Why can't I go to heaven?

[look3467]

The human will is unlimited yet limited. Limited because of the conditions weekendo are subjected to.
God subjected us to vanity for the sole purpose pf testing. Genes the story of Adam and Eve being given strict rule about eating of the fruit of the tree pf knowledge.
We all must be tried in a world full of vanity.
In our trials we are prompt to seek something piritual whether we have any spiritual knowledge or not
Case in point: how many unbelievers are here arguing spiritual issues as untruths?
If one beleaves in no god why even argue?
Blessings. AJ

 

[Thief]

quite limiting for an omnipotent being

Omnipotent is not the same as yielding to the will of Man.

Wanna go to heaven?....gonna blame God if you don't get in?

 

[9Westy9]

Omnipotent is not the same as yielding to the will of Man.

Wanna go to heaven?....gonna blame God if you don't get in?

I was referring to God having to use evil actions. An omnipotent would be able to make a different way that doesn't require evil

 

[Thief]

I was referring to God having to use evil actions. An omnipotent would be able to make a different way that doesn't require evil

Doing harm is fairly straight forward.
Most wrong doers drop their behavior, if you take an 'extreme action'

Now, if you would like to....we could quote the Carpenter....
'Do good unto those who would do harm to you.'
And then discuss if the Carpenter might be.... God.

 

[9Westy9]

Doing harm is fairly straight forward.
Most wrong doers drop their behavior, if you take an 'extreme action'

Now, if you would like to....we could quote the Carpenter....
'Do good unto those who would do harm to you.'
And then discuss if the Carpenter might be.... God.

looks like a dodge to me

 

[Thief]

looks like a dodge to me

Not at all.
The same Fellow was willing to make a knotted whip and scourge His own people.
He drove them all out of the temple....like cattle.

Willing to do harm?...yeah.
Call Him evil?....some did.
Some pushed that notion all the way to His cross.

But then what of those who drove the nails?
What then of the ones who insisted on 'justice'?

Who will stand over you when you surrender your last breath?

Will that same person have what it takes to lead you to heaven?
Or do you have what it takes to circumvent all or any standing in opposition?

 

[9Westy9]

Not at all.
The same Fellow was willing to make a knotted whip and scourge His own people.
He drove them all out of the temple....like cattle.

Willing to do harm?...yeah.
Call Him evil?....some did.
Some pushed that notion all the way to His cross.

But then what of those who drove the nails?
What then of the ones who insisted on 'justice'?

Who will stand over you when you surrender your last breath?

Will that same person have what it takes to lead you to heaven?
Or do you have what it takes to circumvent all or any standing in opposition?

I'll ask again. Why didn't God use a method other than evil to achieve his aims? He could have done whatever he wanted yet he chose evil. Why do you think that is?

 

[Thief]

I'll ask again. Why didn't God use a method other than evil to achieve his aims? He could have done whatever he wanted yet he chose evil. Why do you think that is?

He did choose other methods....

He made a Garden and within it, altered the body and spirit of Man.

He brings forward an occasional prophet.

He gives fair warning and guide lines when He can.

Too bad the occasional lapse in our humanity will prompt a more 'severe application'.

 

[9Westy9]

He did choose other methods....

He made a Garden and within it, altered the body and spirit of Man.

He brings forward an occasional prophet.

He gives fair warning and guide lines when He can.

Too bad the occasional lapse in our humanity will prompt a more 'severe application'.

So does God use evil because he must or because he can?

 

[Thief]

So does God use evil because he must or because he can?

Both.

If a spoken word will do....you get a prophet.
All you gotta do is listen.

If the problem has gelled beyond hope...you get a flood....or a couple of angels sent to burn it to the ground.

I don't think it's a good thing when prophets get nailed.

Picture meeting Him at the Door.
He said something about it.

Picture again, if you were one of His opponents.
Picture again, if you simply think like they did.

I say, if you are allowed to enter, it's because you belong there.

 

[9Westy9]

Both.

So now the question comes down to "why?"

 

[Thief]

So now the question comes down to "why?"

