Why can't god reveal himself?

[Cordoba]

Your answer to the first point by stating (There are no such religions or books. All religions are man-made) makes the rest of the discussion irrelevant, as you have a subjective opinion that you are convinced that God does not exist

The suggested process is therefore not for you, but maybe of use for someone who is still searching with an objective approach

At least I tried to help

:help:

All the best

 

[apophenia]

OMG

So the personal evaluation that a book is of divine origin is not subjective ?

That is just too silly for words man.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

2- The next phase is to look for "divine books" claimed to be revealed from a divine (i.e. non-human) source.

3- Classify these books according to certain criteria like:

Since your criteria are completely subjective, the gamble is absurd to put in front of us.

 

[Cordoba]

Try reading the experience of Dr. Gary Miller, a Canadian professor of Mathematics who wrote about his experience of finding the Amazing Qur'an

This is how he approached the process of finding the "right information":

Supporting Prophet Muhammad website - The Amazing Quran - By: Dr. Gary Miller

This is a PDF version:

http://www.voiceofquran.com/ebooks/002_The_Amazing_Quran.pdf

 

[Heathen Hammer]

His criteria are subjective too.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

There was a post on another page stating that if God were to reveal himself, our free will would be compromised.

Awareness that the Bible exists is the same thing.

The entire premise fails. If god revealed himself we'd still have free will, we'd simply actually have concrete information with which to make our free-will decisions, instead of just guesswork based on the rantings of madmen.

 

[Cordoba]

There was a post on another page stating that if God were to reveal himself, our free will would be compromised.

Awareness that the Bible exists is the same thing.

The entire premise fails. If god revealed himself we'd still have free will, we'd simply actually have concrete information with which to make our free-will decisions, instead of just guesswork based on the rantings of madmen.

Prophet Moses, peace be upon him, actually asked to see God

The answer was you can't see Me

You know why?

Because God is Eternal, while we are mortals beings

A mortal being like Prophet Moses cannot "see" his Eternal Creator

This is what happened:

"And when Moses arrived at Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said, "My Lord, show me [Yourself] that I may look at You."

[ Allah ] said, "You will not see Me, but look at the mountain; if it should remain in place, then you will see Me."

But when his Lord appeared to the mountain, He rendered it level, and Moses fell unconscious. And when he awoke, he said, "Exalted are You! I have repented to You, and I am the first of the believers."

(Quran, 7:143)

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Prophet Moses, peace be upon him, actually asked to see God
The answer was you can't see Me
You know why?
Because God is Eternal, while we are mortals beings
A mortal being like Prophet Moses cannot "see" his Eternal Creator

This is what happened:

"And when Moses arrived at Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said, "My Lord, show me [Yourself] that I may look at You."

[ Allah ] said, "You will not see Me, but look at the mountain; if it should remain in place, then you will see Me."

But when his Lord appeared to the mountain, He rendered it level, and Moses fell unconscious. And when he awoke, he said, "Exalted are You! I have repented to You, and I am the first of the believers."

(Quran, 7:143)

If God were God he could reveal himself in a shielded way that would not stun the observers. These are just excuses, you know. The idea of God being 'eternal' has zero to do with the answer to the question. How God perceives Time does not affect how a physical manifestation can be viewed.
My statement stands.

 

[Cordoba]

Think of the notion of Infinity in Algebra

Can you quantify infinity?

Does that mean it does not exist?

Same here, we can't see God in this life, but that does not mean He does not exist.

Seeing God is only possible in the Hereafter

When believers become immortal and are admitted into Heaven, they will be able to see God

Meanwhile, in this life what we need to do to get to know God is use our advanced intellect, reflect, read, compare, reflect further then reach a free decision

It's a free world !

Must go now

All the best

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Got no rational answer, I see?

Infinity in algebra is represented by a symbol, which does not stun you if you see it. It represents a quantity which is deliberately not quantifiable, and may not actually exist.
My answers stand, because your rejoinder is non sequitur.

If Allah can't reveal himself, he's not omnipotent, is he?

If you don't know the facts, your assertion of free will in regards to knowing of Allah is void; an uninformed choice cannot be held to moral 'standards' if it's made incorrectly. Diversions about infinity do not apply. Only if God revealed himself would our choice be valid, and held for punishment if we made the choice to disobey. Punishing someone for something they cannot know, and are in fact prevented from knowing, is evil. See: the Garden of Eden.

Enjoy the break.

 

[apophenia]

Your answer to the first point by stating (There are no such religions or books. All religions are man-made) makes the rest of the discussion irrelevant, as you have a subjective opinion that you are convinced that God does not exist

And you have a subjective opinion that god exists. Backed up by your subjective opinion that Islam is not man-made. Which is clearly untrue, because we know that Muhammed invented it and his utterances were written down by other men. That means man-made. Any suggestion that Muhammed was not the author, but a channel for an alleged god, is an unsupportable subjective opinion.

The suggested process is therefore not for you, but maybe of use for someone who is still searching with an objective approach

How can you justify the use of the word 'objective' here ?

At least I tried to help

:help:

All the best

I don't doubt that you believe you tried to help.

All the best to you as well.

 

[Thief]

The right information is provable. 'Believing' isn't proof. Just because someone said so 1000 or 2000 years ago isn't proof. The fact that 1 million or even 1 billion people believe something is irrelevant (there are equal numbers believing different things, all convinced it is the 'right information'.

I began my path by studying self-hypnosis. I understand how 'programmable' the mind is, and how ideas can seem to be true, simply by the processes of suggestion and reinforcement.

'Experience' is totally variable, and also unverifiable.

So what are your criteria for 'right information' ?

God isn't going to prove Himself to anyone.
You have the stars over your head the earth beneath your feet.

You are walking around inside a learning device.

And then back to God you go.

It's all about 'you' proving yourself to Him.

 

[JustWondering]

would you please elaborate ,how nature and nurture determine our character.

[youtube]26wQgAfTwA4[/youtube]
The Nature-Nurture Debate - YouTube

[youtube]N6S9OidmNZM[/youtube]
Neuroscience and Free Will - YouTube

 

[apophenia]

It's all about 'you' proving yourself to Him.

No. It isn't.

Statements beginning with 'it's all about ...' are generally specious.

 

[FearGod]

[youtube]26wQgAfTwA4[/youtube]
The Nature-Nurture Debate - YouTube

[youtube]N6S9OidmNZM[/youtube]
Neuroscience and Free Will - YouTube

How you explain 4 brothers living in the same condition of nature and nurture,but they got different characters.

How you explain many atheists lived in a family of atheism and grow on atheism,then converted to be a faithful person with a new characters.

How you explain a movie star of hollywood who have changed her characters by a new faith.

How she changed,the nature and nurture from hollywood and play boy,alcoholism and drugs.watch

[youtube]5NOuEy-rGzU[/youtube]
Hollywood girl converted to islam - YouTube

Another example of an atheist spent his life in astray,watch

[youtube]AH8er8beT-0[/youtube]
Tv Report -German atheist convert to Islam -English Subtitle - YouTube

We are responsible for our acts and we got our free will for every and each single second independent of nature and nurture

 

[Koldo]

How you explain 4 brothers living in the same condition of nature and nurture,but they got different characters.

They don't have the same nature and/or nurture.

How you explain many atheists lived in a family of atheism and grow on atheism,then converted to be a faithful person with a new characters.

They were compelled to believe in the existence of a god.

 

[Sir Doom]

I do have to say that the video about free will seems to be leave a few questions for me. I'm not exactly doubting the conclusions, but they didn't present enough information for me to draw the conclusions they did.

For example, they said that he seemed to make his decisions up to 6 seconds before they actually happened. So a few questions I have about that are:

How long did the test go on, and how long between the pressing of each button? This would tell me whether the 'random' button pressing was actually more of a premeditated set of actions. I find it extremely difficult to believe that the someone who thinks about pressing a button with their left hand 6 seconds before they do it, is being suggested this action by their brain instead of simply thinking about pressing the left button in their mind to simulate randomness and causing brain activity to show it. I think there would likely be a direct correlation between the time between button presses and the time between brain activity.

Another thing I'd like to know is if there is any discernible pattern within the button pressing. I can almost bet there is. The underlying beat of a song for example. Tapping out Wake Up Little Suzy from left to right to represent different instruments or points in the song. This is a pretty common practice for most human beings absent any significant input or activity. The preemptive brain activity could be interpreted as a completely different set of thoughts unconnected with the tapping of buttons 6 seconds later.

I really can't see how they can say that the pressing of the button is objectively random when they are obviously under the direct control of a conscious brain.

 

[FearGod]

They don't have the same nature and/or nurture.



They were compelled to believe in the existence of a god.

No one is compelled to believe or to change his belief.
it is all about our free will,we can choose the way we want.

Thomas Addison was known to be stupid,then was he compelled to become clever

Thomas Addison's teachers said he was "too stupid to learn anything." He was fired from his first two jobs for being "non-productive." As an inventor, Edison made 1,000 unsuccessful attempts at inventing the light bulb. When a reporter asked, "How did it feel to fail 1,000 times?" Edison replied, "I didn’t fail 1,000 times. The light bulb was an invention with 1,000 steps."

Charles Darwin gave up a medical career and was told by his father, "You care for nothing but shooting, dogs and rat catching." In his autobiography, Darwin wrote, "I was considered by all my masters and my father, a very ordinary boy, rather below the common standard of intellect." Clearly, he evolved.

Many other examples They Did Not Give Up

 

[Koldo]

No one is compelled to believe or to change his belief.
it is all about our free will,we can choose the way we want.

You can not choose to believe in the existence of Santa Claus. Either you believe in it or you don't. It is not a choice. Same goes for gods.

You can be compelled to believe in the existence of supernatural beings through several manners though.

Thomas Addison was known to be stupid,then was he compelled to become clever

Thomas Addison's teachers said he was "too stupid to learn anything." He was fired from his first two jobs for being "non-productive." As an inventor, Edison made 1,000 unsuccessful attempts at inventing the light bulb. When a reporter asked, "How did it feel to fail 1,000 times?" Edison replied, "I didn’t fail 1,000 times. The light bulb was an invention with 1,000 steps."

Charles Darwin gave up a medical career and was told by his father, "You care for nothing but shooting, dogs and rat catching." In his autobiography, Darwin wrote, "I was considered by all my masters and my father, a very ordinary boy, rather below the common standard of intellect." Clearly, he evolved.

Many other examples They Did Not Give Up

What are you talking about?

 

[FearGod]

You can not choose to believe in the existence of Santa Claus. Either you believe in it or you don't. It is not a choice. Same goes for god

Santa Clause is a myth,i don't know how you compare it with the long history and prophecies which occurred as prophecied by god's messenger.

You can be compelled to believe in the existence of supernatural beings through several manners though.

Please elaborate the several manners.

What are you talking about?

Very simple,Thomas addison was known to be stupid,and his nurture didn't change as he was expelled from school,still his mother was his only nurture.

What do you think,isn't enough Thomas Addison to prove Nature & Nurture to be wrong.