Why Care Whether God Exists Or Not?

[Melissa G]

So you are saying people should invest time in thinking why they invest useless time.
That seems ironically to some point.

Yeah, definately worth spending time thinking on that one

Melissa G

 

[McBell]

Do you want to be the one to make him change who he is?

I cannot 'make' anyone change.
All I can do is assist and then only if they want, not only to change, but falso my assistance.

 

[Nimrauko]

-Rude

Jay enjoys being rude, and disregarding reason.

Now I would like to address the O.T. "Why care whether G-d exists or not"

Well I have several views on why we should care, and why we shouldnt.

I belief in the reform movement of Judaisms view in Tikkun Olam "repairing the world". I dont believe one has to believe in G-d, nor worry if he exists or not. But I do believe people should not murder, should not commit adultery, should respect one another, and take care of human beings NOW here on earth. The belief in a higher being, a G-d if you will, is quite frankly irrelevant. It is a belief in Judaism that if one follows the Noahide laws they will enter heaven. So do what you do and dont worry about what the "Norm" says you should believe.

 

[gnostic]

Lenin, Stalin, Mao, etc -what went on in their minds?

Power. Political power.

Do you think their actions were more than just seeking power for themselves?

Perhaps they saw themselves as gods among men and above the law, but what they seek was still political powers, and think that expanding and subjugating other territories as their rights. They wanted control.

Often, Christians use Lenin, Stalin and Mao against atheism, but when you look at both broad and deep-narrow perspectives, their motives were more than just against religion, Luke_17:2. They were against all who would dare oppose their political convictions, and began systematically eliminating opponents, politically, socially, culturally, militarily...and your point, religiously.

Sorry, but your own perspective is far too superficial and biased. I am not defending these men nor condone their actions, but if you look deeper into their entire policies and agenda, then you would see there's more to it than meet the eyes.

The US were just as oppressive after the WW2 and you seem to be ignoring that part of history. In the late 40s and in the 50s, the Americans government were on political witch-hunt. Any American who oppose them were communists. Some may have been true but many were fabricated. Have you forgotten era of McCarthyism? The US freedom of speech went down the drain.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The belief in a higher being, a G-d if you will, is quite frankly irrelevant. It is a belief in Judaism that if one follows the Noahide laws they will enter heaven. So do what you do and dont worry about what the "Norm" says you should believe.

1. Not to deny God.
2. Not to blaspheme God.
3. Not to murder.
4. Not to engage in incestuous, adulterous, bestial or homosexual relationships.
5. Not to steal.
6. Not to eat a limb torn from a living animal.
7. To set up courts to ensure obedience to the other six laws.

[source]

So "belief in a higher being, a G-d if you will, is quite frankly irrelevant" so long as one does not deny or blaspheme God.

 

[Nimrauko]

So "belief in a higher being, a G-d if you will, is quite frankly irrelevant" so long as one does not deny or blaspheme God.

And your point is? You are a naturalist. So why should I care about your commentary on my faith. I dont. Do you uphold all the commandments? I dont think so. Its not a requirement to be Jewish to get into heaven. And I dont think non-jews all blaspheme g-d. Nor do I think they are denying G-d.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

And your point is? You are a naturalist. So why should I care about your commentary on my faith. I dont.

Apparently you do.

Do you uphold all the commandments? I dont think so.

Thanks for sharing.

Its not a requirement to be Jewish to get into heaven. And I dont think non-jews all blaspheme g-d. Nor do I think they are denying G-d.

Nimrauko, seriously, what are you babbling about?

For you to claim that

"belief in a higher being, a G-d if you will, is quite frankly irrelevant" so long as one does not deny or blaspheme God​

is simply inane.

Parenthetically, I know nothing about your faith, but I do know that disdainfully counterposing naturalism to Judaism is pathetically ignorant. Maimonides has been characterized as a religious naturalist, and religious naturalism stood at the core of classical Kaplanian Reconstructionism. Respect for naturalism was central to the polydoxy of Rabbi Reines and to the wonderful Mishkan T’filah being introduced by the URJ.

Before posturing as a voice of Judaism you might wish to first learn a bit more about it.

 

[Luke_17:2]

Power. Political power.

Well, maybe the Catholic Popes wanted only that, as well. Maybe that's all there was to it for anyone.

Do you think their actions were more than just seeking power for themselves?

You know there was more to it.

Perhaps they saw themselves as gods among men and above the law,

Well, Hitler did.

Often, Christians use Lenin, Stalin and Mao against atheism, but when you look at both broad and deep-narrow perspectives, their motives were more than just against religion, Luke_17:2. They were against all who would dare oppose their political convictions, and began systematically eliminating opponents, politically, socially, culturally, militarily...and your point, religiously.

They were against all who opposed their Atheistic ideaology.

Sorry, but your own perspective is far too superficial and biased. I am not defending these men nor condone their actions, but if you look deeper into their entire policies and agenda, then you would see there's more to it than meet the eyes.

