Why are there still Monkeys?

[metis]

The ToE is a wholly and completely naturalistic theory, so anyone that accepts it, accepts naturalism and I prefer to refer to them as naturalists to that respect.

False. What you're ignoring are the millions of theistic evolutionists. Matter of fact, it mostly is just Muslems and fundamentalist Protestants that don't accept evolution on religious grounds.

 

[Parsimony]

The ToE is a wholly and completely naturalistic theory, so anyone that accepts it, accepts naturalism and I prefer to refer to them as naturalists to that respect.

The germ theory of disease is also a naturalistic theory, since it only relies on physical phenomena to explain it. Yet plenty of people, theists and atheists alike, accept it. Same thing with evolutionary theory. It is accepted by both theists and atheists. I believe in God while accepting evolution to be true. Do you think I'm some kind of figment of your imagination?

 

[FearGod]

False. What you're ignoring are the millions of theistic evolutionists. Matter of fact, it mostly is just Muslems and fundamentalist Protestants that don't accept evolution on religious grounds.

That is a lie, Muslims accept evolution as guided by God and not randomly happening.

[youtube]g66o9Pkyq08[/youtube]
What does Islam say about the evolution theory? - Q&A - Abdur-Raheem Green - YouTube

[youtube]Ydlrg7zFP6w[/youtube]
The Quran & Evolution: Thoughts from a Believing, Rational Muslim - Dr. Yasir Qadhi | 26th May 2013 - YouTube

[youtube]70KuB-Ig8So[/youtube]
Evolution was an Islamic Theory Before Darwin was Even Born - YouTube

 

[Bunyip]

That is a lie, Muslims accept evolution as guided by God and not randomly happening.

[youtube]g66o9Pkyq08[/youtube]
What does Islam say about the evolution theory? - Q&A - Abdur-Raheem Green - YouTube

[youtube]Ydlrg7zFP6w[/youtube]
The Quran & Evolution: Thoughts from a Believing, Rational Muslim - Dr. Yasir Qadhi | 26th May 2013 - YouTube

[youtube]70KuB-Ig8So[/youtube]
Evolution was an Islamic Theory Before Darwin was Even Born - YouTube

Well that's good, because science does not think that evolution is random either.

 

[MD]

^^^ This. So This!

 

[outhouse]

^^^ This. So This!

Your always so helpful.

 

[MD]

Your always so helpful.

I believe you meant to say 'You're'

 

[johnhanks]

Please tell us, which model of evolution is a fact, the tree model that the OP shows, or the web model that is the emerging model?

You have told us many times that what you call the tree model of evolution is discredited, and that "naturalists" are heatedly debating the emerging web model. I have asked you almost as many times to link us to where this furious debate is taking place (and also to explain to us your own understanding of what the web model entails). Any chance of your doing so this time?

 

[Smart_Guy]

Wait, I managed to get the real answer to why monkeys are still there. The zoo. Yes, we need monkeys in the zoo. I mean, it is common sense, right? The zoo is nothing without monkeys. Oh, I mean real monkeys, not deformed monkeys, if you know what I mean!

 

[Mycroft]

I believe you meant to say 'You're'

And with no colon or full stop!!

 

[metis]

That is a lie, Muslims accept evolution as guided by God and not randomly happening.

Sorry, but the reality is much more mixed:

Islamic views on evolution are diverse, ranging from theistic evolution to creationism. Throughout history, some Muslim thinkers have proposed and accepted elements of the theory of evolution, while believing in the supremacy of God in the process. In modern times, some Muslims have rejected evolution, and teaching it is banned in some countries. The underlying issue is that Adamic descent of human beings is considered to be unsupported by modern biological anthropology and empirical evidence. One modern scholar, Usaama al-Azami, suggested that both narratives of creation and of evolution, as understood by modern science, may be believed by modern Muslims as addressing two different kinds of truth, the revealed and the empirical. -- Islamic views on evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [underlining is mine]

 

[FearGod]

Sorry, but the reality is much more mixed:

Islamic views on evolution are diverse, ranging from theistic evolution to creationism. Throughout history, some Muslim thinkers have proposed and accepted elements of the theory of evolution, while believing in the supremacy of God in the process. In modern times, some Muslims have rejected evolution, and teaching it is banned in some countries. The underlying issue is that Adamic descent of human beings is considered to be unsupported by modern biological anthropology and empirical evidence. One modern scholar, Usaama al-Azami, suggested that both narratives of creation and of evolution, as understood by modern science, may be believed by modern Muslims as addressing two different kinds of truth, the revealed and the empirical. -- Islamic views on evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [underlining is mine]

That wasn't your saying at first time.

You have painted all Muslims with the same brush in your previous post.

Creation doesn't mean that there were no previous creations,we are creation of God and we were developed in the mothers wombs and God can bring a new creation and to let the previous creation to extinct.

Your Lord is Free of all wants; (He is) the Lord of Mercy. If He wants, He can wipe you out, and have another people _ whomever He wants _ succeed you, just as He raised you from the genes of a different nation.(6:133)

 

[ruffen]

That wasn't your saying at first time.

You have painted all Muslims with the same brush in your previous post.

Creation doesn't mean that there were no previous creations,we are creation of God and we were developed in the mothers wombs and God can bring a new creation and to let the previous creation to extinct.

Your Lord is Free of all wants; (He is) the Lord of Mercy. If He wants, He can wipe you out, and have another people _ whomever He wants _ succeed you, just as He raised you from the genes of a different nation.(6:133)

But doesn't the Quran say that the Lord created Adam directly, not from previous species, but as a finished human? Quran knowledge is not my strongest side, so please correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[metis]

That wasn't your saying at first time.

