Sooooooo. . . in your view of the world there are only two kinds of people: Christians and "unrepentant sinner(s) who has rejected Christ"?
Sounds like a small (and scary) world.
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why ask, aren't you afraid for your
- Thread starter waitasec
- Start date
Sooooooo. . . in your view of the world there are only two kinds of people: Christians and "unrepentant sinner(s) who has rejected Christ"?
Sounds like a small (and scary) world.
javajo
Well-Known Member
No, I believe there are many kinds of people who will all be judged with equity. Eternity will not be the same for every unbeliever or for every believer. But its better to be a believer imo:
9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5
Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. 7.21
Whoever thinks of Me alone even at the time of death, attains to My state on abandoning the body. There is no doubt about this. 8.5
I am indeed the only enjoyer and the Lord of all sacrifices. But they, the worshippers of other deities, do not understand Me in My true nature as the object of all worship. So they fall. 9.24
Whoever makes an offering to Me with devotion, be it of leaf, flower, fruit or water - that devout offering by a pure-hearted man, I accept with joy. 9.26
Even a confirmed sinner, if he worships Me with unwavering faith and devotion, must verily be considered as righteous; for he has indeed taken the right resolve. 9.30
I am the Self-residing in the heart of every being. I am their beginning, their life span, and their end. 10.20
Of all beings I am the seed. Whatever exists in this world, living or non-living, none of them can be, if I were not. 10.39
With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe. 10.42
Always think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend. 18.65
Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear. 18.66
The Bhagavad Gita, spoken ca. 3,000 BCE. This all sounds far more compassionate and loving.
Whoever thinks of Me alone even at the time of death, attains to My state on abandoning the body. There is no doubt about this. 8.5
I am indeed the only enjoyer and the Lord of all sacrifices. But they, the worshippers of other deities, do not understand Me in My true nature as the object of all worship. So they fall. 9.24
Whoever makes an offering to Me with devotion, be it of leaf, flower, fruit or water - that devout offering by a pure-hearted man, I accept with joy. 9.26
Even a confirmed sinner, if he worships Me with unwavering faith and devotion, must verily be considered as righteous; for he has indeed taken the right resolve. 9.30
I am the Self-residing in the heart of every being. I am their beginning, their life span, and their end. 10.20
Of all beings I am the seed. Whatever exists in this world, living or non-living, none of them can be, if I were not. 10.39
With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe. 10.42
Always think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend. 18.65
Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear. 18.66
The Bhagavad Gita, spoken ca. 3,000 BCE. This all sounds far more compassionate and loving.
Rocky S
Christian Goth
The backdrop to this scripture in chapter 10 is when Jesus sent his disciples to the surrounding towns in Jerusalem to preach about him. And was instructing them not to be afraid of persecution from man, because right before this verse(16-17) he predicts the coming persecution that christian would suffer on account of his name. Verses 28-33 is actually a teaching and a warning not to deny his name even if your life is jeopardy. Now verse 28 means don't fear men, but fear denying Jesus to spare your own life, which will result in being in danger of going to hell. As it says in verse 33 if you deny me I will deny you before my father in heaven. Meaning if one denies his faith in Christ to save himself from persecution that results in death are in danger of there soul going to hell. Thousands, maybe even millions of Christians have been killed for not denying Jesus.
Like I said: Sooooooo. . . in your view of the world there are only two kinds of people: Christians and "unrepentant sinner(s) who has rejected Christ"?
Rocky S
Christian Goth
Greeting Quagmire, not meaning to jump in but I know people want definitive answers. I get ask that a lot as well. the definitive answer is yes.
Thank you. :yes:
waitasec
Veteran Member
interesting. god would rather have one be needlessly tortured for his name sake. awesome.
:areyoucraand this is exclusive to christians?
:no:
waitasec
Veteran Member
so you think living in torment is better then living in peace of mind as one who is searching for truth?
one is free to believe they are saved and dare not to not fear god.
i don't get it. at all.
waitasec
Veteran Member
waitasec
Veteran Member
good question...
javajo
Well-Known Member
I will try to explain my belief...In a sense, yes. I would say there are those who are lost and those who are saved. Does that mean all lost people are "unrepentent sinners"? Depends on one's understanding of unrepentent. We all are sinners. To repent means to change one's mind. So are there good people who are still searching for salvation through other means than Christ who died to pay the penalty of their sins? Sure. But, they/we are all still sinners, and if one has not changed their mind about how they think they can save or help save themselves and turned and trusted alone in Christ alone by faith alone for salvation, then yup that's pretty much it. Do some people, saved or unsaved live more productive, disciplined or moral lives than others? Sure. But compared to God's Righteousness, we all fall far short. Like jumping to the moon, some may jump higher than others, but nobody gets near the moon. It is as simple as you say, but it is not. Some people live awful wicked lives and some try to do good, so judgment, Heaven and Hell will not be the same for everyone. God judges with equity. But I would still rather be the lowest person in Heaven than the most 'comfortable' person in Hell.