Right back at you.

The US were just as oppressive after the WW2 and you seem to be ignoring that part of history.

If you're talking about the internnment of Japanese, the I'm telling you that I don't ignore it because I 100% support it.

Anyway, even if I didn't, it's nothing compared to the hell that those men caused.

In the late 40s and in the 50s, the Americans government were on political witch-hunt. Any American who oppose them were communists.

You've been reading too much crap, and not enough history. Watching too much Holywood, and not thinking enough.

People such as the Rosenbergs, Lee, White, etc. were all communists; and had commited treason against the United States by acting as agents for the Soviet Union. I remember my parents listening to those hearings (yes, I'm that old), and every single one of those who were brought before Congress pleaded the 5th: you might as well say, with immunity, "I'm guilty".

Some may have been true but many were fabricated. Have you forgotten era of McCarthyism? The US freedom of speech went down the drain.

Haven't forgotten the McCarthy: was a great man. Anti-communist, and pro-American so liberals hate him.

Treason went down the drain. But, for liberals, that's the same as freedom of speech; so they paint it as such.

 

[Nimrauko]

Apparently you do.

Thanks for sharing.

Nimrauko, seriously, what are you babbling about?

For you to claim that

"belief in a higher being, a G-d if you will, is quite frankly irrelevant" so long as one does not deny or blaspheme God​

is simply inane.

Parenthetically, I know nothing about your faith, but I do know that disdainfully counterposing naturalism to Judaism is pathetically ignorant. Maimonides has been characterized as a religious naturalist, and religious naturalism stood at the core of classical Kaplanian Reconstructionism. Respect for naturalism was central to the polydoxy of Rabbi Reines and to the wonderful Mishkan T’filah being introduced by the URJ.

Before posturing as a voice of Judaism you might wish to first learn a bit more about it.

Thank you very much for showing how much of a hypocrite you really are
Firstly, Reconstructionist Judaism is pure B.S as is "Messianic Judaism". Secondly there is Judaism and Judaism alone. So mixing Naturalism and Judaism in my eyes is blasphemy. So before you go judging me, you dont know a thing about me. You constantly insult me. So who is the bigger man? Certainly not you. So take your preconceived notions of me and stuff them.

 

[Sunstone]

**MOD POST**

I do not care who started it, but these personal attacks will end right here.

You can critique each other's ideas all you want, but do not personally attack each other.

If you cannot abide by that rule get out of this thread now.
​

 

[logician]

Try the ignore button.

 

[gnostic]

If you're talking about the internnment of Japanese, the I'm telling you that I don't ignore it because I 100% support it.

Anyway, even if I didn't, it's nothing compared to the hell that those men caused.

I am not talking about the Japaneses. I am talking what US did to their own citizens. I am talking about the McCarthyism era.

There were a lot of fabrication and false charges of US citizens being laid against them, of being communist sympathisers.

People such as the Rosenbergs, Lee, White, etc. were all communists; and had commited treason against the United States by acting as agents for the Soviet Union.

I didn't say that all were false. I did say some charges of Communists or sympathisers were true, but many weren't. Citiizens weren't allow to criticise the way government run thing. I suggest you re-read it.

Any American who oppose them were communists. Some may have been true but many were fabricated.

Treason went down the drain. But, for liberals, that's the same as freedom of speech; so they paint it as such.

I find your comment purely illogical. If you're really a communist, you can't be liberal.

You can be liberal without being Communists. Liberals love their freedom, communists don't. That's what I find illogical with your argument.

Being slight to the left, don't make you're communist. And being slightly to right, don't make you fascist. Do all Americans twist thing to either extremity of politics?

You've been reading too much crap, and not enough history. Watching too much Holywood, and not thinking enough.

Yeah, there were lot of Hollywood crap in the 40s and 50s. There were hundred war movies portraying Americans GIs were all heroes. The only heroes in the war. There were nothing about Brits or Frenchs or the Russians who also fought German armies. It would seem that Americans had single-handedly won WW2.

 

[methylatedghosts]

EDIT EDIT: Woops - just keeping safe from big bad mr stoney sun! Was gonna comment on rudeness but I'll leave you guys at it!

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Firstly, Reconstructionist Judaism is pure B.S as is "Messianic Judaism". Secondly there is Judaism and Judaism alone. So mixing Naturalism and Judaism in my eyes is blasphemy.

OrthoDeform is such an enlightened perspective ... :yes:

 

[angellous_evangellous]

***MOD ADVISORY***

Please stay on topic and refrain from personal comments. A rude personal comment is directed towards the person. Comments on topic are directed towards ideas which are expressed in posts.

