Why can't people just leave the Jews alone?

[Akivah]

I also have strong problems with Muslims calling for the annhilation of Israel...

Can you point me to a post of yours that said this?

 

[Akivah]

That was tried once with Arafat back at Camp David. He was going to get almost everything he wanted including a Palestinian state, but evidently that's not what the Palestinians really want.

Yes, the arabs called the palestinians have demonstrated with their actions what they really want. They were offered their own state at least three times. Their reaction is always the same...attack Israel.

 

[metis]

You're absolutely right, but the problem is, so far in Israel its been so one sided against the Palestinians that its too late to ask the Palestinians to change...

Oh, so Israel supposedly has to change but the Palestinian leadership and supporters can just keep trying to kill more Israeli civilians.

...its time for the Israelis to take the first step to peace, evacuate the settlements, build a wall if they have to, but Palestinians have just as much right to half of Israel as Jews do, we need a two state solution...

Agree with a two-state solution and the wall is already there. Also, every single time that Israel has returned land to the Palestinians, all that it has led to are more attacks against Israeli civilians. After the Oslo Agreement, the very next day Arafat gave a speech bragging how this was another step on the way to the destruction of Israel.

...that there's no getting along with Jews running everything...

And that's not a bigoted statement? BTW, do you have a clue what happened when Jordan ran Jerusalem?

Have your ethnically pure Jewish homeland, and have the common human decency to give the Palestinians half of what they deserve, the country of Israel.

"Ethnically pure"--- what another piece of bigotry coming from you. Common sense should tell you that if things were so bad in Israel, we should see many a million or more Palestinians living in Israel lining up to leave-- except they ain't. Why do you think this is the case, Lyndon? Why have some other groups, such as the Baha'i, moved their headquarters to Israel? Why is it that some Palestinians have voluntarily joined the IDF?

PS Hamas and Abbas will accept peace if you give them half they country as they deserve.

In regards to Hamas, you aren't even close to being correct. Have you ever studied Islam? Do you know anything about a book called the "Hadith"? Do you know what it says in the Hadith about land that is controlled by Muslims? Do you know anything about Hamas' leadership? If you do not understand this and why Hamas will never agree to a peaceful solution over the land, then you do not even get close to understanding what's really at stake here.

 

[Brickjectivity]

The idea that only Jews are human and not gentiles runs contrary to a number of fundamental Jewish principles.

I confirm this is a very important principle both in modern and ancient Judaism, whatever changes have occurred over the centuries its not this. This has been true as far back as records indicate. The Talmud passage brought up before comments upon this verse: "Ye my flock, the flock of my pastures are men." The Talmud emphasizes that the Jews are the flock, therefore a priest is not corrupted by the presence of non Jewish graves since they are not in the flock. Its not indicating who is human but whose corpse will defile the priest.

Many centuries after the verse was published, Jesus commented "I have sheep in other pastures." The Talmud which was written centuries after contained this later opinion by one writer contradicting Jesus opinion, although Jesus was not directly referenced. I see the two opinions as being opposed, but they have nothing to do with whether someone is human.

 

[Lyndon]

Oh, so Israel supposedly has to change but the Palestinian leadership and supporters can just keep trying to kill more Israeli civilians.

Agree with a two-state solution and the wall is already there. Also, every single time that Israel has returned land to the Palestinians, all that it has led to are more attacks against Israeli civilians. After the Oslo Agreement, the very next day Arafat gave a speech bragging how this was another step on the way to the destruction of Israel.

And that's not a bigoted statement? BTW, do you have a clue what happened when Jordan ran Jerusalem?

"Ethnically pure"--- what another piece of bigotry coming from you. Common sense should tell you that if things were so bad in Israel, we should see many a million or more Palestinians living in Israel lining up to leave-- except they ain't. Why do you think this is the case, Lyndon? Why have some other groups, such as the Baha'i, moved their headquarters to Israel? Why is it that some Palestinians have voluntarily joined the IDF?

