Why aren’t we learning?

[Heyo]

What would this progress look like to you?

It would be progress mostly in the field of politics and the social and economics sector.
Just like the Enlightenment led to implementations of moral ideas in politics and law, democratic government, abolishment of slavery, equal rights for women, further progress would manifest itself in the same way.
War is still seen as a valid political instrument by some countries whose ethics are way backwards. But even countries, which have a no attack wars policy, still associate with unethical countries. Progress, to me, would be if more countries denounced war as a valid option, dissociated from countries which don't act on that policy and assist countries which are victims of aggressors.
In the socio-economics sector, I'd like to see some form of UBI universally implemented.

 

[1213]

...Why aren’t we learning lessons from our past? ...

Maybe it is because no one teaches? The leaders of this world want people to be ignorant and stupid, because then they can be used in benefit for them and their greedy and selfish ambitions. If people would be taught well, the leaders could not exploit them as well as now.

 

[McBell]

Not at all? Not even you and the other Baha'is in the world?

You, supposedly, know the answer and you know how to fix the problem. People have got to listen to God's latest manifestation. He, it is believed, is the "Divine Physician." Any answers the rest of us might give is probably wrong.

So socially, what does the Baha'i Faith believe is needed? Equality of men and woman? That's happening. Equality of the races? Slowly getting better. But how much did Baha'is participate in these things happening?

Spiritually? Lots of choices out there on how to become more spiritual. Meditate? Pray? What is the Baha'i answer to this? Everyone get together and love everybody?

But the Baha'is have an answer to control materialism too. Baha'is say to abolish the extremes of wealth and poverty. And what else? The Baha'i Faith has a plan to make everything work just like God had planned. What is that plan?

You could tell everybody, but that's the problem... will anybody believe you and believe that plan will work?

Who is the current "manifestation"?

 

[danieldemol]

Yeah, if they have the answer, let's hear it. But really, no progress on spirituality? I've grown a little bit just by everybody here sharing their beliefs.

Yeah maybe it's a case of saying "we" then projecting ones own progress onto others. I've learnt bucket loads yet here I am being referred to in the OP title as "why aren't we learning" as though I never learnt anything in my view.

 

[Vinayaka]

Yeah, if they have the answer, let's hear it. But really, no progress on spirituality? I've grown a little bit just by everybody here sharing their beliefs.

As have I, mostly in the ability to appreciate diversity.

 

[Vinayaka]

Yeah maybe it's a case of saying "we" then projecting ones own progress onto others. I've learnt bucket loads yet here I am being referred to in the OP title as "why aren't we learning" as though I never learnt anything in my view.

Hard habit to break, that use of 'we', by some. It's been pointed out many times, and it continues. Do you have any idea why that is?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Not at all? Not even you and the other Baha'is in the world?

You, supposedly, know the answer and you know how to fix the problem. People have got to listen to God's latest manifestation. He, it is believed, is the "Divine Physician." Any answers the rest of us might give is probably wrong.

So socially, what does the Baha'i Faith believe is needed? Equality of men and woman? That's happening. Equality of the races? Slowly getting better. But how much did Baha'is participate in these things happening?

Spiritually? Lots of choices out there on how to become more spiritual. Meditate? Pray? What is the Baha'i answer to this? Everyone get together and love everybody?

But the Baha'is have an answer to control materialism too. Baha'is say to abolish the extremes of wealth and poverty. And what else? The Baha'i Faith has a plan to make everything work just like God had planned. What is that plan?

You could tell everybody, but that's the problem... will anybody believe you and believe that plan will work?

Baha’u’llah did say that if the Baha’is had done as they should have “the world would have been changed in His own lifetime “. So we may have made some progress but not enough to make a big difference yet.

Things like wars need to be settled through dialogue but that’s not happening. If anything conflicts and terrorism are increasing and spreading.

It’s like anything. People have got to want it bad enough to make it happen. The Baha’i plan works but it is not being embraced by enough people to make that much of a difference. Perhaps the illness may have to get far worse before the patient takes the medicine.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I take the OP to mean why is spiritual progress so slow.

Part of the answer is readiness. Real progress means that the old structures must give way to new ones and people resist change, especially drastic change even if it's beneficial.

A very profound insight and so true.

 

[loverofhumanity]

What would this progress look like to you?

A lot of things. Too many to mention. But some major ones are a willingness to sit down and sort out our differences instead of resorting to killing each other. To outlaw wars. To establish a just order where oppressors are no longer free to ply their trade. That women have an equal say in the destiny of humankind. Universal human rights observed in all nations. That funds used for war be spent on improving the quality of life with such things as universal free basic Medicare , free universal university education. And many more but apparently we have not learned much from the world wars as we are heading towards a far worse one with none to put on the brakes. A world in chaos. Do we have to have massive destruction and be forced to reconcile our differences or why can’t we just put our aggro aside and work things out together?