Thanks

 

[Voltaire]

Lets say you get in a car, you turn on the engine fasten your seatbelt, maybe turn it to your favorite radio station. You can make decisions whilst driving, such as whether or not to let the person who is signaling over get into your lane or not. Or to answer your phone when your friend calls or not. Even decisions as important as whether you should drive drunk and obey the speed limit. Though through all these choices and all these options you forgot to remember the most important choice of all. Where are you going? That's like knowing if god exists or not. Having a religion changes lives. No joke. It manipulates, dictates and evaluates the lives of millions. If one is religious they have to live their life by a certain code. A code of ethics, morals and life decisions. This changes lives incredibly and one can not be truly religious without knowing if they believe their religion of not. It's not just hypocritical but impossible. Now on the other hand, one who isn't religious like myself has to come to face a few facts. If there is a god you are in a manner of speaking, screwed. You are going to hell to burn and be tortured every second for all of eternity (which might i add is a very long time). So if you don't decide you live a life on a needle point of indecision. The belief in god can change lives in hundreds of ways. So before you die one must be secure. Secure in the knowledge of one of two things. That you will go to heaven or hell and either live a life of happiness and peace or an eternity of torture and pain. So yes caring whether god is real or not is one of the most important things in one's life. So do yourself a favor, choose to follow god or choose to follow your own way, either way, make a choice or just go on living.

 

[Sunstone]

Lets say you get in a car, you turn on the engine fasten your seatbelt, maybe turn it to your favorite radio station. You can make decisions whilst driving, such as whether or not to let the person who is signaling over get into your lane or not. Or to answer your phone when your friend calls or not. Even decisions as important as whether you should drive drunk and obey the speed limit. Though through all these choices and all these options you forgot to remember the most important choice of all. Where are you going? That's like knowing if god exists or not. Having a religion changes lives. No joke. It manipulates, dictates and evaluates the lives of millions. If one is religious they have to live their life by a certain code. A code of ethics, morals and life decisions. This changes lives incredibly and one can not be truly religious without knowing if they believe their religion of not. It's not just hypocritical but impossible. Now on the other hand, one who isn't religious like myself has to come to face a few facts. If there is a god you are in a manner of speaking, screwed. You are going to hell to burn and be tortured every second for all of eternity (which might i add is a very long time). So if you don't decide you live a life on a needle point of indecision. The belief in god can change lives in hundreds of ways. So before you die one must be secure. Secure in the knowledge of one of two things. That you will go to heaven or hell and either live a life of happiness and peace or an eternity of torture and pain. So yes caring whether god is real or not is one of the most important things in one's life. So do yourself a favor, choose to follow god or choose to follow your own way, either way, make a choice or just go on living.

Welcome to the Forum, Voltaire!

Sounds to me like your first post is disingenuous. Are you really as non-religious as you profess to be?

 

[MoonWater]

Lets say you get in a car, you turn on the engine fasten your seatbelt, maybe turn it to your favorite radio station. You can make decisions whilst driving, such as whether or not to let the person who is signaling over get into your lane or not. Or to answer your phone when your friend calls or not. Even decisions as important as whether you should drive drunk and obey the speed limit. Though through all these choices and all these options you forgot to remember the most important choice of all. Where are you going? That's like knowing if god exists or not. Having a religion changes lives. No joke. It manipulates, dictates and evaluates the lives of millions. If one is religious they have to live their life by a certain code. A code of ethics, morals and life decisions. This changes lives incredibly and one can not be truly religious without knowing if they believe their religion of not. It's not just hypocritical but impossible. Now on the other hand, one who isn't religious like myself has to come to face a few facts. If there is a god you are in a manner of speaking, screwed. You are going to hell to burn and be tortured every second for all of eternity (which might i add is a very long time). So if you don't decide you live a life on a needle point of indecision. The belief in god can change lives in hundreds of ways. So before you die one must be secure. Secure in the knowledge of one of two things. That you will go to heaven or hell and either live a life of happiness and peace or an eternity of torture and pain. So yes caring whether god is real or not is one of the most important things in one's life. So do yourself a favor, choose to follow god or choose to follow your own way, either way, make a choice or just go on living.

Welcome aboard. You seem to assume that being Atheist is the only way to "live your own life" and that if God exists he will be of the abrahamic kind damning to hell all non-believers. However this may or may not be the case. In my view religion for the religious becomes apart of how one "lives their own life" and my personal belief is that the Gods are above such things as good and evil and sin and judgement. To me the Gods are more like mentors or teachers. If we want them to teach us and guide us then they will and if not they will leave us alone. I don't believe that any of them would or could damn someone to an eternal torture chamber simply because they choose another teacher or choose to learn on their own. But then this is all my belief. The main point was as state above that you assume that if God exists he would damn you to hell for not believing. Which is possible but it could also be that God would judge you on action instead, or wouldn't judge you at all. When it comes to God anything is POSSIBLE especially since there's no way for us to know if he/she/it/they even exist let alone the nature of such a force or being.

 

[Storm]

If there is a god you are in a manner of speaking, screwed. You are going to hell to burn and be tortured every second for all of eternity (which might i add is a very long time).

Pascal's Wager is a sucker's bet.

 

[McBell]

Pascal's Wager is a sucker's bet.

Yes it is.
But it is such a nice last resort to make quota with.