Who were the Christians? De Santis's GOP or Martha's Vineyard plain folk?

[Kenny]

Illegals, I assume you mean.

But you're right: that's not all he's doing. I am not a lawyer and all that, but it seems like he's committed all the required elements of a federal crime:

8 USC 1324: Bringing in and harboring certain aliens


I would say that the bigger problem is a lack of empathy.

Why do you think "unfettered entrance" is a problem?

In the case of a lot of the people coming in irregularly across the US-Mexico border - in particular refugee claimants from places like Guatemala - allowing them entrance is not only not a problem, it's a legal - and I would argue moral - obligation.

8 USC 1324: Bringing in and harboring certain aliens

don't see application.

Unfettered entrance is a problem because:

1) Terrorists can come in
2) Drug cartels can come in
3) Criminals can come in.

Unfettered is a problem because if anybody can come in at any time, we would be a third world country. You have to have the capacity to assimilate and provide support.


That is why we have LEGAL immigration. It is our moral obligation.

 

[F1fan]

I don't believe he is just moving legals. And, of course, the problem of illegals is unfettered entrance, not immigration.

Wht do you as a Christian want to do about it?

Are you fine with migrants coming through checkpoints and filing for asylum, but only agianst those migrants crossing over and not fling? Clarify for us.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Well, well, well, if it isn't the consequences of their own decisions.

So, a tiny taste of what the left has done to the entire southern border for more than a decade?

That's the problem, but we're going to pretend self-awareness and self-reflection aren't things I guess.

It is in the nature of all living creatures to try and survive, and it is in the nature of most living creatures to try to protect their young. The places many migrants are coming from are so dangerous, many feel there is no other hope than finding somewhere else to be. That is to say, they feel their decisions have been forced upon them.

Now I grant, there is no law saying that a rich nation has to put up a single one of the. But if that nation is also hell-bent on making sure everybody knows it's a "Christian nation," I rather think they would entertain at least a tiny hint of that compassion that Christ encouraged.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Some, but seriously the let’s celebrate sin, rob people and butcher children camp on the other side has no room to cast stones.

And which "sins" are being celebrated by this "other side" that you hate so much? Who is being robbed? Which children are being butchered?

 

[Truth in love]

Really.

Who runs the baby butcher business?

who keeps taking money from those who work to give it to those that often do not?

who is setting killers back on the street to kill again?
Who do is pushing to normalize childhood rape?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

8 USC 1324: Bringing in and harboring certain aliens

don't see application.

Knowingly transporting illegal aliens in order to help them stay in the country is a federal crime.

Unfettered entrance is a problem because:

1) Terrorists can come in
2) Drug cartels can come in
3) Criminals can come in.

Unfettered is a problem because if anybody can come in at any time, we would be a third world country. You have to have the capacity to assimilate and provide support.


That is why we have LEGAL immigration. It is our moral obligation.

So provide that capacity for support, then.

A refugee claimant crossing into the US outside of a border crossing is still immigrating legally. The law on this allows people to cross irregularly.

If they can get in, then they're entitled to a hearing to confirm whether their claim of refugee status meets the standard. While they're waiting for their hearing, they're entitled to be accommodated - NOT IMPRISONED - comfortably and reasonably, including things like education for children.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

8 USC 1324: Bringing in and harboring certain aliens

don't see application.

Unfettered entrance is a problem because:

1) Terrorists can come in
2) Drug cartels can come in
3) Criminals can come in.

Unfettered is a problem because if anybody can come in at any time, we would be a third world country. You have to have the capacity to assimilate and provide support.


That is why we have LEGAL immigration. It is our moral obligation.

Another thing, not just for you, but for all of the Christians complaining in this thread:

The hypocrisy and cowardice I'm seeing in this thread is at the same time mind-boggling but also what I've come to expect from the Christian right.

Listen to yourselves. You're being confronted with people who are in such desperate need that they're willing to risk imprisonment or death for themselves and their children, and instead of stepping up to help, you whine:

"What if not everyone who we help absolutely needs it?" Help them anyway.

"What if I disagree with the people I'm helping?" Help them anyway.

"What if I'm putting myself at risk by helping them?" Help them anyway.

"What if helping them would reduce my own wealth?" Give from your poverty, trust in God to provide for you, and help them anyway.

Seriously. At least pretend like you care about the teachings of Jesus in the Gospels.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Some, but seriously the let’s celebrate sin, rob people and butcher children camp on the other side has no room to cast stones.

But Christians are those who supposedly are trying to be better, but they are not using Jesus' example. Those who are not Christian obviously are not going to go by the bible's advice, good or bad. And...Christians are those who tend to get the most abortions, since most people are still Christian in this country. As things change, this will most likely change as well. Christians are also the majority of folks in jail. Please do not pretend that Christians are more moral than anyone else. They are not. I will say that LDS folks tend to try to do better overall, better than Catholics and especially better than evangelicals.

 

[Truth in love]

But Christians are those who supposedly are trying to be better, but they are not using Jesus' example. Those who are not Christian obviously are not going to go by the bible's advice, good or bad. And...Christians are those who tend to get the most abortions, since most people are still Christian in this country. As things change, this will most likely change as well. Christians are also the majority of folks in jail. Please do not pretend that Christians are more moral than anyone else. They are not.