Baha’is have been able to unite and form a world community united under world governance comprising all religions, nationalities and races and offered it as a model to the world leaders to assist humanity but largely ignored.

 

[Vinayaka]

Baha’u’llah did say that if the Baha’is had done as they should have “the world would have been changed in His own lifetime “. So we may have made some progress but not enough to make a big difference yet.

Things like wars need to be settled through dialogue but that’s not happening. If anything conflicts and terrorism are increasing and spreading.

It’s like anything. People have got to want it bad enough to make it happen. The Baha’i plan works but it is not being embraced by enough people to make that much of a difference. Perhaps the illness may have to get far worse before the patient takes the medicine.

And complaining about other people you don't even know helps how?

 

[F1fan]

Baha’u’llah did say that if the Baha’is had done as they should have “the world would have been changed in His own lifetime “. So we may have made some progress but not enough to make a big difference yet.

What have Baha'i done that has improved anything? You must be disappointed that there's more acceptance, equality, and liberty for gay people in progressive nations.

Things like wars need to be settled through dialogue but that’s not happening. If anything conflicts and terrorism are increasing and spreading.

And this illustrates how naive Baha'i are, as if these complicated issues are like selecting a better braind of shampoo. We have war in Ukraine and in Gaza due to putin and Netanyahu, both very conservative and uncompromizing. The citizens selected these people, at least at one time. the idealism of Baha'i doesn't work in the reality of human psychology and social psychology. Humans aren't perfect machines that can make sound judgments like Vulcans. Many humans are not skilled thinkers, and will make emotional decisions, which explains the popularity of Trump. Want to improve the planet? Then advocate for critical thinking skill, even if that means fewer people will believe in Baha'i.

It’s like anything. People have got to want it bad enough to make it happen.

Would you teach children critical thinking skill if few of them would accept Baha'i? What's the goal of Baha'i worth to you?

The Baha’i plan works but it is not being embraced by enough people to make that much of a difference.

There is no plan, it's just a set of ideals. Most agree with them, but too few citizens are mature enough to manage emotions and make sound decisions. You say nothing about teaching critical thinking skills.

Perhaps the illness may have to get far worse before the patient takes the medicine.

Well the illness would be a very primitive emotion center that comes naturally in human experience, and critical thinking needs to be taught and learned, which it isn't. Only with the skill to manage emotion, and the ability to make more objective judgments can humans be more unified in progress.

 

[Trailblazer]

Who is the current "manifestation"?

According to the Baha'i Faith He is Baha'u'llah.

 

[Rival]

A lot of things. Too many to mention. But some major ones are a willingness to sit down and sort out our differences instead of resorting to killing each other. To outlaw wars. To establish a just order where oppressors are no longer free to ply their trade. That women have an equal say in the destiny of humankind. Universal human rights observed in all nations. That funds used for war be spent on improving the quality of life with such things as universal free basic Medicare , free universal university education. And many more but apparently we have not learned much from the world wars as we are heading towards a far worse one with none to put on the brakes. A world in chaos. Do we have to have massive destruction and be forced to reconcile our differences or why can’t we just put our aggro aside and work things out together?

Baha’is have been able to unite and form a world community united under world governance comprising all religions, nationalities and races and offered it as a model to the world leaders to assist humanity but largely ignored.

Right, so it's another Baha'i preaching thread.

 

[loverofhumanity]

What have Baha'i done that has improved anything? You must be disappointed that there's more acceptance, equality, and liberty for gay people in progressive nations.

And this illustrates how naive Baha'i are, as if these complicated issues are like selecting a better braind of shampoo. We have war in Ukraine and in Gaza due to putin and Netanyahu, both very conservative and uncompromizing. The citizens selected these people, at least at one time. the idealism of Baha'i doesn't work in the reality of human psychology and social psychology. Humans aren't perfect machines that can make sound judgments like Vulcans. Many humans are not skilled thinkers, and will make emotional decisions, which explains the popularity of Trump. Want to improve the planet? Then advocate for critical thinking skill, even if that means fewer people will believe in Baha'i.

Would you teach children critical thinking skill if few of them would accept Baha'i? What's the goal of Baha'i worth to you?

There is no plan, it's just a set of ideals. Most agree with them, but too few citizens are mature enough to manage emotions and make sound decisions. You say nothing about teaching critical thinking skills.

Well the illness would be a very primitive emotion center that comes naturally in human experience, and critical thinking needs to be taught and learned, which it isn't. Only with the skill to manage emotion, and the ability to make more objective judgments can humans be more unified in progress.

With regard to emotions it’s just my view that if the emotion of compassion were to dominate the warring leaders and they were to ‘feel’ for those who suffer I think wars would stop immediately. If anything we need lots of compassion for the innocent.

