Why can't I go to heaven?

[Thief]

A deep dream-less sleep does not recall either good or bad dreams.
Who awakens from the dust of the earth [death's sleep] at Daniel 12 v 2 ?
'Awake and sing ye that dwell in the dust' -Isaiah 26v19
There will be a resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous. -Acts 24v15
The wicked perish and are destroyed forever.-Isaiah 26 vs 10,14; Psalm 92v7

The man's father of Matthew 8 vs 21,22; Luke 9 v 60 was not already dead.
If the father was dead, the man would already be at his father's funeral not talking to Jesus. The man was giving conditions to Jesus that first let his father live out his life, and then, the man would follow Jesus.

Since the 'dead know nothing' there is No awareness [Ecc. 9v5]
What happens to thoughts at death according to Psalm 146 v 4 B ?
If the dead were conscious they could praise God. -Psalm 115 v 17

It seems you are try to evade the difference between spiritual life and this life.The quotes you list are by those who wish the kingdom to be of this world.
The Carpenter did say otherwise.

The kingdom is not of this world.
The flesh cannot inherit the kingdom.

The resurrection is not of the flesh.

Still going to heaven?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It seems you are try to evade the difference between spiritual life and this life.The quotes you list are by those who wish the kingdom to be of this world.
The Carpenter did say otherwise.
The kingdom is not of this world.
The flesh cannot inherit the kingdom.
The resurrection is not of the flesh.
Still going to heaven?

The 'heavenly resurrection' is not of the flesh [1st Cor 15v50]
But what about the 'earthly resurrection' [John 3v13; Acts 2v34]

Besides a heavenly hope [Rev 20v6] there is also an earthly hope.
Jesus will have earthly subjects of God's kingdom. [Psalm 72v8]

Isn't this world and its desires going to be replaced?
So, naturally God's kingdom is not of this world of badness.
What will God's kingdom do according to Daniel 2 v 44 ?

 

[Thief]

The 'heavenly resurrection' is not of the flesh [1st Cor 15v50]
But what about the 'earthly resurrection' [John 3v13; Acts 2v34]

Besides a heavenly hope [Rev 20v6] there is also an earthly hope.
Jesus will have earthly subjects of God's kingdom. [Psalm 72v8]

Isn't this world and its desires going to be replaced?
So, naturally God's kingdom is not of this world of badness.
What will God's kingdom do according to Daniel 2 v 44 ?

I took a look into Daniel...and I remember...
A lengthy discussion over several weeks, made by a minister who truly believed he had put it all together.
He had made a splendid effort.

The kingdoms mentioned in Daniel are described with character and material of this world.
I thought so when the sermon was dealt, and his speech was indeed aimed in prophecy...those things soon to pass.

But God's kingdom is spiritual, and eternal.

What shall we do when we enter in?
Only God knows for sure.

I do suspect, according to each one's ability....some activity.
To those who have...more shall be given.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

'What shall we do when we enter in?' Yes, God only knows, and that is why God had recorded in Revelation that 'what shall those do' that enter in is work to be done.

There are two jobs or two positions to be filled in the kingdom of God. [Rev. 5 vs 9,10]
Those that 'enter in' serve as both kings and priests along with Jesus [joint-heirs]
* As kings they will take care of governmental needs of earthly subjects.
* As priests they will take care of the spiritual needs of earthly subjects.
Earthly subjects as mentioned at Psalm 72 v 8

 

[Sadiya]

"LITTLE KNOWLEDGE OF SCIENCE MAKES MAN AN ATHEIST.INDEPTH KNOWLEDGE OF SCIENCE MAKES MAN A BELIEVER IN GOD." (Francis Bacon)
:yes:j

 

[Muffled]

It is so if you choose to accept the offer. And again, the love and forgiveness of God towards us is not measured by how some of us behave, not even by how we live.

God's forgiveness is absolute! After all is He not greater than all of our sins?

Blessings, AJ

This is not true. God's forgiveness is conditional based on our repentance. Remember the parable of the two men in the temple?

Do you think you could convince the residents of Sodom and Gomorrah?

Yes. Otherwise He could not redeem us from them.

The love of God is absolute.

No doubt God is patient and does not immediately punish all sins and may be even more patient with the redeemed but the redeemed are without excuse since they have so great a savior and God does discpline those He loves. Most likely what is true for believers is that they are forgiven but their sins may or may not be.