In regards to Hamas, you aren't even close to being correct. Have you ever studied Islam? Do you know anything about a book called the "Hadith"? Do you know what it says in the Hadith about land that is controlled by Muslims? Do you know anything about Hamas' leadership? If you do not understand this and why Hamas will never agree to a peaceful solution over the land, then you do not even get close to understanding what's really at stake here.

I wriite a reasonable statement, fair to both sides, and this is your response, who's being unreasonable now??

 

[Flankerl]

Claiming that one side has to change but the other doesn't is lots of things, but not fair.

 

[Lyndon]

I never claimed that in fact just the opposite.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

It seems that all of the problems that plague the Jewish people and all the anti-Semitism stems from the fact that people just can't seem to leave the Jews alone, which appears to be all they wanted in the first place. The Greeks tried to conquer them and erase their religion. Didn't work. The Romans tried it, too. They got kicked out of their land for the most part because of it, but it didn't destroy the Jewish people. The Christians and Muslims tried to conquer them, convert them and erase them, too, but that hasn't worked, either. The Jews remain. They're not giving up their religion or their culture. This is apparently a thorn in the side of many, for various reasons (especially religious ones).

I just don't understand why people can't leave them alone and let them have their land and their Temple. The Jews never really were interested in converting others. They tended to have a "live and let live" approach to their religion and culture. They don't complain about the practices of the other people around them. They just carried on doing their own thing. (I think we could all learn from that rather mature approach to things, honestly.)

I just don't get it.

I dont have problems with Jews living under muslim rule.
Or jews having Jewish Land in North America/Europe.

Or Muslims sharing land with Jews from Neturei Karate forming Hybrid Jewish/Muslim land in Palestine with Torah and Quran as Laws for Jews and Muslims.


Perfectly comfortable with such ideas.



Zionism is a complete disaster. They introduced Godless laws, allowed sinful gayparade in the holy land and mocked the Creator in every possible way.



According to Neturei Karta/Karate the zionists are demons sent as punishment against Muslims and Jews.


Guys separate Israel and Jews. No muslim hates Jews. We share monotheism and love for Moses pbuh a figure both beloved by muslims and Jews.
If we hated the Jews we had more than thousands opportunities in the past to massacre them till the last jew.
When Umar r.a captured Jerusalem, why didnt he give the command to slaughter all jews if we hated jews. Or saladin.

Jews knows very well that muslims never had any intention to destroy them till the very last jew.

Western Jews should be thankful to us for saving Eastern Jews. We have protected them since the beginning of islamic empire. But few of Allah's servants are truly thankful.

We must really separate the vile zionism and Jews.

 

[Deidre]

I think if we were to poll either side...both would claim they were merely defending what's theirs, and each side sees the other side, differently. The odd thing of it all is why the US sides with Israel. Not that it should or should not. But, Islam is also an Abrahamic faith, and the elephant in the room is that many US Christians (which the US is still dominated by Christianity) feel a tie with Israel, in a spiritual sense. The news won't ever go over that, but it's just my take.

 

[metis]

I wriite a reasonable statement, fair to both sides, and this is your response, who's being unreasonable now??

You are, and let it be known that you didn't answer one single question nor offered any rebuttal whatsoever. The point is that you simply do not understand many of the important issues there, and your constant use of anti-Israel bigotry is quite obvious.

I would love to discuss this in terms of dharma, and I actually did post a response here along that line but decided to delete it. However, if you want to discuss this topic in terms of dharma, just say the word and we can put that conversation on another thread. The two items I would have you focus in on are "attachments" and "dependence rising" in the context of the Israeli/Palestinian discussion. Interested?

 

[dust1n]

It seems that all of the problems that plague the Jewish people and all the anti-Semitism stems from the fact that people just can't seem to leave the Jews alone, which appears to be all they wanted in the first place..

Isn't this true for many, many populations?