You have painted all Muslims with the same brush in your previous post.

Creation doesn't mean that there were no previous creations,we are creation of God and we were developed in the mothers wombs and God can bring a new creation and to let the previous creation to extinct.

Your Lord is Free of all wants; (He is) the Lord of Mercy. If He wants, He can wipe you out, and have another people _ whomever He wants _ succeed you, just as He raised you from the genes of a different nation.(6:133)

I would assume that most people wouldn't take it that I would mean literally all Muslems, nor all fundamentalist Protestants. But notice that you did exactly the same with your statement, and yet I doubt if you would tell yourself that you told a lie: "That is a lie, Muslims accept evolution as guided by God and not randomly happening.". [my underline] Sorry, but not all Muslems accept evolution.

And you could have said that I made a "mistake" instead of telling a "lie", which implies to me that maybe you lie so often that you believe everyone else is always lying?

 

[FearGod]

But doesn't the Quran say that the Lord created Adam directly, not from previous species, but as a finished human? Quran knowledge is not my strongest side, so please correct me if i'm wrong.

God says that we are his creation.

Does that mean he created me and you directly ?

He created man from a hanging mass (clinging) like a leech (to the mother’s womb).{96:2)

 

[FearGod]

I would assume that most people wouldn't take it that I would mean literally all Muslems, nor all fundamentalist Protestants. But notice that you did exactly the same with your statement, and yet I doubt if you would tell yourself that you told a lie: "That is a lie, Muslims accept evolution as guided by God and not randomly happening.". [my underline] Sorry, but not all Muslems accept evolution.

And you could have said that I made a "mistake" instead of telling a "lie", which implies to me that maybe you lie so often that you believe everyone else is always lying?

All Muslims believe that evolution is guided by God and not by randomness,they believe that God created humans and not by randomness,accidents and chances.

I have already showed you that evolution were studied and searched by Muslim scientists,and yes they don't believe including me about your stupid model of evolution.

i am afraid you have difficulties in analyzing words

 

[metis]

All Muslims believe that evolution is guided by God and not by randomness,they believe that God created humans and not by randomness,accidents and chances.

I have already showed you that evolution were studied and searched by Muslim scientists,and yes they don't believe including me about your stupid model of evolution.

i am afraid you have difficulties in analyzing words

Now it is you who are "lying" since "all Muslems believe that evolution is guided by God" is simply wrong (see my link a couple of posts ago). Secondly, to refer to my supposed "stupid model of evolution" speaks highly of your ignorance about me since you really don't know what I believe in dealing with this area.

And "I'm afraid you have difficulties in analyzing words" right back at ya, as you can't even see the utter hypocrisy in what you wrote.

Since you know so little about even what your fellow Muslems believe, essentially claiming that they believe as you do that I showed you is not true with many, and since you seem to lack even basic decency by using accusatory words like "lie" and "stupid", I think our conversation just came to an end. Post whatever you want, but I'd rather discuss such matters with those who act more like moral adults.

 

[Valjean]

There are just two possibilities. Either a thing happens by magic or it happens by mechanism; magic 'poofing' vs cause and effect.

There are physical laws which explain the mechanisms by which things happen. 'Goddidit' implies God magically overrode the very laws He, Himself put into place.
Why would He have to do that, unless His design were defective?

Natural selection/evolution implies a well-designed Universe, but makes God invisible, in fact, unnecessary.
Magic provides evidence of intervention but implies a defectively designed universe.

 

[FearGod]

Now it is you who are "lying" since "all Muslems believe that evolution is guided by God" is simply wrong (see my link a couple of posts ago). Secondly, to refer to my supposed "stupid model of evolution" speaks highly of your ignorance about me since you really don't know what I believe in dealing with this area.

And "I'm afraid you have difficulties in analyzing words" right back at ya, as you can't even see the utter hypocrisy in what you wrote.

Since you know so little about even what your fellow Muslems believe, essentially claiming that they believe as you do that I showed you is not true with many, and since you seem to lack even basic decency by using accusatory words like "lie" and "stupid", I think our conversation just came to an end. Post whatever you want, but I'd rather discuss such matters with those who act more like moral adults.

Exactly as all atheists believe that evolution doesn't need God, all Muslims believe that evolution is managed and directed by God.

We believe God is the creator,all muslims believe so and similarly all atheists believe that creations naturally happening with no need for God.

That is one of your sayings

Yes, creationists have answers alright, but just having answers doesn't mean they're correct answers. Between scientific "answers" and creationist "answers", I'll take the former, thank you.

I don't know what a jewish reform.renewal means but from its name i guess it is human made religion as religion can't be modified according to ones mood and will.

Finally, Where did i say "some Muslims", i said Muslims believe in evolution that guided and managed by God,that is a fact and not a lie but the the lie were yours when you said Muslims deny evolution,if your model of evolution according to your reform Judaism then yes,no Muslim will agree with.

 

[idav]

There are just two possibilities. Either a thing happens by magic or it happens by mechanism; magic 'poofing' vs cause and effect.

There are physical laws which explain the mechanisms by which things happen. 'Goddidit' implies God magically overrode the very laws He, Himself put into place.
Why would He have to do that, unless His design were defective?

Natural selection/evolution implies a well-designed Universe, but makes God unnecessary and invisible.
Magic provides evidence of intervention but implies a defectively designed universe.

Hmm, a sort of catch 22 there. God is unnecessary or incompetent, interesting. To me, evolution being self designed, adaptive does seem its a good system, but god being unnecessary for that isn't all together clear. Nature would appear to be an unintelligent designer.