why can't we have a relationship with other men?

[AmbiguousGuy]

Are you sure about that?

Well, it says so right there up at the top: RELIGIOUS FORUMS... Discuss, Compare and Debate Religions in Our Online Community.

But I could be hallucinaing that. Where do you think we are, and what evidence do you have that we're not in a discussion forum?

How do you know what I have decided about this matter?

I don't. But I must say it never occurred to me that you believed us to be elsewhere than a discussion/debate forum. Forgive my presumption. So where do you think we are?

Are you able to read my mind?

Not yet. But if you ever decide to answer my direct questions clearly, sincerely, happily... then I will begin to read your mind.

And how do you know that we will be able to continue this discussion with each other without interruption?

Umm... huh?

 

[Harrytic]

I'm looking at his from a biblical perspective...


God gave us humans urges which he instilled at us from birth. Some are good, some are bad.

Psa 139:13
For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb.

Some of us have been created with major disadvantages
.
Exodus 4:11
And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

John 9: 1-3
And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

The above verses talk of physical limitations, but the bible also shows us that God instills in us other disadvantages as well.

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things.

For many of us, we see some of these urges as immoral or even evil. But God put them in all of us. Most of us he made heterosexual. Some of us he made homosexual. The one thing we all have in common is God expects us to repress those sides of our nature. We have the urge to have heterosexual sex (it's in our DNA), but we’re not allowed to have pre-marital sex or commit adultry. We have the urge to punch someone who angers us, but we’re not allowed to do that. You want to have sex with a member of the same sex? It’s still a no-no. God has given us all different challenges to over come.

God expects you to repress your homosexual tendencies. If not. Well you can look to the bible for the consequences.

Is this fair that God should put some of us through cruel games and not another? Of course not, but God is God and he makes the rules. It’s his game and we have to play by his rules whether we like it or not. Some of us have bigger challenges to overcome than others, but that's the way it is. We are not permitted to be what God created us as. We are expected to fight against our human natures. If we don't play by his rules and we don't overcome his challenges, then we suffer the consequences.

 

[assyrianpride]

I'm looking at his from a biblical perspective...


God gave us humans urges which he instilled at us from birth. Some are good, some are bad.

Psa 139:13
For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb.

Some of us have been created with major disadvantages
.
Exodus 4:11
And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

John 9: 1-3
And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

The above verses talk of physical limitations, but the bible also shows us that God instills in us other disadvantages as well.

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things.

For many of us, we see some of these urges as immoral or even evil. But God put them in all of us. Most of us he made heterosexual. Some of us he made homosexual. The one thing we all have in common is God expects us to repress those sides of our nature. We have the urge to have heterosexual sex (it's in our DNA), but we’re not allowed to have pre-marital sex or commit adultry. We have the urge to punch someone who angers us, but we’re not allowed to do that. You want to have sex with a member of the same sex? It’s still a no-no. God has given us all different challenges to over come.

God expects you to repress your homosexual tendencies. If not. Well you can look to the bible for the consequences.

Is this fair that God should put some of us through cruel games and not another? Of course not, but God is God and he makes the rules. It’s his game and we have to play by his rules whether we like it or not. Some of us have bigger challenges to overcome than others, but that's the way it is. We are not permitted to be what God created us as. We are expected to fight against our human natures. That’s what God wants.

your ideas here are founded on a misunderstanding, but your sense of duty to fulfill god's will is very good. homosexuality is only condemned in the old testament (thus applying only to followers of judaism) but is warned against in the new testament because of the diseases it can cause.

 

[dgirl1986]

Is this fair that God should put some of us through cruel games and not another? Of course not, but God is God and he makes the rules. It’s his game and we have to play by his rules whether we like it or not. Some of us have bigger challenges to overcome than others, but that's the way it is. We are not permitted to be what God created us as. We are expected to fight against our human natures. If we don't play by his rules and we don't overcome his challenges, then we suffer the consequences.

Oh the double edged sword of free will and "divine design"...

 

[Harrytic]

your ideas here are founded on a misunderstanding, but your sense of duty to fulfill god's will is very good. homosexuality is only condemned in the old testament (thus applying only to followers of judaism) but is warned against in the new testament because of the diseases it can cause.

I believe that God is the same today, yesterday and forever. What was considered a sin to him in OT times doesn't suddenly become non-sinful in the NT and still applies to Christians. In fact scripture says:

Matthew 5:18-19 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven


I'd love to agree with you and able to say that the bible does not see homosexuality as sinful. I find it difficult to accept that mankind should have to repress their God-given natures, especially if there is no harm done to any other human.

 

[mayuboar]

Well... we are apes. ^_^

Sexual relations with budding women used to be common among our ancestors, and marrying children off to older men wasn't uncommon and still happens today.

But there's a reason they're no longer practiced here: the woman in question is often treated not as a person, but as a sex toy. That's what's not okay.

Bonobos, I would guess, don't have the intelligence to make such determinations. We do.

it was the gay people here comparing themselves with bonobo's not me.

 

[Riverwolf]

it was the gay people here comparing themselves with bonobo's not me.

I don't recall Jainarayan (the only homosexual I can recall who participated in this thread) comparing himself to bonobos, nor do I recall anyone comparing humans to bonobos in general. Please show me those posts.

Besides, you're the one who said that if bonobos do it, it must be right. You've mistakenly attributed that to what we're saying, but none of us said or intended to imply that.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Besides, you're the one who said that if bonobos do it, it must be right. You've mistakenly attributed that to what we're saying, but none of us said or intended to imply that.

I think I argued that if bonobos do it, then it must not be 'unnatural'.

Bonobos and their behaviors are part of the natural world so far as I can see.

 

[Riverwolf]

I think I argued that if bonobos do it, then it must not be 'unnatural'.

Bonobos and their behaviors are part of the natural world so far as I can see.

Which, of course, is the response to the "unnatural" argument, not whether it's right or not.

 

[Penumbra]

From a non-religious viewpoint, I don't even see why homosexuality is an issue.

It exists in a subset of humans and other animals (in other words, humans are not unique in this regard), it doesn't inherently cause any harm, and just about any argument I see against it is religious and arbitrary rather than logical. I view heterosexual, bisexuality, and homosexuality as being equal in value.

There's even a member here that has said that homosexuality is God's way of finding out who the bigots are. To me that doesn't make much sense but it makes more sense than homosexuality itself being wrong in any way.

I view arguments that use writings from older people against homosexuality in a similar way to how I'd view it if they use the Lord of the Rings as their reference.

 

[dawny0826]

I don't mean like doing orgies and wicked stuff like that. But why can't we make love to people of our gender. I don't get it. I am attracted to men.

Who says that you can't?

I view religion and spirituality as concepts of very personal interpretation. I think you're addressing the wrong audience.

 

[dgirl1986]

I don't recall Jainarayan (the only homosexual I can recall who participated in this thread)

*cough*

comparing himself to bonobos, nor do I recall anyone comparing humans to bonobos in general.

I didnt even know what bonobos was, from what google tells me...its a pygmi chimp

 

[Riverwolf]

*cough*

Are you, as well?

 

[dgirl1986]

Are you, as well?

I am indeed

 

[Riverwolf]

I am indeed

Ah. My apologies, I was unaware. ^_^

Okay, so there are two homosexuals participating in this thread(that I'm aware of), and neither of you guys have compared themselves to bonobos. So, my point still stands. :yes:

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Ah. My apologies, I was unaware. ^_^

Okay, so there are two homosexuals participating in this thread(that I'm aware of), and neither of you guys have compared themselves to bonobos. So, my point still stands. :yes:

And then there are three. Unless bisexuals aren't considered into the equation.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I don't mean like doing orgies and wicked stuff like that. But why can't we make love to people of our gender. I don't get it. I am attracted to men.

It violates the second commandment God gave to man.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

It violates the second commandment God gave to man.

Why do you believe that your God actually spoke in human words which we still have in our possession?

And can you recite your God's commandment for me, about homosexuality? I'd like to examine it.

 

[Riverwolf]

It violates the second commandment God gave to man.

Why did he give it in the first place?

 

[dgirl1986]

It violates the second commandment God gave to man.

Which God and where can this commandment be found