 

[Muffled]

Again, why does every atheist I come upon assume that God only refers to the Abrahamic model? The divinity I believe in wouldn't punish anyone. If you were your true self, good and realised your potential, you go to eternal bliss. If you fail, you are reborn until you succeed. That simple. No one goes into eternal hell or anything like that.

Then your divinity is a minor or evil divinity.

I believe that is promoted as the goal but I doubt anyone actually reaches it until God makes it available.

Failure brings punishment now or in the next life. Success brings a better rebirth.

It (Hell) wouldn't have been relevant when those scriptures were written but it is relevant now.

 

[Muffled]

My reply was mainly to look; personally I do not believe in any spiritiual plain, however I was attempting to explain the conept (as I understand it) in a way that would addres his comments on no violence in heaven.

And the story of Job is an example not of God's generousity but in fickleness and callousness, when the game is finally called off and Job despairs God decides to compensate him yet berates the poor guy for daring to ask why he (a devout follower) was subjected to such torment

God is not fickle. He is always seeking the greater good. God is not callous. He demonstrates that He cares about Job.

Job wasn't berated for asking but for doubting the goodness of God.

 

[look3467]

This is not true. God's forgiveness is conditional based on our repentance. Remember the parable of the two men in the temple?

Do you think you could convince the residents of Sodom and Gomorrah?

Yes. Otherwise He could not redeem us from them.

The love of God is absolute.

No doubt God is patient and does not immediately punish all sins and may be even more patient with the redeemed but the redeemed are without excuse since they have so great a savior and God does discpline those He loves. Most likely what is true for believers is that they are forgiven but their sins may or may not be.

I understand your point, but remember, those things we can not control or regulate, God does them as His works.
God provided our salvation whether we accept it or not, for that is out of our hands completely.
Such as like those before us who never even had the opportunity to even get a glimpse of who or what God was even like. I speaking about those souls way before Abraham, before there was any witness of the divinity of God on earth.

Now that we have the light of God's knowledge via, the God of Abraham, Issac and Moses and at the end Jesus, we are held accountable for our actions only while we are yet alive, but after all that is death, which the bible speaks is the wages of sin.

Our death then is only the door Jesus opened up for us to enter in after where no man ever could, save Jesus.

death can be looked at in two ways: 1. Physical death and 2. spiritual death.

1. Physical death we all myst face.
2. Spiritual death.......well......technically...according to His word we are all lost (meaning already spiritually dead)
We couldn't die any more even if we rejected Jesus as our Savior, for we are all considered lost.
So there remains the possibility of a rebirth, that is, if we should decide to accept it, and that is to become reborn from a dead state yet while we are alive in the flesh.

To that is what your understanding of "conditional" means.

If one is already dead, how much more can we add to death?

So there remains a conditional act which we can apply yet while we are alive in the flesh and that is to gain a rebirth.

To that effect, enter Jesus.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

God is not fickle. He is always seeking the greater good. God is not callous. He demonstrates that He cares about Job.

Job wasn't berated for asking but for doubting the goodness of God.

The story of Job may or may not be real, is not the point.

The point is that Jesus, a picture of Job is who really makes the point in that Jesus withstood to the bitter end the righteousness of God, while in the flesh as you and I, conquered death and the hell of it for us.

There is always speculation about any of the stories in the bible as to their reality of the love of God when such sufferings are deemed unfair to humanity.
if we can get a handle on the works of God as we read through the bible we will see the God of love laced, interwoven, puzzled in to every piece of scripture.

Bu, then again, it is only given to them whose eyes are opened to see as when Jesus said, to some it is given to understand the parables, while to others....it is not.

Blessings, AJ

 

[markymark]

The title sounds dumb I know, but hear me out.

For the sake of argument, let's just say that god does in fact exist. Being an atheist, I would therefore be condemned to suffer an eternity of torment in hell. But...

Why? I am a good person. I'm not a criminal and I've never done drugs. On any normal day, I will go out of my way to help someone if they ask. Sometimes they don't even need to; I'll just offer my help. So if god is just sitting up there watching all this, why would he send me to hell? Because I don't believe? It was him after all who gave me the ability to not believe. Even if I wanted to, I couldn't, because I find the idea of an omnipotent creator absurd and illogical. If he truly did love me, as the bible says he claims to do, then surely he would be able to overlook the transgression of a difference of opinion when I am an overall good person.

