Why can't people just leave the Jews alone?

[Curious George]

Sorry but nobody in the real world owns the land their ancestors lived on 2000 years ago, the statue of limitations is way expired on that one.

Which is a fair point. But as far as ownership goes, Israel owns the land now.

 

[psychoslice]

Which is a fair point. But as far as ownership goes, Israel owns the land now.

And how did they get all that land ?.

 

[Curious George]

And how did they get all that land ?.

Purchased it largely.

 

[Lyndon]

Like they purchased the west bank and Gaza????

 

[Curious George]

Like they purchased the west bank and Gaza????

Well there were certainly skirmishes which resulted in a loss of land, but yes, most of the land was granted through legal means. I assume you are referring to the 1967 actions, where Israel retaliated to the closing of the canal and the amassing of forces. Of course much land was lost by the surrounding countries through various blunders and treaties prior to the establishment of any Palestinian state.

What exactly is the problem with a country acting in its own defense? Should they have relinquished the lands of which they took possession?

 

[psychoslice]

Purchased it largely.

Who got the money for it ?.

 

[columbus]

Who got the money for it ?.

The legal owners.
Many, if not most, were Syrians. They inherited property originally given to the supporters of the Ottoman s.
Nobody much cared about it and the Muslim owners were thrilled to find buyers.
Tom

 

[psychoslice]

The legal owners.
Many, if not most, were Syrians. They inherited property originally given to the supporters of the Ottoman s.
Nobody much cared about it and the Muslim owners were thrilled to find buyers.
Tom

MMM, there could be truth in that, but I think there's more to it.

 

[columbus]

MMM, there could be truth in that, but I think there's more to it.

Of course there is more to it. But it is still true.
The Jewish people moving there were buying land from the absentee owners, by and large. Naturally they bought the best land. Many Palestinian people were accustomed to using it, even though they didn't own it. That caused trouble.
Then the Jews improved the property. They built stuff and started communities that made the place more attractive. This brought more Palestinians. They often clumped around the Jewish communities because there were jobs and clinics and markets and such.

This is not what happened everywhere or all the time. But it is a big part of the recent history that Muslims completely ignore. They like to pretend that Zionists showed up in 1948 and stole the land. But it was not like that at all.
Tom

 

[psychoslice]

Of course there is more to it. But it is still true.
The Jewish people moving there were buying land from the absentee owners, by and large. Naturally they bought the best land. Many Palestinian people were accustomed to using it, even though they didn't own it. That caused trouble.
Then the Jews improved the property. They built stuff and started communities that made the place more attractive. This brought more Palestinians. They often clumped around the Jewish communities because there were jobs and clinics and markets and such.

This is not what happened everywhere or all the time. But it is a big part of the recent history that Muslims completely ignore. They like to pretend that Zionists showed up in 1948 and stole the land. But it was not like that at all.
Tom

I feel there is some truth in that they stole land from the Palestinians, they believe the land was given to them by god, how convenient, and still this silly idea is carried on.

 

[columbus]

I feel there is some truth in that they stole land from the Palestinians,

There is.
But not very much, really. Certainly nothing like the Muslims say there is.
Tom

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Sorry but nobody in the real world owns the land their ancestors lived on 2000 years ago, the statue of limitations is way expired on that one.

I'm not aware of any "statue of limitations" pertaining to if indigenous people can return to their homeland or not. I'm also not aware of any good argument as why they shouldn't be allowed.

 

[psychoslice]

There is.
But not very much, really. Certainly nothing like the Muslims say there is.
Tom

Thanks, at least you admit there is some hanky panky going on.

 

[Curious George]

I feel there is some truth in that they stole land from the Palestinians, they believe the land was given to them by god, how convenient, and still this silly idea is carried on.

Why do you "feel" this way? Hmm, religion certainly says it was given (and taken away) by god, but this is very different than the legal ownership and sovereignty recognized by other nations.

 

[psychoslice]

Why do you "feel" this way? Hmm, religion certainly says it was given (and taken away) by god, but this is very different than the legal ownership and sovereignty recognized by other nations.

You could be right ?.

 

[RedDragon94]

It seems that all of the problems that plague the Jewish people and all the anti-Semitism stems from the fact that people just can't seem to leave the Jews alone, which appears to be all they wanted in the first place. The Greeks tried to conquer them and erase their religion. Didn't work. The Romans tried it, too. They got kicked out of their land for the most part because of it, but it didn't destroy the Jewish people. The Christians and Muslims tried to conquer them, convert them and erase them, too, but that hasn't worked, either. The Jews remain. They're not giving up their religion or their culture. This is apparently a thorn in the side of many, for various reasons (especially religious ones).

I just don't understand why people can't leave them alone and let them have their land and their Temple. The Jews never really were interested in converting others. They tended to have a "live and let live" approach to their religion and culture. They don't complain about the practices of the other people around them. They just carried on doing their own thing. (I think we could all learn from that rather mature approach to things, honestly.)

I just don't get it.

I heard a conversation today about this very thing except it was more concentrated on the relationship that Jews have with Arabs. This kind of thing has been going on for millenias. What I think people are afraid to ask themselves is where do the Jews belong if not in Israel. Every people group has to come from somewhere.

 

[psychoslice]

I am ashamed of both side quite frankly, why can't they just share the land like decent people, instead of hating each others guts, and all these people call themselves people of God, Ha.

 

[Lyndon]

Well all you people that believe in returning to the land of your ancestors should be heading back to Africa where you come from.

 

[Timothy Bryce]

I would submit that any time you cast a sacred eugenic veil over your bloodline (which jews have always done) and consistently refer to your people as god's chosen people, you are going to **** a lot of people off.

Maybe this longstanding pretension might have placed a role over those few thousand years?

My father's side of the family are all eastern European and I have always noticed that there is very different cultural dynamic to the issues of race and religion to the rest of the developed world.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I don't know if anybody believes me, but I think one reason Israel was formed is that protestantism in the West started hoping for Jews to return to Palestine. This began as far back or farther back than the mid 19th century. I do not say protestants were pushing for it to happen so much as predicting ways in which it must/might/could happen, because many thought that the return of Jesus was predicated upon Palestine's restoration, followed by an attack on it by all the nations all at once. Currently many protestants (in USA and other places) are still waiting for this bit to happen and for Jesus to miraculously appear and personally defend the country called Israel. No wonder that so many are enthralled by Israel's new existence even as they wait for deadly events to unfold ushering in the return of Jesus, and no wonder that the Middle East is such a hotbed right now what with USA getting involved and drawing the attention of the other powerful militias. Obviously if we have a big militia in the Middle East than other players feel like they need to have one.

That being said, I support any country's right to self defence. Its not Israel's fault that we would like all the countries to attack it thus precipitating the return of Jesus.

It is rather weird and not merely unfortunate that this apocalyptic interpretation is so deeply entrenched in many protestant churches in USA, because we are denying that we are another country -- as if every country except for us is going to attack Israel. Obviously the fundamentalist protestant interpretation of this apocalyptic event is skewed a little in our favor, cherry picking the very best of the story for USA. Thus in our own way we cannot leave the Jews alone.