 

[metis]

I never claimed that in fact just the opposite.

You are denying you wrote this in post #80: "You're absolutely right, but the problem is, so far in Israel its been so one sided against the Palestinians that its too late to ask the Palestinians to change,...". [underlining is mine]

 

[Colabomb]

They tended to have a "live and let live" approach to their religion and culture. They don't complain about the practices of the other people around them. They just carried on doing their own thing. (I think we could all learn from that rather mature approach to things, honestly.)

I just don't get it.

While I'm all for letting the Jews and all people live in peace, firmly believe that anti-Semitism is not only a grave sin but ridiculous considering we are the followers of a jewish messiah and his jewish disciples, and generally agree with the basics of your message, this part just makes no sense.

The Hebrew bible is full of criticism of the gentiles, not to mention the great story of (the land of) Israel begins with God commanding Israel to remove the gentile inhabitants from the land he gave them by force.

In many places the scriptures criticise Israel for behaving like gentiles. Isaiah looks forward to the day when all the gentiles give up their gods and worship the one true God in Zion.

The people of Israel had a mission to be a light to the nations reflecting the Glory of the One God to us, and when they were faithful to that mission they rightfully called out the idol worshipping hedonism of my ancestors per their mission.

As a Christian this is part of my history too, and none of this is criticism. If Israel had sat by, quietly minded it's own business and avoided rocking the boat, then they wouldn't have been properly Israel.

 

[psychoslice]

Claiming that one side has to change but the other doesn't is lots of things, but not fair.

As I always say, their as bad as each other.

 

[Lyndon]

You are denying you wrote this in post #80: "You're absolutely right, but the problem is, so far in Israel its been so one sided against the Palestinians that its too late to ask the Palestinians to change,...". [underlining is mine]

That post is in the context that the needed reforms need to come from the Israelis, enough demands have already been made on the Palestinians and nothing in the area of reform is coming from the Israelis.

 

[arthra]

Why have some other groups, such as the Baha'i, moved their headquarters to Israel?

My good friend Metis,

I just wanted to respond to your question whether or not it has anything to do with the topic... The Baha'is first came to Akka in 1868 as it was a penal colony of the Ottoman Empire. and the Baha'is were prisoners of the Sultan... in the course of time they were allowed outside the prison and lived in the area of Akka and later in Haifa across the Bay... The Shrine of the Bab was later built on Mount Carmel beginning around 1909... Actually you could say the "headquarters" of the Baha'i Faith was always in the Haifa-Akka area ... not "moved" there.

 

[metis]

My good friend Metis,

I just wanted to respond to your question whether or not it has anything to do with the topic... The Baha'is first came to Akka in 1868 as it was a penal colony of the Ottoman Empire. and the Baha'is were prisoners of the Sultan... in the course of time they were allowed outside the prison and lived in the area of Akka and later in Haifa across the Bay... The Shrine of the Bab was later built on Mount Carmel beginning around 1909... Actually you could say the "headquarters" of the Baha'i Faith was always in the Haifa-Akka area ... not "moved" there.

Thanks for the correction.

BTW, I went by the Baha'i site there in Haifa and it is gorgeous, at least on the outside! Unfortunately, I didn't have enough time to actually go inside because we got to Haifa late in the afternoon and had to leave early the next morning.

shalom

 

[Sundance]

Be patient, wait it out, their cultural ignorance and bigotry will eventually deteriorate, and then fade.
They are just mislead peoples. They or their children, will come to their senses.

And if they don't...?

 

[Sundance]

Then we wait some more. Culture never stays the same. Progression will happen eventually.

But for how long? For 67 years, the Jewish people have had to fight to keep land, land they were taken from for 3,000 years. Are you honestly telling me any group of people in this situation should wait?

 

[Lyndon]

Sorry but nobody in the real world owns the land their ancestors lived on 2000 years ago, the statue of limitations is way expired on that one.