So, yes, 2 groups, not kinds of people, with varying degrees of morality in both groups, many different personalities and backgrounds, etc. Many kinds of people, but still 2 groups, lost and found.
It is better to live in peace than in torment. One who searches with all their heart will eventually find the truth, for if we humble ourselves and draw near to God, he will draw near to us, and we will have true peace. Torment is living a life thinking one can never find the truth, ever learning but never coming to, or being willing to come to the knowledge of the truth. Hey, when you find the lost diamond, its time to stop searching and rejoice and be happy.
It says we can KNOW we are saved because of what Christ has done for us. God does not want us to fear whether we are saved or not once we have left the matter in his hands. He loves us too much for that. We do not fear God as far as our salvation is concerned. We do fear, respect, and revere him for who he is, a holy God who will judge even Christians for the good and bad we have done. This is not a fear of punishment, but of loss, of little or no reward or position in his Kingdom. As I said, eternity will not be the same for every unbeliever or believer.
Read above...Jesus did die to save us from something pretty bad, so getting to heaven was paid for with a heavy price by the Lord and it is very important indeed. If we died and went to Hell, it wouldn't seem so cheap. But being saved and made a new creation and a child of God is only the beginning. God saved us for good works he created for us to do. We are saved for a purpose, for very specific purposes and of course to grow in grace, to learn to obey and trust in God in our life and etc.
-Peacemaker-
.45 Cal
I'll say this much, I think alot of people live as though they have the ability to create their own realities. "If that's true for you then that's your truth" I've hear alot of people say. It's as if truth is somehow created simply because someone somewhere has chosen to believe in it. Afraid of going to hell? No worries, just stop believing it exists
waitasec
Veteran Member
you need to prove to me your truth is to override mine. and you can't btw.
i'm not here telling you that marriage in the eyes of god doesn't count in our society am i?
but there are plenty of christians who would say marriage between 2 ppl of the same sex isn't recognized by god therefore it shouldn't be recognized in society.
what is wrong with live and let live, why must we be so concerned if someone has found something different that means just as much to them as your truth means to you?
no worries, just judge and infringe on the rights of those who do not adhere to your truths...
sounds like justification for control to me.
if we were more concerned about protecting each others interest for the pursuit of our individual truths understanding that our truths don't necessarily need to over step each others boundaries, what is the problem? live and let live.
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waitasec
Veteran Member
and thats all you should say about that...
this doesn't make sense. why was the matter left in his hands in the 1st place?
speculation.
then why call it "being saved"? what is one saved from?
speculation.
yes it is because that is what you are saved from...
i beg to differ, but i'm speculating.
-Peacemaker-
.45 Cal
Interestingly, the God of the Bible doesn't "prove" truth in the way that I think you're using the concept of "proof". Even in Genesis he gives Adam and Eve a command "don't eat from the tree for you will surely die". Then the serpent comes and says "no you won't. on the contrary, you'll become like God." Did God go through a process of demonstrating through every means available the consequences of disobeying so that A & E could see and know beyond a shadow of a doubt what would happen? Or did he expect them to take his word for it? When they ended up sinning, was God interested in any of their excuses for why they disobeyed him? Did he cut them some slack because after all he didn't "prove" anything and asked them to go on blind faith?
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waitasec
Veteran Member
isn't that convenient...
you are speculating.
1st of all god wanted them to be ignorant of the consequences of their choices...thusly ignorant of the truth of the matter...you know ignorance is bliss.
secondly
this story is speculative.
so what is the problem with live and let live again?
-Peacemaker-
.45 Cal
isn't that convenient...
you are speculating.
1st of all god wanted them to be ignorant of the consequences of their choices...thusly ignorant of the truth of the matter...you know ignorance is bliss.
secondly
this story is speculative.
so what is the problem with live and let live again?
It's also worth noting that we typically don't just blindly take God's word for it when he commands us to do or abstain from something. We can judge his commands by the fruit that observing them produces.
waitasec
Veteran Member
so again, what happened to live and let live?