That is a very broad accusations

now some Christians are jerks, but the “you did not do exactly what I wish you would therefore are a bad Christian”. This is absurd. As if the all teachings of a Christ can be boiled down to a single political idea.

 

[Sand Dancer]

It is in the nature of all living creatures to try and survive, and it is in the nature of most living creatures to try to protect their young. The places many migrants are coming from are so dangerous, many feel there is no other hope than finding somewhere else to be. That is to say, they feel their decisions have been forced upon them.

Now I grant, there is no law saying that a rich nation has to put up a single one of the. But if that nation is also hell-bent on making sure everybody knows it's a "Christian nation," I rather think they would entertain at least a tiny hint of that compassion that Christ encouraged.

If Christians actually went by the good things in the Bible, this country would rock. So many misuse the Bible, doing the bad things but not the good.

 

[Sand Dancer]

That is a very broad accusations

now some Christians are jerks, but the “you did not do exactly what I wish you would therefore are a bad Christian”. This is absurd. As if the all teachings of a Christ can be boiled down to a single political idea.

Yes, I do not want to use a broad brush stroke, but many of the problems stem from evangelicals, and of course not all of them. There are evangelicals on the right and left side. And Jesus' teachings are politically on the left and right, so both sides do not adhere to all of his teachings. I added to my previous comment, in case you didn't see.

 

[Father Heathen]

Really.

Who runs the baby butcher business?

who keeps taking money from those who work to give it to those that often do not?

who is setting killers back on the street to kill again?
Who do is pushing to normalize childhood rape?

You only repeated the same melodramatic hyperbole, which doesn't deserve serious consideration.

 

[F1fan]

It is in the nature of all living creatures to try and survive, and it is in the nature of most living creatures to try to protect their young. The places many migrants are coming from are so dangerous, many feel there is no other hope than finding somewhere else to be. That is to say, they feel their decisions have been forced upon them.

No one has a choice where they are born, nor who they are born to. It is a lottery of life. Those growing up in dangerous places have always migrated to safer places. The USA is vastly safer and has a robust economy that can support these people. Even with what DeSantis, and prior with Trump, their cruelty is short lived and decent people rise to their moral duty and help migrants find shelter and food. This includes people of many faiths who help, the decent people. What is curious is why there are any Christians among those who harm and debase these migrants. Sure, there is the law, but Christians are supposed to have a moral core that guides their belief and attitudes, and duty to other people, as Jesus taught.

Now I grant, there is no law saying that a rich nation has to put up a single one of the. But if that nation is also hell-bent on making sure everybody knows it's a "Christian nation," I rather think they would entertain at least a tiny hint of that compassion that Christ encouraged.

All the pride, none of the duty.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Really.

Who runs the baby butcher business?

who keeps taking money from those who work to give it to those that often do not?

who is setting killers back on the street to kill again?
Who do is pushing to normalize childhood rape?

Which party does not want to implement what actually reduces abortions? The right. They oppose sex ed in schools, access to birth control, help with pregnancy cost and child care costs. More women would parent if they had help. This of course means revamping the child support system. So many men get away with not being financially responsible.

 

[Truth in love]

Yes, I do not want to use a broad brush stroke, but many of the problems stem from evangelicals, and of course not all of them. There are evangelicals on the right and left side. And Jesus' teachings are politically on the left and right, so both sides do not adhere to all of his teachings. I added to my previous comment, in case you didn't see.

Where is the Bible did Jesus direct the creation of a monster government that robs its people?

where did he say insult and be violent to your neighbor?

I can’t find those verses but I see little else from the Left (yes the war mongering on the right is messed up)

both sides tend to be power hungry and judgy

 

[Truth in love]

You only repeated the same melodramatic hyperbole, which doesn't deserve serious consideration.

So in short only the information you like is useful?

okay if you can’t actually discuss the topic I’ll stop wasting my time

 

[Truth in love]

Which party does not want to implement what actually reduces abortions? The right. They oppose sex ed in schools, access to birth control, help with pregnancy cost and child care costs. More women would parent if they had help. This of course means revamping the child support system. So many men get away with not being financially responsible.

The right has plans to reduce abortions, self control and adoptions are both well supported.

Sex Ed in school has been shown many times to be less than helpful in changing behaviors.

stable family work well.

many on the right give money and time to help. It’s not federal government or nothing.

I don’t know anyone on the right who objects to men supporting their kids that a core value.


Much needs to be done, but not by the government

 

[Father Heathen]

If Christians actually went by the good things in the Bible, this country would rock. So many misuse the Bible, doing the bad things but not the good.

It seems most Christians see the Bible as a weapon to persecute others with rather than as a guide to live by. The only sin that concerns them is others', not their own.

 

[metis]

Conservative Christians forgot about Christ.

I hate to say this, but more and more I'm believing you are right as they seem to be much more into secular right-wing politics than Jesus' Gospel.

 

[Father Heathen]

So in short only the information you like is useful?

I don't consider straw men and hyperbole to be valid info. Speak sensibly and then substantiate your assertions.

okay if you can’t actually discuss the topic I’ll stop wasting my time

I'm happy to discuss anything, but not when it's done disingenuously and in bad faith.