Who Or What Is Israel?

[2ndpillar]

Where are members of the Ten Lost Tribes now? Are the British the Ten Lost Tribes?

Per Ezekiel 36:19, Israel, or in other words, the house of Israel, "mountains of Israel" is "scattered among the nations". The British are only one among the many nations. As for "Israel" in the form of Joseph, Joseph had two sons, one of which took on the title of Israel. Following the time of Solomon, Judah and Israel (Ephraim), who was composed of 10 tribes, were separated, and eventually the 10 tribes were dispersed among the nations. It is at the end of the age, when the stick of Joseph (Israel) will be combined with the stick of Judah, under the rule of David. (Ez 37), when they will observe "all of my ordinances". That has not happened as of 11 AM on the 12/3/2023.

 

[Bthoth]

I'm not talking about a religion. I'm talking about a tribe. Only the tribe gets to determine who is a member of the tribe. It is the worst sort of arrogance for an outsider to think they have anything to say about it.

Judaism is a religion. Not a tribe / Lineage. Trying to divide people by using the tribal angle is very strange but I can see how the evolution developed.

 

[Bthoth]

Per Ezekiel 36:19, Israel, or in other words, the house of Israel, "mountains of Israel" is "scattered among the nations". The British are only one among the many nations. As for "Israel" in the form of Joseph, Joseph had two sons, one of which took on the title of Israel. Following the time of Solomon, Judah and Israel (Ephraim), who was composed of 10 tribes, were separated, and eventually the 10 tribes were dispersed among the nations. It is at the end of the age, when the stick of Joseph (Israel) will be combined with the stick of Judah, under the rule of David. (Ez 37), when they will observe "all of my ordinances". That has not happened as of 11 AM on the 12/3/2023.

nor the flesh to bones. The confusion of what the old prophecies represent is vast.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Matthew 28:18

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.


It's not Racist to state facts. The English/Germans have demonstrated Racial Superiority with the British Empire, Commonwealth of Nations and Domination of the United States. This English/German Worldly Domination is Ordained by Elohim/God. Racism is Integral to Elohim's/God's Earthly Kingdom.


1953. Coronation of Queen Elizabeth II: 'The Crowning Ceremony'

Ah, you're a racist. So no one has any reason to listen to anything you say. Can't let this just be glossed over and lost in the thread.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Judaism is a religion. Not a tribe / Lineage. Trying to divide people by using the tribal angle is very strange but I can see how the evolution developed.

You are confusing Judaism with Jews. I'm NOT talking about Judaism. I'm talking about JEWS. We've been through this before. The People of Israel are a tribal people, NOT a religion. We HAVE a religion -- some Jews follow that religion, and some don't. And again, ONLY the tribe gets to decide who is a member. Your opinions are irrelevant.

 

[Bthoth]

You are confusing Judaism with Jews. I'm NOT talking about Judaism.

I get it...... You consider Jews a different species of mankind and judaism is not the religion of all Jews.

It's a weird analogy but as you said,"""Your opinions are irrelevant." to you and the few that condemn jews as a different species, rather than human beings like the rest of us.

I'm talking about JEWS. We've been through this before.

I know, you keep trying to force your beliefs upon me

The People of Israel are a tribal people, NOT a religion.

I do not see it that way, as every person is from some kind of tribe from somewhere and Jews to the majority on the earth are a religious adherent of judaism, not some tribal person.

I just looked up: "A Jew is one who practices the Jewish religion, Judaism."

Yes, there are many flavors to the designation of Jew. "The Nazis defined Jews based on ancestry for the purpose of persecution. Anti-Semites have also defined Jews for discriminatory goals."

We HAVE a religion -- some Jews follow that religion, and some don't.

OK..... that is how you see it.

This is a religious forum and the religion of judaism are the few that claim to be Jews. The jew is not designated in the gender or race column of any designation.

And again, ONLY the tribe gets to decide who is a member. Your opinions are irrelevant.

You have said that many times over. Again, I do not have to agree with you nor submit to your system of dividing people based on ancestry.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I get it...... You consider Jews a different species of mankind and judaism is not the religion of all Jews.

How is a tribe a different species? Do you normally go around telling Cherokees they claim to be a different species?

I just looked up: "A Jew is one who practices the Jewish religion, Judaism."

If you had been honest enough to quote the entire wiki paragraph, two sentences later it says this: A Jew is one who is a descendant of the ancient Israelite ethnic group, and therefore is a member of the Jewish people.

Yes, there are many flavors to the designation of Jew. "The Nazis defined Jews based on ancestry for the purpose of persecution. Anti-Semites have also defined Jews for discriminatory goals."

The Nazis don't get to define who is a Jew. Just like you don't. The criteria the Nazis had was incorrect. Again, only halakha gets to determine who is and is not a Jew.

 

[2ndpillar]

nor the flesh to bones. The confusion of what the old prophecies represent is vast.

The "confusion" arises because the prophets such as Ezekiel and Yeshua are not believed, and their testimony nailed to the proverbial cross, and the Commandments are not kept. The Jews are ruled under the traditions of men (Talmud), and the "Christians" are followers of the false prophets, Peter and Paul, along with the message of the "devil" (evil one) (Matthew 13), under the leadership of the current (Pope), and past (Caesars) Pontifex Maximus (priest of the pagan religion). Throw out the Talmud and the teachings of Paul and his followers, and the "confusion" quickly vanishes. The "bones" are representative of the "whole house of Israel" (Rev 17:11), which would be a combined house of Israel with the house of Judah (Rev 37:19). Per Ezekiel, the nations of Rosh and Tubal etc. (Russia, Turkey, and Iran) will be crushed against the mountain of Israel (Ez 39) and become food for the beast of the fields.

 

[Bthoth]

How is a tribe a different species? Do you normally go around telling Cherokees they claim to be a different species?

I dont see religious people as a different anything.
You have used the tribe angle since I showed up. Trying to assimilate the israeli plight with US indigenous folk.

No idea why you even use that form to sustain a religious group. It's as if you consider self-identification as the importance and willing to convert your interpretation where you can find something to grasp onto for consideration.

The religious material does not make a tribe or 12 tribes into a different species or different race of people.

If you had been honest enough to quote the entire wiki paragraph, two sentences later it says this: A Jew is one who is a descendant of the ancient Israelite ethnic group, and therefore is a member of the Jewish people.

I am honest to know that wiki is changed by people, not authorities of actual facts.

The Nazis don't get to define who is a Jew.

Exactly, so i dont accept the idea of Jew as anything other than a religious form.

Just like you don't. The criteria the Nazis had was incorrect.

Exactly.... identifying Israel or Jew as a lineage is just wrong. That model that you are using is how 'they' divided the people and why blood lines were isolated in ww2 and now in israel.

Again, only halakha gets to determine who is and is not a Jew.

About the same as LBGT get to self determine themselves too.

I can see the facsimile of how the model is being used.

 

[Bthoth]

The "confusion" arises because the prophets such as Ezekiel and Yeshua are not believed, and their testimony nailed to the proverbial cross, and the Commandments are not kept. The Jews are ruled under the traditions of men (Talmud), and the "Christians" are followers of the false prophets, Peter and Paul, along with the message of the "devil" (evil one) (Matthew 13), under the leadership of the current (Pope), and past (Caesars) Pontifex Maximus (priest of the pagan religion). Throw out the Talmud and the teachings of Paul and his followers, and the "confusion" quickly vanishes. The "bones" are representative of the "whole house of Israel" (Rev 17:11), which would be a combined house of Israel with the house of Judah (Rev 37:19). Per Ezekiel, the nations of Rosh and Tubal etc. (Russia, Turkey, and Iran) will be crushed against the mountain of Israel (Ez 39) and become food for the beast of the fields.

See Ezek 22 to comprehend the dross (israel). When that chapter is fulfilled, then we can go over what's next.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I dont see religious people as a different anything.

As long as you want to continue discussing Judaism, we have nothing to say to each other. If you ever decide you want to talk about JEWS, we can strike up the conversation again.

 

[Bthoth]

As long as you want to continue discussing Judaism, we have nothing to say to each other. If you ever decide you want to talk about JEWS, we can strike up the conversation again.

Am i guessing that you expect to be right and no one has any say so, since you claim to be Jewish?

The topic is on israel, I do not see Israel as representing Jews as a tribe or religions, just by label (begging to use the label).

between you and I, i differ in the idea of considering Jews as a lineage. It's a religion and why it is even a topic or subject line here on RF.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Am i guessing that you expect to be right and no one has any say so, since you claim to be Jewish?

Not at all. I'm not giving my opinion. I'm stating Jewish law.

 

[Bthoth]

Not at all. I'm not giving my opinion. I'm stating Jewish law.

So jewish law claims you can substantiate tribal designation rather than religious or personal adherence to the commandments?

Meaning do you put the tribe before the commandments as the importance of being jewish?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

So jewish law claims you can substantiate tribal designation rather than religious or personal adherence to the commandments?

Meaning do you put the tribe before the commandments as the importance of being jewish?

That is correct. If I want to designate someone who is following Judaism, I have to attach an adjective: religious Jew, or observant Jew. Just as secular Jew refers to a Jew who is not religious. The word Jew all by itself does not indicate whether the person is religious or not.

 

[Bthoth]

That is correct. If I want to designate someone who is following Judaism, I have to attach an adjective: religious Jew, or observant Jew.

But where in torah does a person become jew without keeping the laws, the commandments?

Just as secular Jew refers to a Jew who is not religious.

So in your view, a jew is not a religious designation or chosen one by god, just a person with a parent that was jew?

The word Jew all by itself does not indicate whether the person is religious or not.

Judaism/jew is a religious designation............. otherwise why is the concept even important on a religious forum?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

But where in torah does a person become jew without keeping the laws, the commandments?

Are you serious? The Tanakh is replete with stories of Jews who were disobedient. There are probalby more disobedient Jews mentioned than obedient jews.

So in your view, a jew is not a religious designation or chosen one by god, just a person with a parent that was jew?

Like I said, it is a tribal designation. By far the most common way to be a jew is to be born of a Jewish mom. However, on rare instances we also adopt outsiders into the People.

Judaism/jew is a religious designation............. otherwise why is the concept even important on a religious forum?

Judaism is a religion. Jew is the member of The People of Israel, a tribal people. Many Jews do not practice Judaism.

 

[2ndpillar]

See Ezek 22 to comprehend the dross (israel). When that chapter is fulfilled, then we can go over what's next.

Ezek 22 is past tense as described in Ezek 23, and the "daughters", Israel and Judah, with respect to Ez 23, have already been dealt with by Assyria and Babylon. The judgment of the end will start with Jacob/Israel, and they will be "chastened justly", but the nations will be destroyed (Jer 30:11). 6 million Jews (harlots) were made "desolate" per Rev 17:16 by way of the horns (rulers) of the beast, such as in the 2nd WW in preparation for the making of the state of Israel in 1948. It is during the 1967 & 73 Israeli war that the surrounding nations were as kindling before the "clans of Judah" (Zech 12:6). Now all that remains is for the nations to come against Jerusalem (Zech 14) before the LORD acts against the nations, which will begin with a great "earthquake". The LORD will not come by reason of any righteousness of Israel, but because of his name (Ez 37:22).

 

[Bthoth]

Are you serious? The Tanakh is replete with stories of Jews who were disobedient.

Then you should see my point. The disobedient are not the good. God requires keeping the commandments.

At mt sinai, god told moses to kill a whole bunch of them. About 3000 if I remember the story right.

There are probalby more disobedient Jews mentioned than obedient jews.

Is that what israel is of ezek 22? Funny, the chapter calls israel dross, not Jew or Jewish.

Like I said, it is a tribal designation.

I know, you keep writing that. I like Judaism, the religion, because of the personal responsibility that the literature teaches. I could see why so much favor by god for the folk that keep the commandments. You?

You like telling me, that Jews are a tribe. Yet you do not honor the persons for keeping the commandments as even relevant.

By far the most common way to be a jew is to be born of a Jewish mom.

Because the parents teach their children the rules (personal responsibility).

However, on rare instances we also adopt outsiders into the People.

If they follow the rules and keep them.

Judaism is a religion.

I know. It's not a tribe or blood line.

Jew is the member of The People of Israel, a tribal people.

Israel did not exist prior to 1947 and just the same there are a whole bunch of Israelis that are not Jew.

Many Jews do not practice Judaism.

I am wondering if you are also one of those that use the term christian-Jew?

Or perhaps you will tell me about the Muslim-Jew next? I would love to meet one.

 

[Bthoth]

Ezek 22 is past tense

Someone else told me that. I then wonder, if israel was dross back then and wiped out by god. Why would anyone want to make another one? Then to read the chapter, it is weird that the oppression and idolatry for the city of blood is happening NOW (again?)

as described in Ezek 23, and the "daughters", Israel and Judah, with respect to Ez 23, have already been dealt with by Assyria and Babylon.

Funny, the state of israel did not exist back then. It opened in 1947. Have you ever seen the flag?

The judgment of the end will start with Jacob/Israel,

I can comprehend that. If the extremist touch that mount, I am guessing a melting could actually occur.

and they will be "chastened justly",

Chapt 22 suggested the dross (israel) will be melted.

but the nations will be destroyed (Jer 30:11).

That could be samson option of the weak minded (israel)

6 million Jews (harlots) were made "desolate" per Rev 17:16

Funny, that's just about the number of israelis that claim to be Jews now. It's one reason, i am so glad that the majority of claiming Jews, DO NOT live in israel. I like jews too much to ever want them to end up facing the condemnation of Ezek 22.

by way of the horns (rulers) of the beast,

Dan 7:8? I have considered my self the little horny one a few times over.

such as in the 2nd WW in preparation for the making of the state of Israel in 1948.

WW2 was horrible for Jews. And since israel did not exist prior to 1947, I dont see Ezek 22 having occurred.

It is during the 1967 & 73 Israeli war that the surrounding nations were as kindling before the "clans of Judah" (Zech 12:6).

What the pre-emptive strikes of israel and the land grab of 67'

Now all that remains is for the nations to come against Jerusalem (Zech 14)

The nations have already condemned israel for the illegal occupation of jerusalem (the city of blood). See the plethora of UN resolutions.

before the LORD acts against the nations, which will begin with a great "earthquake".

The boss is not going to do anything against the world to defend that apartheid. If anything, the fools of idolatry that must have that mount, will do the stupid and mess with that gold domed building and end up melted, then react with samson option (self destruction of themselves and firing upon everyone else) But it wont be by god

The LORD will not come by reason of any righteousness of Israel, but because of his name (Ez 37:22).

I know, the holy of holies is "the name" not some stupid location on a hill.

I had been trying to explain that for decades but the rude get upset that I dont speak their language.