So put yourself in God's place....yes you can.

You've got all these humans running around....
and once a sour behavior takes hold it tends to escalate.

A prophet might be handy, if you find one up for the tour of duty.

But even a skillful prophet can meet with difficulties.

So then, some harsh remedy...and still Man remains hell bent.

After several attempts it becomes futile.
Man at large, having freewill, seems destined to destroy everything...
including himself.

Man is a creature that soils the nest.

When we die...some judgment must be made.
Do you really think heaven would be a place of peace....
if just anyone is allowed to enter?

 

[9Westy9]

So put yourself in God's place....yes you can.

You've got all these humans running around....
and once a sour behavior takes hold it tends to escalate.

A prophet might be handy, if you find one up for the tour of duty.

But even a skillful prophet can meet with difficulties.

So then, some harsh remedy...and still Man remains hell bent.

After several attempts it becomes futile.
Man at large, having freewill, seems destined to destroy everything...
including himself.

Man is a creature that soils the nest.

When we die...some judgment must be made.
Do you really think heaven would be a place of peace....
if just anyone is allowed to enter?

Then why not re-create man into a being that can't commit evil?

 

[Thief]

Then why not re-create man into a being that can't commit evil?

That wouldn't be freewill....nor a reflection of Him.

 

[9Westy9]

That wouldn't be freewill....nor a reflection of Him.

if free will is the ability to choose to do anything then it still doesn't exist

 

[look3467]

Then why not re-create man into a being that can't commit evil?

God did just what you suggested! That was the whole purpose for the coming of the Son of God.
Jesus could commit no evil for in Him is our new creation, don't you know.
If you take Jesus out of the equation you would have just this one existence and after that....
Oblivion of nothingness.

The very question you asked is what the new creation is all about.

Now in Jesus we can become new creatures ourselves where death and evil no longer has any power over us.

Blessings, AJ

 

[9Westy9]

God did just what you suggested! That was the whole purpose for the coming of the Son of God.
Jesus could commit no evil for in Him is our new creation, don't you know.
If you take Jesus out of the equation you would have just this one existence and after that....
Oblivion of nothingness.

The very question you asked is what the new creation is all about.

Now in Jesus we can become new creatures ourselves where death and evil no longer has any power over us.

Blessings, AJ

So what's the point of this life if the next is so much better? Why couldn't/ didn't God just create us in the "new creation"

 

[Thief]

if free will is the ability to choose to do anything then it still doesn't exist

Sounds like you've taken the condition of freewill over the line.

Of course there are limits to your ability.
And therefore limits to your choices.

Like during the hour of your last breath.
The desire to stand up will be there waiting for you.
If you cannot free yourself from your body...you go to the grave.

How much ability do you have?
Are you free?

Even if you succeed, and stand from your body....
It's takes discipline in this world....how much more in the next?

 

[Thief]

So what's the point of this life if the next is so much better? Why couldn't/ didn't God just create us in the "new creation"

Have you heard it said the angels have no free will?
(I don't believe that)

But let's entertain the notion for a moment.
If created in spiritual form....we would be more of a reflection....of God.
And maybe that's why the angels have no freewill.
God cannot disobey Himself.
He is true to Himself.

 

[9Westy9]

Sounds like you've taken the condition of freewill over the line.

Of course there are limits to your ability.
And therefore limits to your choices.

Like during the hour of your last breath.
The desire to stand up will be there waiting for you.
If you cannot free yourself from your body...you go to the grave.

How much ability do you have?
Are you free?

Even if you succeed, and stand from your body....
It's takes discipline in this world....how much more in the next?

So the question is why not have complete freewill? Why do we have only this much? or why doesn't God restrict our freewill a little bit more? Because I'm assuming he can make a better world by restricting free will.

Have you heard it said the angels have no free will?
(I don't believe that)

But let's entertain the notion for a moment.
If created in spiritual form....we would be more of a reflection....of God.
And maybe that's why the angels have no freewill.
God cannot disobey Himself.
He is true to Himself.

so the answer to the question is?