 

[osgart]

Humanity has come a long way scientifically. We are able to reach for the stars and communicate instantly over thousands of miles.

Yet mankind has not advanced in the social or spiritual realms. Wars have plagued us for centuries and religions continue to conflict.

Why aren’t we learning lessons from our past? We have billions of religious people but no peace.

Why has humanity failed to progress socially and spiritually but only materially?

Humanity fails because their morality is subjective and relative. That kind of morality is about doing whatever one believes or wants according to their pleasure, desire, want, whim, preference and hate. Humanity is blind to the universality, and objective truth of morality. No one wants to see the truth of things. The truth that is in the virtues. The truth in other people.

Humanity also does NOT have an eternal perspective. Humanity has an one life to live, and get out of my way attitude towards living. The default state of conviction is that life has no inherent meaning nor purpose, and nothingness is existence.

For the religious I would say, many religions claim the one true way without it being real and true. God or gods are made in the image of humanity.

One of the ultimate facts about reality is that no one really knows what this reality is. Experience is the only way we teach ourselves what is, and what is not.

Humanity has to conquer the material world to have any ability to alleviate the human condition. That's what science is for.

Humanity has competing convictions without the truth of spirituality to light the way.

In short humanity claims to know, when ' I don't know ' would be more honest.

Another thing is that our natural world is not suited for spiritual progress. It's suited for competition to survive, and our governments, social systems, and institutions reflect that competition.

 

[Vinayaka]

I heard another theory or factor on why there were wars, just now in a discussion with friend. He put most of the blame on arms manufacturers, which, when looked at psychologically, is a byproduct of greed.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Humanity fails because their morality is subjective and relative. That kind of morality is about doing whatever one believes or wants according to their pleasure, desire, want, whim, preference and hate. Humanity is blind to the universality, and objective truth of morality. No one wants to see the truth of things. The truth that is in the virtues. The truth in other people.

Humanity also does NOT have an eternal perspective. Humanity has an one life to live, and get out of my way attitude towards living. The default state of conviction is that life has no inherent meaning nor purpose, and nothingness is existence.

For the religious I would say, many religions claim the one true way without it being real and true. God or gods are made in the image of humanity.

One of the ultimate facts about reality is that no one really knows what this reality is. Experience is the only way we teach ourselves what is, and what is not.

Humanity has to conquer the material world to have any ability to alleviate the human condition. That's what science is for.

Humanity has competing convictions without the truth of spirituality to light the way.

In short humanity claims to know, when ' I don't know ' would be more honest.

Another thing is that our natural world is not suited for spiritual progress. It's suited for competition to survive, and our governments, social systems, and institutions reflect that competition.

Very true. It’s time to be honest. I’m one of those people who just can’t understand why there are so many wars and so much inhumanity to people. To me it’s so simple. Just have a basic care for others, and don’t cause suffering or be cruel.

 

[F1fan]

With regard to emotions it’s just my view that if the emotion of compassion were to dominate the warring leaders and they were to ‘feel’ for those who suffer I think wars would stop immediately. If anything we need lots of compassion for the innocent.

1. I didn’t comment on feeling emotions, but acting emotionally.

2. You keep focusing on leaders and ignore the public who allows them to take power.

3. You lack any sort of understanding about human psychology and how humans are not machines that behave in ideal ways.

4. Of course wars should stop. You’ve never shown any interest in understanding shy war happens.

So your idealistic beliefs may be what most agree with you don’t have the knowledge to understand why conflict still happens. It’s not just leaders, it’s people who behave like animals because they lack reasoning skills.

 

[Heyo]

I heard another theory or factor on why there were wars, just now in a discussion with friend. He put most of the blame on arms manufacturers, which, when looked at psychologically, is a byproduct of greed.

Your friend is smart. Wars today no longer benefit anyone but the arms dealers and manufacturers. In the old times, capturing fertile land, resources or strategic points had some value and were worth the risk (from a purely economic perspective). That doesn't hold true any more, war is too expensive to ever get a ROI for the country.

 

[firedragon]

Humanity has come a long way scientifically. We are able to reach for the stars and communicate instantly over thousands of miles.

Yet mankind has not advanced in the social or spiritual realms. Wars have plagued us for centuries and religions continue to conflict.

Why aren’t we learning lessons from our past? We have billions of religious people but no peace.

Why has humanity failed to progress socially and spiritually but only materially?

What is your true contention? in one sentence you put wars and religions together. Are you making a case of causality? If that's so, can you tell me the biggest was in the history of mankind and how it's caused by religion?

Yet, I could be wrong about your assertion in the OP so could you clarify?

Anyway, you made another assertion that humanity is not processing spiritually but only materially. There are 7 or 8 billion human beings on earth. Thus, can you cite your quantitative research that gave you this assumption?