why can't we have a relationship with other men?

[AmbiguousGuy]

you are born with body parts designed for heterosexual use

doing anything else is against there purpose, nothing to do with religion.

100 men are born, 1 is gay, dont tell me there is not an error in his mind, a chemical imbalance or something.

not their failt but it is.

I saw this elephant the other day. He was using his trunk in the most unnatural and perverted way. Clearly an elephant's trunk is designed for reaching down to suck water from a pool, for pulling high branches down to its mouth, for blowing dust across its back.

But doing anything else with a trunk is against its purpose and therefore perverted.

This elephant was PAINTING A PICTURE with it!

It's not his fault for being a pervert, of course. I just feel an urge to go on and on about this elephant's unnatural ways, I guess.

It's not his fault that he's a pervert. But we must admit that he is a pervert if we are to be honest about things.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Please clarify what the purpose of life is?

For whom?

 

[mayuboar]

I saw this elephant the other day. He was using his trunk in the most unnatural and perverted way. Clearly an elephant's trunk is designed for reaching down to suck water from a pool, for pulling high branches down to its mouth, for blowing dust across its back.

But doing anything else with a trunk is against its purpose and therefore perverted.

This elephant was PAINTING A PICTURE with it!

It's not his fault for being a pervert, of course. I just feel an urge to go on and on about this elephant's unnatural ways, I guess.

It's not his fault that he's a pervert. But we must admit that he is a pervert if we are to be honest about things.

twist it turn it do what you must in order to make yourself feel better, how else were you to get past that awkward stage where you questioned yourself and hated yourself for what you are.

instead of admitting it is what it is, you imagine it is ok and created your own new set of rules and morales, even redefines the laws of nature to justify what you do.

whatever makes you sleep better at night, whats a little lie if it helps you look in the mirror again,

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

twist it turn it do what you must in order to make yourself feel better, how else were you to get past that awkward stage where you questioned yourself and hated yourself for what you are.

That's funny. But I think you're right in a way. There are homosexual guys, usually repressed homosexual guys, who go on and on about the perversion of homosexuality. I don't know why they do that. If I were gay, I hope I would simply accept that I am gay and that there's nothing wrong with being gay. Why feel shame about something which is natural?

For myself, I have never hated myself for being heterosexual. It would be like hating myself for eating food or drinking water. I guess I don't understand self-loathing very well.

instead of admitting it is what it is, you imagine it is ok and created your own new set of rules and morales, even redefines the laws of nature to justify what you do.

But I did admit it. An elephant using its truck to paint pictures is a perversion. It is an unnatural use of a part of its body which was clearly not created for that use.

whatever makes you sleep better at night, whats a little lie if it helps you look in the mirror again,

Really, man. There is no shame in homosexuality.

 

[tumbleweed41]

twist it turn it do what you must in order to make yourself feel better, how else were you to get past that awkward stage where you questioned yourself and hated yourself for what you are.

instead of admitting it is what it is, you imagine it is ok and created your own new set of rules and morales, even redefines the laws of nature to justify what you do.

whatever makes you sleep better at night, whats a little lie if it helps you look in the mirror again,

1. Define the "Laws of Nature"
2. Explain where morals and rules come from.

 

[Riverwolf]

slo we are all abnormal then,

No, because there's no "normal" to be ab-ed.

what about pedophiles, where do they come into this, to your way of thinking the poor guys cant help it right.

Correct. But that's involving a second party who's not yet mature, and most pedophiles double as rapists. There's a reason they don't get the "not guilty by reason of insanity" treatment.

Where sexuality is concerned, the second party must always be considered.

they are just poor little inoccent men born with an attraction beyond there control, but its ok because there is no normal so leave them be to wander the school yards and scout halls.

Normalcy is not a determining factor for laws. The existence of victims are.

 

[Riverwolf]

many are comparing to bonobo monkeys, saying they have same sex relations, before you use that coparison you should be aware that bonobo monkeys touch there young, nice comparison.

so if bonobos do it it must be fine is that right, what does it say when you must compare yourself to an ape anyway.

