgusting.

Racism is the Nature of the World.

Again, you represent very radical information. But with your direct approach, it is not offensive. Thank you.

It's Absolutely True that Really Israel are those that Follow the Rules of the Elohim/God of Israel and Nobody else. You Cannot be Israel given that you do Not follow the Rules of the Elohim/God of Israel.

Interesting. Israel is not my favorite location, as i have too many decades of life, watching too many atrocities. Judaism on the other hand is one of my favorite frameworks of religious foundation. I have learned to divide to 2.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

That's your perspective. The World Being Racist is a Fact. The English/Germans are the Dominant Racists with the Nazi-KKK.

I Am a Follower of Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ. Is Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ Racist?

No, Jesus isn't racist - you're the racist! Who cares what the world is, Christians aren't supposed to follow the world. Christians are supposed to be people of the spirit, not flesh.