Why are White People the ones who get called racists?

[Alceste]

So is the Ásatrú religion just a cover for white supremacy? Just because Nazis have tried to co-opt Norse mythology doesn't necessarily make someone who's fascinated with Norse mythology a Nazi by association. Also, I agree with most of the points raised in the original post. Am I subconsciously a racist?

I'm not going to argue with you. I'm simply calling it as I see it. Only Klaufi knows how many white supremacist forums and newsletters he peruses when he's not here, if any.

As for whether or not you are a "subconscious racist", I pretty much think we all are. It's part of our genetic make-up to identify with a social group and divide the world into "us" and "them". I don't think we can control that. We can control what we do about it, and we can control whether or not we have any integrity. Being mistrustful of the "other" is an innate characteristic of human psychology. Getting swept up in white nationalist subculture and lying about yourself in an effort to propagate your racist views is optional.

 

[Reverend Rick]

As for whether or not you are a "subconscious racist", I pretty much think we all are. It's part of our genetic make-up to identify with a social group and divide the world into "us" and "them". I don't think we can control that. We can control what we do about it, and we can control whether or not we have any integrity. Being mistrustful of the "other" is an innate characteristic of human psychology. Getting swept up in white nationalist subculture and lying about yourself in an effort to propagate your racist views is optional.

:clap

 

[Revasser]

No, I responded to the topic first, then expressed my incredulity vis a vis the purported context of these musings. Given that the poster's avatar is a white supremacist symbol, as is his "location", and that the post in question smacks of white supremacist culture (as encountered on stormfront and similar forums), I find it less than likely that the first time it occurred to him that there might be a double standard regarding racism was spontaneously, in the middle of an "ethics class."

Remember all those threads in "creationism vs. evolution" where someone comes in saying "I have a PhD in molecular biology, but I just talked to a big gang of other biologists and I started wondering whether [insert verbatim Ken Hamm quotes]"?

Same thing. It annoys me.

This kind of ill-informed muck-raking is beneath you.

Have you actually read many (any?) of Klaufi's other posts on this forum? If you have, can you honestly say he strikes you as an evil white nationalist masquerading as an inquisitive, if perhaps a shred naive, young fellow on a religious discussion forum to further his evil, white nationalist agenda?

This kind of question is one that a lot of white kids, especially those with suburban backgrounds, will find themselves pondering. It's also the kind of question that ethics classes are designed to provoke.

Regarding his use of Thor's Hammer as his avatar, it is a symbol widely used amongst those who follow religious paths based on revivals of pre-Christian Northern European beliefs. If you read the page you linked to, it even says:

Nazi Germany glorified an idealized "Aryan/Norse" heritage, consequently extremists have appropriated many symbols from pre-Christian Europe for their own uses. They give such symbols a racist significance, even though the symbols did not originally have such meaning and are often used by nonracists today, especially practitioners of modern pagan religions

and

However, because it continues to be in use by many nonracists, one should never assume that the Thor's Hammer symbol appearing by itself necessarily denotes racism or white supremacy, but instead should judge it by the context in which it appears.

Emphasis mine.

Do you seriously think that his earnest asking of a question that has hardly been an uncommon one on this forum (and elsewhere) constitutes an appropriate context within which to start casting aspersions on his character because it appears beside a legitimate religious symbol? Would you make the same assumptions about a poster posing this or a similar question if they had a cross as they avatar? I understand the symbol of the cross is used extensively by the Ku Klux Klan in the US, after all.

 

[Reverend Rick]

So being Ásatrú or having an interest in Norse history and mythology entails white supremacy? Also is pointing out cultural double standards indicative of racist tenancies?

I remember a few years back we had a Asatru member of the forum. I never seen any racist post from him back then. He was pretty active too.

 

[bobhikes]

Ironic that you would complain about prejudices when you were the one who threw a fit over lesbians dancing together, if I remember correctly. Also suggesting that the white race as a whole should feel shame and guilt for the ignorance and bigotry of a few rednecks is itself a bit racist.

Cool some one reads what I write. But racism and homosexuality for me don't equate.

You can't change the color of your skin you can't hide it. You don't have to reveal you sexuality but you may want to(not the same). Also my argument was not against homosexuality. It was about emasculating men yet again.

 

[bobhikes]

I would agree that all human's have racism in there ethnic groupings. I would like to point out that in my experiences the Black colored ethnic groups have problems with all other groups.

Other then caucasian. My other half is hispanic. The hispanic have major issue's with the black ethnic group as well. It is quite insane to hear a dark(black) hispanic talk about black ethnic groups that are not hispanic.

I'd like to also point out I keep seeing race thrown around here. Race as in humans should be intellectualy thrown in the garbage. That would help get rid of a few racists.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'd like to also point out I keep seeing race thrown around here. Race as in humans should be intellectualy thrown in the garbage. That would help get rid of a few racists.

We can no more get rid of racism than we can get rid of dishonesty, stupidity & cruelty.
It's part of being human. The most we can hope for is to manage & minimize it.

 

[Revasser]

The industry I work in is pretty well dominated by East Asians in this country, Chinese in particular. So much so that at many times, I'm the only gwai lo within earshot.

With the Chinese being famous racists and my workmates being no different, I hear all kinds of casually racist remarks about white folks and have even come to recognise a few Cantonese phrases as being disparaging comments about gwai lo. It's not just white people they have unpleasant things to say about (apparently Indians are not very popular either), but of course those are the ones I remember the most.

Where I work at least, they will take racist comments about them with the same good humour that they dish them out. At least a couple of my workmates seemed a little baffled as to why I would be more careful about using that kind of language.

What's interesting is that when I tell a story about some white people being racist to my white, middle class friends they will shake their heads and start throwing around words like "bigot", but if I tell a similar story and the protagonists are my Chinese workmates, they take it all in stride as if it's nothing to get riled up over.

 

[Nerthus]

I studied something along these lines very briefly, and one argument that kept being brought up is that the majority race in a given country/ city/ school are deemed to be the racist ones. Whether the majority race is white, black, or Asian.

Also brought up was how the media reports race and crime. A lot in my class felt that if a black person committed a crime - the papers would say 'a black man.....', yet if it was a white person, race was never mentioned.

 

[Dezzie]

This is a matter of opinion but mostly it's history. Decades and decades of being oppressed. I'm not saying it's right but it should be understandable. While you or even your parents might not have anything at all to do with it if you are white it's likely your ancestors oppressed and advanced on the blood and misery of someone else even if they did nothing overt.

I don't see how it could be understandable IMO... racist people should get over it and the race that was once treated badly should get over it too. No one should be racist. There is no excuse for it... it's freaking 2010 (almost 2011) for goodness sakes... I mean seriously... how long ago did African American Slavery happen? Don't forget the Native Americans... I mean... come on. Wasn't it a white guy that ended slavery? Not sure about other things but I mean... seriously... I'm not trying to sound rude but I don't think rasicm should ever be understandable. People shouldn't be treated like dogs, no matter what their skin color. Caucasian, African American, Asian, Native American, Indian... who cares. This crap shouldn't happen anymore. I understand that it still does in some places but it's pathetic honestly.

 

[Dezzie]

We can no more get rid of racism than we can get rid of dishonesty, stupidity & cruelty.
It's part of being human. The most we can hope for is to manage & minimize it.

We as people have the power to change those things about ourselves. People just chose not to because they either don't care... or they are just not commited. I try my hardest not to be these things... it's quite easy IMO. It's easy not to be racist, cruel, and dishonest. Just be strong and STEP UP for your mistakes as an individual. People just like to make excuses.

 

[Nepenthe]

You are naive. White supremacists don't prance about in pillow cases any more, but they're still pretty keen on secret handshakes and anonymity.

I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt since this thread is the only one where he has demonstrated anything I'd associate with a white nationalist attitude. His viking imagery could very well have more to do with a 17 yeard olds interest in Swedish death metal than white nationalism.

Of course I have no idea what his views are. I think posting on a forum is pretty anonymous already and using Norse imagery neo-fascists adopt certainly raises eyebrows but I don't think I'm naive for suspending judgement until I see more than a Thor's hammer avatar, Nordic "location" and a puerile OP that sounds like something a 17 year old kid would write.

 

[Revoltingest]

We as people have the power to change those things about ourselves. People just chose not to because they either don't care... or they are just not commited. I try my hardest not to be these things... it's quite easy IMO. It's easy not to be racist, cruel, and dishonest. Just be strong and STEP UP for your mistakes as an individual. People just like to make excuses.

It's fine that you strive to be an enlightened person. But our innate tendencies are still there, & will rear their ugly head
in some of us. I don't see this as an excuse, since it's irrelevant...I favor overcoming bigotry no matter what.

 

[Twig pentagram]

White people are not the only ones who get called racist.

 

[Alceste]

This kind of ill-informed muck-raking is beneath you.

Have you actually read many (any?) of Klaufi's other posts on this forum? If you have, can you honestly say he strikes you as an evil white nationalist masquerading as an inquisitive, if perhaps a shred naive, young fellow on a religious discussion forum to further his evil, white nationalist agenda?

This kind of question is one that a lot of white kids, especially those with suburban backgrounds, will find themselves pondering. It's also the kind of question that ethics classes are designed to provoke.

Regarding his use of Thor's Hammer as his avatar, it is a symbol widely used amongst those who follow religious paths based on revivals of pre-Christian Northern European beliefs. If you read the page you linked to, it even says:

and

Emphasis mine.

Do you seriously think that his earnest asking of a question that has hardly been an uncommon one on this forum (and elsewhere) constitutes an appropriate context within which to start casting aspersions on his character because it appears beside a legitimate religious symbol? Would you make the same assumptions about a poster posing this or a similar question if they had a cross as they avatar? I understand the symbol of the cross is used extensively by the Ku Klux Klan in the US, after all.

Like I said, I'm not going to argue. There are several factors behind my hunch, not just the Thor hammer. Still, it's just a hunch. I could be wrong. Only Klaufi can say whether there's anything to it.

 

[painted wolf]

I don't see how it could be understandable IMO... racist people should get over it and the race that was once treated badly should get over it too.

Very easily said... dismissing race and racism is much easier than dealing with it.

No one should be racist. There is no excuse for it... it's freaking 2010 (almost 2011) for goodness sakes... I mean seriously... how long ago did African American Slavery happen?

The old slavery, 150 years ago (just three odd generations)
The new slavery can be argued to be still going on. Peonage, chain gangs and the fact that the majority of the prision population is African American (while the crime rate for African Americans is not higher than whites) and these prisoners are used as free labor, have their rights to vote permanently removed and often loose the ability to be employed or own property outside of prison. And there is still room to wonder about institutionalized racism in American life.
Peonage, or the New Slavery.
NEW SLAVERY FOR A NEW SOUTH (AND BEYOND): HISTORY, JAIL, AND CORPORATE AMERICA | Chop It Up Mag.com
If you think the civil war ended the enslavement of blacks in the south you are naive.

Racism isn't something that can simply be decreed to go away... there is good evidence that we are all in a struggle against racism, it is part of our evolutionary heritage to classify things "us" and "not us".

And people growing up steeped in history of oppression can't simply "get over it"... when you have parents and grandparents who were victims of brutality you don't grow up thinking everything is fine... let alone being able to shrug off experiences that reflect those of your family.

Don't forget the Native Americans... I mean... come on.

1960's... though First Nations still don't have many key rights to self determination. They only just the right to prosecute white criminals on their land.

Wasn't it a white guy that ended slavery?

No... it was a mix of white, black, Native Americans and Jews.... a single white guy didn't simply wave his hand and end slavery.
Lincoln was deeply influenced by Fredric Douglass and others. He didn't come to his decision out of some sort of preternatural goodness.

Not sure about other things but I mean... seriously... I'm not trying to sound rude but I don't think rasicm should ever be understandable. People shouldn't be treated like dogs, no matter what their skin color. Caucasian, African American, Asian, Native American, Indian... who cares. This crap shouldn't happen anymore. I understand that it still does in some places but it's pathetic honestly.

Yes, and the desire of many to ignore it and not understand it is why it still prospers.

Until we as a species, and Americans as a nation actually face our history and our tendencies toward racism we can never suppress it. We can't simply keep sayings things like... "well it happened way back then, and I'm not racist so everything is ok" or "why can't they just get over it".

wa:do

 

[painted wolf]

Oh... I have a friend who has a Thor's Hammer tattoo... he's a metal head and a Norse wannabe... but he's not particularly racist.

wa:do

 

[Father Heathen]

I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt since this thread is the only one where he has demonstrated anything I'd associate with a white nationalist attitude. His viking imagery could very well have more to do with a 17 yeard olds interest in Swedish death metal than white nationalism.

Of course I have no idea what his views are. I think posting on a forum is pretty anonymous already and using Norse imagery neo-fascists adopt certainly raises eyebrows but I don't think I'm naive for suspending judgement until I see more than a Thor's hammer avatar, Nordic "location" and a puerile OP that sounds like something a 17 year old kid would write.

What exactly was puerile about it? I find the knee-jerk reactions toward the post far more eyebrow raising than the content of the post itself. It seems people don't find it emotionally palatable, but can't come up with a logical rebuttal, so they attack his character based on a few straw-grasping presumptions.

 

[Revoltingest]

What exactly was puerile about it? I find the knee-jerk reactions toward the post far more eyebrow raising than the content of the post itself. It seems people don't find it emotionally palatable, but can't come up with a logical rebuttal, so they attack his character based on a few straw-grasping presumptions.

This is why race is so hard to discuss. Just bringing it up results in personal attacks.

 

[Nepenthe]

What exactly was puerile about it?

I found the entire OP puerile; equating things like the NAACP and the lack of caucasian clubs at schools is trivializing the history of racism in the U.S. imo.

I find the knee-jerk reactions toward the post far more eyebrow raising than the content of the post itself.

I don't think my post(s) were knee jerk. I hope not.

It seems people don't find it emotionally palatable, but can't come up with a logical rebuttal, so they attack his character based on a few straw-grasping presumptions.

I did respond to the OP with a logical rebuttal devoid of character assasination in my post #50.

I also think Alceste and Painted Wolf responded logically and rationally to the OP already.