Well... we are apes. ^_^

Sexual relations with budding women used to be common among our ancestors, and marrying children off to older men wasn't uncommon and still happens today.

But there's a reason they're no longer practiced here: the woman in question is often treated not as a person, but as a sex toy. That's what's not okay.

Bonobos, I would guess, don't have the intelligence to make such determinations. We do.

 

[Riverwolf]

you are born with body parts designed for heterosexual use

doing anything else is against there purpose, nothing to do with religion.

100 men are born, 1 is gay, dont tell me there is not an error in his mind, a chemical imbalance or something.

not their failt but it is.

Our bodies weren't "designed" for anything. They just are.

Besides, by your logic, masturbation ought also to be considered abnormal.

no honesty here whatsoever,

Plenty of honesty. We're just recognizing that it's not as simple as you're trying to make it sound.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

1. Define the "Laws of Nature"
2. Explain where morals and rules come from.

People are usually going to just create a set of morals that fit into the lifestyle they've already chosen to lead. I would say that for most of the people I've met, morals come from the desires people have already chosen to indulge.

 

[Latuwr]

Hi Tumbleweed41,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
Thank you for hanging in there with me. I know that it seems that I am being evasive, but some things are not easily explained nor understood. Everyone has their own perspective, and what they all see, seems right to them as it should. The truth is meant for seekers. When seekers sniff truth, they just cannot let it go. It may take years, but, sometimes, it happens overnight.
I believe in both the physical and spiritual fulfillment of the Law. Mankind has absolutely no capacity to keep the Law in a physical sense. We all have inherent weaknesses, tendencies which bring us into conflict with the Law. One man cannot control his impulse to steal. Another man cannot control his desire for sex with his neighbor's wife. Many of us rebel against the command to remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy. I could go on and on, but the point is, we are all dead because we fail to perfectly keep the Law in a physical sense.
Moses exhorts us to choose life, but we all find that we, by our actions, have all chosen death.
Now, why should Mary and the Apostle John escape this death? Am I suggesting that they themselves were perfect? Not at all! We all have sinned, and we all fall short of the glory of ELOHIM! How, then, is it possible for any of us to live? How is it possible the Mary and John are still alive on this earth? What say ye, you practicing homosexuals, can men and women disobey ELOHIM and have the right to life?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

 

[tumbleweed41]

Hi Tumbleweed41,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
Thank you for hanging in there with me. I know that it seems that I am being evasive, but some things are not easily explained nor understood. Everyone has their own perspective, and what they all see, seems right to them as it should. The truth is meant for seekers. When seekers sniff truth, they just cannot let it go. It may take years, but, sometimes, it happens overnight.
I believe in both the physical and spiritual fulfillment of the Law. Mankind has absolutely no capacity to keep the Law in a physical sense. We all have inherent weaknesses, tendencies which bring us into conflict with the Law. One man cannot control his impulse to steal. Another man cannot control his desire for sex with his neighbor's wife. Many of us rebel against the command to remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy. I could go on and on, but the point is, we are all dead because we fail to perfectly keep the Law in a physical sense.
Moses exhorts us to choose life, but we all find that we, by our actions, have all chosen death.
Now, why should Mary and the Apostle John escape this death? Am I suggesting that they themselves were perfect? Not at all! We all have sinned, and we all fall short of the glory of ELOHIM! How, then, is it possible for any of us to live? How is it possible the Mary and John are still alive on this earth? What say ye, you practicing homosexuals, can men and women disobey ELOHIM and have the right to life?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

You have yet to answer my question. But congratulations on many pretty words.

Once again, where do you get your claim that Mary and John avoided physical death?

 

[Father Heathen]

A man has a penis, a woman has a vagina, what more needs to be said honestly.

Oral, anal, frottage and tribadism?

 

[tumbleweed41]

Hi Tumbleweed41, <--Snip-->
Now, how do you and I fit into this fulfillment. How did Mary and the Apostle John fit into this fulfillment? If we all died with Messiah, shall we not also have opportunity to live with HIM?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

So, your spurious assertion that Mary and John, as practicing heterosexuals, never experience physical death is nonsense backed by hyperbole.