Anyone else share the same theory, or have something to counter with?

its not about being good - no one is good , we are all sinners - God cant have anything to do with sin - unfortantly when adam sinned - evil entered into this world - you have your earthly birth and then your second birht -Born of God - being born again of heaven when accept that jesus died for you sins - i am sure some time in your life you have lied or disobeyd your parents -well thats sin - since man has free will , we have all sinned - but when you get born again Jesus takes that sin on himself , as he was sinless - and then you are in right standing with God and when he looks at you - you are sinless. does that make sense

 

[9Westy9]

its not about being good - no one is good , we are all sinners - God cant have anything to do with sin - unfortantly when adam sinned - evil entered into this world - you have your earthly birth and then your second birht -Born of God - being born again of heaven when accept that jesus died for you sins - i am sure some time in your life you have lied or disobeyd your parents -well thats sin - since man has free will , we have all sinned - but when you get born again Jesus takes that sin on himself , as he was sinless - and then you are in right standing with God and when he looks at you - you are sinless. does that make sense

please explain how free will could possibly rescue God, who I assume you believe is omnipotent and benevolent, from being responsible for evil?

 

[markymark]

please explain how free will could possibly rescue God, who I assume you believe is omnipotent and benevolent, from being responsible for evil?

i did not say that ..... rescued from what

 

[9Westy9]

i did not say that ..... rescued from what

1 If God is omnipotent and benevolent why is there evil?
2 You mentioned free will as if it's the cause for man's rebellion. My question is what quality of free will makes the being (in 1) exempt from blame

 

[InformedIgnorance]

He is (correct me if I am wrong by all means) asking you to explain how it is that providing people with free will exonerates God from responsibility for evil; given that evil often results in harm to people, people whom have not used their free will to choose to be harmed by evil AND given that god has the power to prevent such harm if it is omnipotent and those are people whom god supposedly loves.

edit: damn my slow posts... should never open a window then do something else then post

 

[9Westy9]

He is (correct me if I am wrong by all means) asking you to explain how it is that providing people with free will exonerates God from responsibility for evil; given that evil often results in harm to people, whom god supposedly loves and given that god has the power to prevent such harm if it is omnipotent.

edit: damn my slow posts... should never open a window then do something else then post

spot on . I'm only aware of one escape that works.

 

[Thief]

He is (correct me if I am wrong by all means) asking you to explain how it is that providing people with free will exonerates God from responsibility for evil; given that evil often results in harm to people, people whom have not used their free will to choose to be harmed by evil AND given that god has the power to prevent such harm if it is omnipotent and those are people whom god supposedly loves.

edit: damn my slow posts... should never open a window then do something else then post

I think there a biblical quote that drops the blame on God...altogether.
He is the source of good and evil.

But that quote does not display WHEN that good and evil are performed.

When appropriate, a harmful action might well be 'required'.
It's the inappropriate occasions that mark the difference between heaven and hell.

 

[9Westy9]

I think there a biblical quote that drops the blame on God...altogether.
He is the source of good and evil.

But that quote does not display WHEN that good and evil are performed.

When appropriate, a harmful action might well be 'required'.
It's the inappropriate occasions that mark the difference between heaven and hell.

quite limiting for an omnipotent being

 

[9Westy9]

1 If God is omnipotent and benevolent why is there evil?
2 You mentioned free will as if it's the cause for man's rebellion. My question is what quality of free will makes the being (in 1) exempt from blame

.....

 

[templetest]

The title sounds dumb I know, but hear me out.

For the sake of argument, let's just say that god does in fact exist. Being an atheist, I would therefore be condemned to suffer an eternity of torment in hell. But...

Why? I am a good person. I'm not a criminal and I've never done drugs. On any normal day, I will go out of my way to help someone if they ask. Sometimes they don't even need to; I'll just offer my help. So if god is just sitting up there watching all this, why would he send me to hell? Because I don't believe? It was him after all who gave me the ability to not believe. Even if I wanted to, I couldn't, because I find the idea of an omnipotent creator absurd and illogical. If he truly did love me, as the bible says he claims to do, then surely he would be able to overlook the transgression of a difference of opinion when I am an overall good person.

Anyone else share the same theory, or have something to counter with?

Why would anyone want to go to the christian heaven? Though it is likely better than the christian hell.
For me, I'll enjoy what I have here while I know I have it.