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Who Or What Is Israel?

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Then you should see my point. The disobedient are not the good. God requires keeping the commandments.
I agree that keeping Jewish law is obligatory for Jews, but it is not related to who is a Jew.
Is that what israel is of ezek 22? Funny, the chapter calls israel dross,
You like to repeat this. Is there a reason you are so focused on the negative side of the People of Israel?

I'm curious what you think about the book of Hosea, where God teaches that he is faithful to Israel even Israel is not faithful to him.
not Jew or Jewish.
That's because the term Jew (Yehudi) did not exist until the Babylonian captivity, to refer to all those from the Kingdom of Judah who were taken prisoner.
I know, you keep writing that. I like Judaism, the religion, because of the personal responsibility that the literature teaches. I could see why so much favor by god for the folk that keep the commandments. You?
Me personally? I'm a religious Jew, conservative movement. I keep the commandments. But my Jewish identity does not rest on that.
You like telling me, that Jews are a tribe. Yet you do not honor the persons for keeping the commandments as even relevant.'
It's important. It's just not related.
= It's not a tribe
You are mistaken. Were the Moabites also a religion? Were the Jebusites also a religion? No, all of these various Peoples were tribal.
Israel did not exist prior to 1947
You are deliberately obfuscating. We are in no way discussing the modern nation state of Israel. I quite specifically said "People of Israel" which means something quite different from Israeli.
I am wondering if you are also one of those that use the term christian-Jew?
I only use it reluctantly. Apostates do exist. There are Christians who are technically Jews, even though they have turned their back on their people. The former Cardinal Lustiger of Paris would be an example of a famous Jew who was a Christian.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Are you saying that you have to be a Citizen of Israel to be an Israeli?
Yes.
Israeli--citizen of Israel. Could be Jew, Arab, Russian, etc. Jews who are not citizens of Israel, such as myself, are not Israeli.
Israelite--a member of the people of Israel, aka a Hebrew, a Jew
 

Elihoenai

Well-Known Member
not according to Judaism. You must have learned that from one of your false teachers because it isn't in the text.
1 Peter 5:8

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:



Remember that Being Christian Gnostic I'm an Outcast from Christendom, therefore, Not under the Authority of any Teacher, Priest or Pastor like yourself. The Devil/Satan Being the Adversary of Elohim/God is the teaching of the Holy Scriptures/Bible.

What is the teaching in Judaism about the Devil/Satan? What do they teach you in Judaism about Genesis 3? Is the Serpent the same as the Satan/Devil in Judaism?
 

Elihoenai

Well-Known Member
Sure..... it is why, I often ask, where are the writings by the boss so everyone can see for themselves?
All Writings are Elohim/God/Boss Writings. I See Elohim/God Everywhere and in Everything. Elohim/God is Good and Evil. The Writings of Elohim/God Inspire to do Good or to do Evil.







Are you just being funny or do you actually see people as having different rules? Based on what labels? It's hard in today's world to trust the variety of opinions. For example: the LBGT community, per that setting, anyone can be anything and ya have to accept it.
This is a serious discussion and no jokes are being made. Nobody has to accept anything. you Must accept only your Religion/Values and Totally Reject other Contrary Religions/Values to be Sincere.
 

Elihoenai

Well-Known Member
I left the words,
I promote Total Religious Devotion. You are making it appears as if the writer is against Total Religious Devotion.







Not really changing, just putting a line through what was flagrant.

You can be totally devoted and be wrong too.
Can you do that under your name. Doing under your name is legitimate. It's Flagrant/Offensive to you. I have a totally different perspective from you as you appear to be an Heathen Atheist by your behaviour.









I did not do a falsely, As I left it with a line through a few words. Since it bugs you, I will not do it to your comments again.
Evidently we have different Moral Standards. The practitioners of Judaism in this thread have changed my sentences also and I told them the same thing about dealing falsely. It's Not what I wrote or crossed out. It's your perspective. Thank you for agreeing to Challenge my writings under your own name.








NO and NO.

I find pantheism to be a good fit but I will condemn any that try to label me, to fit their ridiculous attempts to insult.
Are you Religious or are you against Religion?
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
1 Peter 5:8

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:



Remember that Being Christian Gnostic I'm an Outcast from Christendom, therefore, Not under the Authority of any Teacher, Priest or Pastor like yourself. The Devil/Satan Being the Adversary of Elohim/God is the teaching of the Holy Scriptures/Bible.

What is the teaching in Judaism about the Devil/Satan? What do they teach you in Judaism about Genesis 3? Is the Serpent the same as the Satan/Devil in Judaism?
Since when is 1 Peter part of Jewish sacred texts?
 

Elihoenai

Well-Known Member
With that frame as reference, then the HONEST can identify which lies and liars to step on and only the honest can even make that choice.

See how that works. Anyone can make and apply rules to fit their mind set.. Where I am sickened is by the scope that some parties are claimed to be an authority because they said so.
Yes, that is how it works. All groups whether Religious or Non-Religious Must have Authorities that Determine the Rules that makes you a member of the Group. Otherwise the Group would lose their Identity.
 

Elihoenai

Well-Known Member
I'm not talking about a religion. I'm talking about a tribe. Only the tribe gets to determine who is a member of the tribe. It is the worst sort of arrogance for an outsider to think they have anything to say about it.
Well your perspective about Others determining who is a Jew does not change the Fact that is happening and will continue to happen. You cannot do anything about it accept voice disapproval. Christians Being Jews is the teaching of the New Testament.
 

Elihoenai

Well-Known Member
Per Ezekiel 36:19, Israel, or in other words, the house of Israel, "mountains of Israel" is "scattered among the nations". The British are only one among the many nations. As for "Israel" in the form of Joseph, Joseph had two sons, one of which took on the title of Israel. Following the time of Solomon, Judah and Israel (Ephraim), who was composed of 10 tribes, were separated, and eventually the 10 tribes were dispersed among the nations. It is at the end of the age, when the stick of Joseph (Israel) will be combined with the stick of Judah, under the rule of David. (Ez 37), when they will observe "all of my ordinances". That has not happened as of 11 AM on the 12/3/2023.
Israel Rebelled Against the Elohim/God of Israel and Must Return from the Nations whither Elohim/God has Scattered them.
 

Elihoenai

Well-Known Member
Ah, you're a racist. So no one has any reason to listen to anything you say. Can't let this just be glossed over and lost in the thread.
That's your perspective. The World Being Racist is a Fact. The English/Germans are the Dominant Racists with the Nazi-KKK.

I Am a Follower of Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ. Is Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ Racist?
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
1 Peter 5:8

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
quoting texts that have no place in Judaism doesn't do anything to effect Jewish belief.
The Devil/Satan Being the Adversary of Elohim/God is the teaching of the Holy Scriptures/Bible.
your connecting "the adversary" to "the devil" is not in any scripture I see as holy.
What is the teaching in Judaism about the Devil/Satan? What do they teach you in Judaism about Genesis 3? Is the Serpent the same as the Satan/Devil in Judaism?
The adversary is an angel of God who does God's bidding and that includes trying to get people to sin and then accusing them once they sin.

 

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
I agree that keeping Jewish law is obligatory for Jews, but it is not related to who is a Jew.
Not related? Then what is torah for? Do you believe that torah is for separating people or teaching personal responsibility?
You like to repeat this. Is there a reason you are so focused on the negative side of the People of Israel?
Israel is the reason the topic is on forefront of the rf. It's sure not because of tribe.
I'm curious what you think about the book of Hosea, where God teaches that he is faithful to Israel even Israel is not faithful to him.
And I would ask; would god approve of your explanation, that the blood line is more important than keeping the rules?
That's because the term Jew (Yehudi) did not exist until the Babylonian captivity, to refer to all those from the Kingdom of Judah who were taken prisoner.
Just as israel did not exist prior to 1947. That part is fact. The taking a king of judah does not make a bloodline captive.
Me personally? I'm a religious Jew, conservative movement. I keep the commandments.
???? Lot's of questions come to mind.
But my Jewish identity does not rest on that.
Identity is not important. For example: the LBGT. Are you suggesting the self identity as the importance?
It's important. It's just not related.
Cute. The very reason the abrahamic belief systems are so good, is the rules, the commandments, not the tribe.

Apparently the tribe has ruined the comprehension of what the dialogue is even for.
You are mistaken. Were the Moabites also a religion? Were the Jebusites also a religion? No, all of these various Peoples were tribal.
Thanks as you perfect exactly what I am getting at; the lineage/tribe is NOT the importance. It's about keeping the rules.
You are deliberately obfuscating. We are in no way discussing the modern nation state of Israel. I quite specifically said "People of Israel" which means something quite different from Israeli.
You are hilarious how you change/convert your opinion.
When you end using the term as important, then I will stop addressing the truth as relevant.
I only use it reluctantly. Apostates do exist. There are Christians who are technically Jews, even though they have turned their back on their people. The former Cardinal Lustiger of Paris would be an example of a famous Jew who was a Christian.
That's what so funny. The identifier of the blood line is not the importance. The person choosing what to believe and sustain in personal responsibility is what will be judged.
 

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
Yes.
Israeli--citizen of Israel. Could be Jew, Arab, Russian, etc. Jews who are not citizens of Israel, such as myself, are not Israeli.
I know..... So why would anyone condemn the Jews as israeli?

Judaism is a religion, not a state or tribe.
Israelite--a member of the people of Israel, aka a Hebrew, a Jew
Hebrew is a language
Israel is a state.

Judaism is a religion.

Will your favorite color be the next identifier?
 

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
Yes, that is how it works. All groups whether Religious or Non-Religious Must have Authorities that Determine the Rules that makes you a member of the Group. Otherwise the Group would lose their Identity.
SO what changed within the religious identifier of 'chosen ones'?

I find that the good chose to follow the rules and the other choose not to.

If a god was choosing which are good and which are not, how is does that work?
 

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
I promote Total Religious Devotion. You are making it appears as if the writer is against Total Religious Devotion.
TDR has huge ambiguity.
Can you do that under your name. Doing under your name is legitimate. It's Flagrant/Offensive to you. I have a totally different perspective from you as you appear to be an Heathen Atheist by your behaviour.
IS there TDR for heathen atheist?
Are you Religious or are you against Religion?
The flagrance in using the term religion is why there is so many tangents.

For example: a few of the claimant jews here on this channel, put blood line as the importance and yet torah suggests that the very reason god preferred a certain group is because they followed the rules.

The ambiguity is huge and based on self identity, rather than religion.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Someone else told me that. I then wonder, if israel was dross back then and wiped out by god. Why would anyone want to make another one? Then to read the chapter, it is weird that the oppression and idolatry for the city of blood is happening NOW (again?)

Funny, the state of israel did not exist back then. It opened in 1947. Have you ever seen the flag?



I can comprehend that. If the extremist touch that mount, I am guessing a melting could actually occur.

Chapt 22 suggested the dross (israel) will be melted.

That could be samson option of the weak minded (israel)

Funny, that's just about the number of israelis that claim to be Jews now. It's one reason, i am so glad that the majority of claiming Jews, DO NOT live in israel. I like jews too much to ever want them to end up facing the condemnation of Ezek 22.

Dan 7:8? I have considered my self the little horny one a few times over.

WW2 was horrible for Jews. And since israel did not exist prior to 1947, I dont see Ezek 22 having occurred.

What the pre-emptive strikes of israel and the land grab of 67'

The nations have already condemned israel for the illegal occupation of jerusalem (the city of blood). See the plethora of UN resolutions.

The boss is not going to do anything against the world to defend that apartheid. If anything, the fools of idolatry that must have that mount, will do the stupid and mess with that gold domed building and end up melted, then react with samson option (self destruction of themselves and firing upon everyone else) But it wont be by god

I know, the holy of holies is "the name" not some stupid location on a hill.

I had been trying to explain that for decades but the rude get upset that I dont speak their language.
As for preemptive strikes, what about 1973 and 7 Oct (feast of Sukkot) 2023, with the rape and killing of women and children. As for the refinement (melting) of Judah, first the Levites will be refined as silver, and then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be accepted (Malachi 3:3). As for the melting referred to in Zech 14:12, that refers to the nations surrounding Jerusalem, which is in line with the description stated during the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima. As for the existence of Israel, the Jews, the house of Judah, by way of the Zionist, were given access to the area of Judea, the land given to Jacob/Israel (Ex 37:25), by way of God, and by way of the British Balfour declaration of 1917 for the Jewish part in the WWI war effort, and the donated new process of producing explosives. And the land of Israel was specified in Ez 36:17. As for the Law, the law of Jubilee, the land shall return to Israel every 50 Years, on the feast of Jubilee. Note that land was returned in 1973 and 50 years later in 2023 more land will be returned. As for the nations and their Progressive pantheist religions, and their multitude of plagues (Rev 18:4), well, let us say, that it will not end well. As for number of Jews, well, there are more Jews in the U.S. than in Israel, and that in the range of 7 million. As for the existance of Israel, Jacob was a son of Isaac, and he was given the name of Israel, a name he passed to his son Joseph, and his name was passed to his son Ephraim, and his name was attached to the 10 northern tribes, who have been scattered among the nations, and are referred to as the house of Israel. The original name Israel was attached to all 12 tribes plus Levi before the breakup following the time of Solomon. The two houses will be reunited on the land given to Jacob with David as their king (Ez 37). The present state of "Israel" is part of the original land of Israel.
 
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