 

[Latuwr]

Hi Everyone,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
Shabbat Shalom!
My Messiah Yahushua expressed these words to Martha, the Sister of Lazarus:
John 11:26
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
My Messiah Yahushua spoke these words to Martha knowing that Lazarus was dead, and My Messiah spoke these words to Martha knowing that HE would raise Lazarus from the dead.
When My Messiah Yahushua raised Lazarus from the dead, Lazarus suddenly finds himself again amongst the Living. How many of you can entertain the possibility that Lazarus does now believe in the ONE who raised him from the dead? If Lazarus is a believer, why should any say that it is spurious to teach that HIS Believers continue to live right now? And why should anyone say that it is hyperbole to teach that the Living abide or remain alive?
Thanking in advance any that should be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

My Messiah Yahushua expressed these words to Martha, the Sister of Lazarus:
John 11:26
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
My Messiah Yahushua spoke these words to Martha knowing that Lazarus was dead, and

The Gospel of John was written 75-100 years after Jesus died. Why do you believe that John knew the exact words which Jesus spoke?

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Hi AmbiguousGuy,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
I was blessed to learn biblical Greek from Dr. Norman Gienapp. He was the very best professor that I encountered in my collegiate career. Others, which I do admire were Dr. Earl Fuhrman and Dr. Larry Grothaus. They occupy second place in my heart amongst my college professors.
Dr. Gienapp taught me how to read biblical Greek through the Gospel of John. So I am indeed partial to John who seemed to me be very straight forward in his testimony.
Why do you almost 2 Thousand years later think that John is ambiguous?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

I'm sorry, but if you won't answer my simple question, I'm not interested in a discussion with you. Nothing personal.

 

[F0uad]

Hi AmbiguousGuy,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
I was blessed to learn biblical Greek from Dr. Norman Gienapp. He was the very best professor that I encountered in my collegiate career. Others, which I do admire were Dr. Earl Fuhrman and Dr. Larry Grothaus. They occupy second place in my heart amongst my college professors.
Dr. Gienapp taught me how to read biblical Greek through the Gospel of John. So I am indeed partial to John who seemed to me be very straight forward in his testimony.
Why do you almost 2 Thousand years later think that John is ambiguous?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

This is your reply? :sarcastic

 

[Latuwr]

Hi FOuad,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
Assalamu Alaikum!
Yes, that is my answer. I believe it a waste of time to get into arguments about whether or not any particular author correctly passes on what they heard from someone else. What someone writes should stand for itself. We can take it or leave it. If I decide to take and someone else decides to leave it, why should we argue over what each of us have decided?
This is not to say that I will not make certain judgments about what someone expresses. I will, and I fully expect others to do the same with me. To give you a case in point, Moses commanded this:
Deuteronomy 12:32
32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
And Moses commanded this concerning the eating of camel meat:
Leviticus 11:4
4 Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
If Moses prohibited the eating of camels, how is it that Muhammad could come along and say that it is ok to eat camel meat?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

I believe it a waste of time to get into arguments about whether or not any particular author correctly passes on what they heard from someone else. What someone writes should stand for itself. We can take it or leave it. If I decide to take and someone else decides to leave it, why should we argue over what each of us have decided?

Because we're in a discussion/debate forum.

If Moses prohibited the eating of camels, how is it that Muhammad could come along and say that it is ok to eat camel meat?

It is a waste of time to get into arguments about whether camel meat is OK to eat or not OK to eat. Or over what Moses said vs. what Muhammad said.

Why should we argue over what we each have already decided about the matter?

 

[Latuwr]

Hi AmbiguousGuy,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
You wrote:
Because we're in a discussion/debate forum.
Are you sure about that? How do you know what I have decided about this matter? Are you able to read my mind? And how do you know that we will be able to continue this discussion with each other without interruption? You really do not know, do you? I mean, this is really ambiguous of you, is it not?
Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr